Why do you dislike Islam?

[Epic Beard Man]

What is Islam

"The word “Islam” actually means “submission to God.” Therefore, “a Muslim is one who strives to submit to God.”

http://christiananswers.net/islam.html

 

[columbus]

How is it culturally primitive?

Gender equality, representative government, human rights, these are all antiMuslim concepts.
The problem with Islam is that anything unQuranic is "innovation" and that is unIslamic. Islamic culture can only be improved by getting rid of the idea that the Quran and Muhammad are perfect and changeless.
But Muslims will kill you for saying that if they can.
Tom

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think their devotion is admirable. Their prayer life is something we should aspire to. But I worry about the God they are praying to. is he real. Mohhammed. some of the ideas he has are fundamentalist lunacy.

Well for one, Allah is just the Arabic name of "The God" or God for short. Even Christian Arabs refer to God as Allah and it is even in the Arabic Bible. Some Jews even refer to God as Allah (Arab speaking Jews but this maybe be uncommon considering there is name common name HA'Shem).

Regarding if he is real well that is a question of faith that I cannot answer....If you yourself believe in God then surely you do not disagree with the following verse:


"In the name of God, the infinitely Compassionate and Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of all the worlds.
The Compassionate, the Merciful."

Surah Al-Fatihah

https://sufism.org/origins/quran-islam/quranic-chapters/the-fatiha-2

If you yourself believe God is the author of this universe then surely you do not disagree with what was dictated to Muhammad in the above verse

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I flipped through an English translation of the Koran a couple of times to see that it seems to support very violent and sexist motives. I like Islamic art and I've seen intelligent quotes from Islamic philosophers but the Koran is very demeaning to many people. It's a similar problem I have with a good portion of the Bible actually, except the Bible is less violent and more based on absolute faith.

The pillars are something that I always appreciated about Islam though.

I think you ought to have this conversation with an Arabic speaking Muslim believe it or not there are like several meanings for one word. For example, Alamin in English could mean universe but it also could mean other things like planets, atoms, matter, etc there is several meanings but you have to put these verses in context. But I could understand your critique.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Great comments guys! I'll revisit tomorrow but keep em coming!

 

[sayak83]

I disagree. There are members of various faith in all Muslim countries, now, how they're treated I cannot say since I've never been any of them. But then again define liberty. Liberty to proselytize?

They are not treated well.
Liberty to freely express views on Islam. Liberty of Muslims to change their religion. Liberty to express liberal views on Islam. Liberty to protest conservative practices. Liberty to practice own religion free of harassment and persecution. Etc.

 

[Spiderman]

At the mosque I prayed at only men were allowed. That's too misogynistic.

I also don't like how Islam produces strict theocracies that force a dress code or stone adulterers or cut off heads and hands. How often do Muslims stone adulterers or cut off