Why do people worship images/objects?

[Riverwolf]

Something I always found peculiar is the worship of images and other man made objects. I don't quite understand the reason/purpose of this so I'd like someone to offer some insight. If I log on to google images then print out a picture of (Enter your God here) on my printer and put it on my wall, isn't it still just a picture? Or am I missing the point in which it transforms into something spiritual/holy/Divine? I've seen people drop down on their knees and worship statues, photos and other material things in the most zealous way, but why?

The image/statue itself isn't what's being worshiped; the God behind it is.

If, while I'm praying at a Temple, someone comes in and starts trying to break the statue of the god I'm praying to at the moment, I'd continue praying, because it's not the statue, which is man-made, that I'm worshiping.

 

[Riverwolf]

Fatima, but the Quran also says the gods of the Pagans are Jinn. And that the Polytheists of ancient times worshipped Jinn in preference to Allah. So really all it means is that Muslims left the gods of their forefathers for the god of Abraham, but how do you know the gods they left behind, the Jinn, aren't as powerful or more powerful then Allah?

, because Im Muslim

Did you expect any other response? (Fatima, I don't think you could have given a better response.)

For the same reason, I believe that Virat Purusha is greater than Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, and that there is a Reality greater even than That. For the same reason Vaishnavites know that Vishnu is greater than Shiva, and that Shaivites know that Shiva is greater than Vishnu.

 

[Riverwolf]

It's just a tool to assist with concentration, not actually praying/worshiping the statue itself not sure whats hard to understand. It's like saying that Muslims are praying to the carpets they kneel on and are worshiping the air or the ideas in their mind. Or that Catholics are praying to their hands.

Hey! Hindus were doing namaskara long before Jesus was born! :tuna:

 

[Breathe]

Neither did they , Arabs thought that the statues were means to be closer to ALlah:Quran (39:3)

But icons are not 'protectors and helpers' in that sense. They are not mediators like entities, they are like telephones to the Divine. Not a call-centre.

And btw, what are you talking about? What icons ? and what do you mean by passing it as a wisdom? I dont get a word from it

What icons? Whatever ones. I wrote from my perspective.

By passing it off as wisdom, I mean getting a total misunderstanding on why people choose to venerate icons and trying to show how it was wise to throw them into the trash, whereas all I see from it is a terrible understanding of the purpose of icons.

Hope this helps.

 

[.lava]

The only difference is what the person see in it. I don't see one, though I was just explaining how most Pagans and other who use Statues within Worship see it ^_^

OK thank you for explaining

.

 

[Onkara]

Personally the problem is when we think the icon can do us harm, as if some how we will be estranged from the divine. That is imagination. It has been already stated that no icon worshippers see the icon as divine itself, rather a way to channel their thoughts and devotion towards the divine. There is no obligation to use them. Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita does not enforce it, rather points out that it is more difficult because we are generally focused on our material being i.e. as being a body in a world full of other objects, due to miss the omnipresent Lord which permeates everything everywhere:

The Holy Lord said:
Those who, fixing their mind on Me,
Worship steadfast, with supreme faith,
It is My opinion that they
Are thus the best versed in yoga. (2)

They worship the Unperishing,
Unspeakable, Unmanifest,
Omnipresent, Unthinkable
Unchangeable, Immovable– (3)

Having subdued all the senses,
And even-minded ev’rywhere,
Engaged in the welfare of all–
Verily they reach Me alone. (4)

Greater is their trouble whose minds
Are set on the Unmanifest;
For the Unmanifest is hard
For the embodied ones to reach. (5)

My path to remember divine through out the day, indifferent to the use of icons or aids or of others paths.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Oh okey, I thought you meant by icons something like that >>> lool

Did you expect any other response? (Fatima, I don't think you could have given a better response.)

Hey riverworlf dont be happy so soon ,what I meant by Im a muslim is that the topic is the most basic thing in my religion therefore proofs are too much to enumerate, I thought it was clear ( It would have been for someone who read a bit about Islam ) but Ill have to explain myself :

Okey Odion since it seems you loved my first story I have a cutest one for you . I have to say, I like funny proofs better than boring one so try to be patient a bit with me please

1) At the time of the beginning of Islam, tribes started embracing it little by little. However, they still had fear for their statues in their heart.

So the prophet sallahu 'alayhi wassalam sent two of his companions to one of the tribes so they can announce their Islam, when they arrived people gathered around them waiting to see them breaking their statues. They were very scared, one of the companions told tthe other : " check this out " , so he broke the statue and falled down and started giggling like if he was touched by Jinn, and evryone panicked and started yalling: " Oh My God, the God took revenge from him!! " , he then stood up and explained to them that those Gods can do nothing to people without the permission of ALlah azza wajjal , and verses came focusing on this point.

2) And this:

And from there derived a proverb saying that whoever is urined on by a fox cant be called a God.

3) And this:

Umar IBn al Khattab the second khalifah of the prophet sallahu 'alayhi wassalam before he reverted, had a little statue that he worshiped. His kids once took it while he was sleeping and throwed it in a trash, the second day he went searching it and found it, he was very angry and thought his god will take his revenge. His children did the same thing for 2 or 3 nights, until he said that if his god cannot even protefct himself than how can it protect his servant. So he went to the prophet sallahu 'alayhi wassalam and announced his reverting.

And if you ever read Quran ( have you ever read it? ) you'll find hundreds of verses where Allah azza wajjal call statues worshippers to reason

Something like this ( Quran : 37)

83. And, verily, among those who followed his [N�h's (Noah)] way (Isl�mic Monotheism) was Ibr�him (Abraham).84. When he came to his Lord with a pure heart [attached to All�h Alone and none else, worshipping none but All�h Alone true Isl�mic Monotheism, pure from the filth of polytheism].
85. When he said to his father and to his people: "What is it that which you worship?
86. "Is it a falsehood �liha (gods) other than All�h that you seek?
87. "Then what do you think about the Lord of the 'Alam�n (mankind, jinns, and all that exists)?"
88. Then he cast a glance at the stars (to deceive them),
89. And he said: "Verily, I am sick (with plague. He did this trick to remain in their temple of idols to destroy them and not to accompany them to the pagan's feast)."
90. So they turned away from him, and departed (for fear of the disease).
91. Then he turned to their �liha (gods) and said: "Will you not eat (of the offering before you)?
92. "What is the matter with you that you speak not?"
93. Then he turned upon them, striking (them) with (his) right hand.
94. Then they (the worshippers of idols) came, towards him, hastening.
95. He said: "Worship you that which you (yourselves) carve?
96. "While All�h has created you and what you make!"
97. They said: "Build for him a building (it is said that the building was like a furnace) and throw him into the blazing fire!"
98. So they plotted a plot against him, but We made them the lowest.

But I guess the most important proof I could give you, is that you bring a statue and I try to break it and then we must see if something happens to me or not, that would the ultimost proof to see who's stronger ALlah azza wajjal the creator of everything, or the statues "wich you youselfs carve?". But since it is impossible in our case, we'll stick to reasonable proofs only Inshallah.

I hope you dont end up telling me that I dont know how to debate and that Im not open minded, like someone told me yesterday, while all I do is to bring proofs and assist them with Quran and Sunnah, and so should you do

Best regards
Fatima Zahrae

 

[Onkara]

Hi Fatima
Does it worry Muslims in general about what others do e.g. carving icons, or how non-muslims are judged when they die? Or are you simply explaining the Islamic position? It sounds like you are debating the turth you see in the quran and that non-muslims should do the same, which strikes me as a different topic:

while all I do is to bring proofs and assist them with Quran and Sunnah, and so should you do

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

When Islam rules a country, everyone is free to worship any icons they want in their temples, what Im talking about is the principle of Islam towards those icons, for example when the companions broke the statues it was because that tribe accepted Islam so they had to be purified from all icons.

And Allah knows best
Hope its clear

Best regards

 

[Onkara]

Hi Fatima
That is clear and it is nice to know that Muslims (Islam countries) can accept others choice in worship. I can see the Islamic point of view

Perhaps we can continue to explore the OP question:

.. but why?

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

I may answer that question this way:

The human being in its nature, is weak ( not morally but physically , some like to yall here: "Oh I hate when religion says human beings are weak " lol everyone knows we're physically weak), he gets ill, he got troubles in his family, with people, he may involve in dangerous situations , anyway life is full of troubles, and humans are in great need of help that a human being like themselves cannot do.

So the need for help is part of his nature, those who worship icons beleive theres a powerful God ( as explained by Odion) but they believe that they are not worth to call him for their needs directly. However, if they the humans are not worth calling him then how a statue made by their own hands be worther than them.

In Islam , we are taught that each one must call his Lord directly. Do you know that we are not even allowed to make prayers throught the prophet sallalahu alayhi wassalam himself ?, i.e something like Oh Allah by the mercy of your prophet help me with such and such


In Quran ( 2:186) :

[SIZE=+1]186. And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad

) concerning Me, then (answer them), I am indeed near (to them by My Knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright.[/SIZE]

In the translation you may see ( answer them ) into brackets , thats the work of the translator. While in arabic, whenevr Allah says something to muslims, he says ; OH Muhammad , tell the believers to do such and such , except for this particular verse where in the original Quran it says ; if my servants ask you concerning me, then I am near , without "tell them", as a sign that theres no obstacle between the servant and his Lord thanks to Allah.

In Islam, each is worth to ask his Lord directly, because thats how Allah loves to adressed.

I hope it was clear

Best regards

 

[Kerr]

Something I always found peculiar is the worship of images and other man made objects. I don't quite understand the reason/purpose of this so I'd like someone to offer some insight. If I log on to google images then print out a picture of (Enter your God here) on my printer and put it on my wall, isn't it still just a picture? Or am I missing the point in which it transforms into something spiritual/holy/Divine? I've seen people drop down on their knees and worship statues, photos and other material things in the most zealous way, but why?

To my knowledge they don´t worship the object itself but rather what it represents. Basically it is used as a tool for worship and not a target of worship. At last that is the impression I get... and to be fair it is hard to generalize.

 

[rusra02]

Something I always found peculiar is the worship of images and other man made objects. I don't quite understand the reason/purpose of this so I'd like someone to offer some insight. If I log on to google images then print out a picture of (Enter your God here) on my printer and put it on my wall, isn't it still just a picture? Or am I missing the point in which it transforms into something spiritual/holy/Divine? I've seen people drop down on their knees and worship statues, photos and other material things in the most zealous way, but why?

The Bible unrelentingly condemns worship of images or idols. God commanded the Israelites not to form images as objects of veneration and worship them. Among the Ten Commandments are found these words: “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them" (Exodus 20:4-6)
Psalm 135:15-18 says "The idols of the nations are silver and gold,The work of the hands of earthling man. A mouth they have, but they can speak nothing; Eyes they have, but they can see nothing; Ears they have, but they can give ear to nothing. Also there exists no spirit in their mouth. Those making them will become just like them, Everyone who is trusting in them."
False worship, including idol worship, is promoted by Satan. Satan blinds people with lies and false religion. Worshipers of idols are actually, and usually unknowingly, giving worship to Satan. 1 Corinthians 10: 14,19-21 "Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from idolatry..What, then, am I to say? That what is sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No; but I say that the things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. you cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons."

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Does it mean christians contradict their own bibles?

 

[Riverwolf]

So the need for help is part of his nature, those who worship icons beleive theres a powerful God ( as explained by Odion) but they believe that they are not worth to call him for their needs directly.

Uh, that position was never given, as it's not one that's held. I'm not so worthless that I can't call upon the Greatest Friend if I need Him.

Like I said, if I was praying at a Hindu Temple, and somebody came in and broke the statue I was bowing before at the moment, I'd continue to pray.

Think of it this way: Muslims prostrate in the direction of Mecca, right? Is Mecca being worshiped? Is the direction being worshiped?

However, if they the humans are not worth calling him then how a statue made by their own hands be worther than them.

I call God alone, and statues help me focus, especially on an aspect of God that's relevant at the moment.

Images can also serve as good reminders. For example, I have a picture of Lord Ganesha, the aspect of God that removes obstacles, in my entryway. Every time I leave the house or return, I bow in the direction of that picture. The purpose is to remind me that this house is not my own, but God's. The reason Lord Ganesha is used is because he also serves as a Gatekeeper of sorts to the divine; most Hindus venerate him before venerating any other deity.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

To my knowledge they don´t worship the object itself but rather what it represents. Basically it is used as a tool for worship and not a target of worship. At last that is the impression I get... and to be fair it is hard to generalize.

Yes, I guess that what Odion was trying to explain, therefore you may read in Quran (23):

82. They said: "When we are dead and have become dust and bones, shall we be resurrected indeed?83. "Verily, this we have been promised, we and our fathers before (us)! This is only the tales of the ancients!"
84. Say: "Whose is the earth and whosoever is therein? If you know!"
85. They will say: "It is All�h's!" Say: "Will you not then remember?"
86. Say: "Who is (the) Lord of the seven heavens, and (the) Lord of the Great Throne?"
87. They will say: "All�h." Say: "Will you not then fear All�h (believe in His Oneness, obey Him, believe in the Resurrection and Recompense for each and every good or bad deed)."
88. Say "In Whose Hand is the sovereignty of everything (i.e. treasures of each and everything)? And He protects (all), while against Whom there is no protector, (i.e. if All�h saves anyone none can punish or harm him, and if All�h punishes or harms anyone none can save him), if you know." [Tafsir Al-Qurtub�, Vol. 12, Page 145]
89. They will say: "(All that belongs) to All�h." Say: "How then are you deceived and turn away from the truth?"
90. Nay, but We have brought them the truth (Isl�mic Monotheism), and verily, they (disbelievers) are liars.
91. No son (or offspring or children) did All�h beget, nor is there any il�h (god) along with Him; (if there had been many gods), behold, each god would have taken away what he had created, and some would have tried to overcome others! Glorified be All�h above all that they attribute to Him!
92. All-Knower of the unseen and the seen! Exalted be He over all that they associate as partners to Him!

When they were asked who is the Lord of universe they would say Allah, and when they are in great distress they do not turn to no one but Allah, but when they are in ease they worship partners with Him, and thats why Allah azza wajjal blame them for that. I.e they believe Allah is the all powerful, yet they worship partners with Him that do not bring neither harm nor benefit to them

 

[Kerr]

Yes, I guess that what Odion was trying to explain, therefore you may read in Quran (23):




When they were asked who is the Lord of universe they would say Allah, and when they are in great distress they do not turn to no one but Allah, but when they are in ease they worship partners with Him, and thats why Allah azza wajjal blame them for that. I.e they believe Allah is the all powerful, yet they worship partners with Him that do not bring neither harm nor benefit to them

I am not sure I buy that.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

? Who said I was selling it?

 

[Kerr]

It was more of an expression that I don´t think it is true then that I consider it something I have to "buy" .

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

I know its an expression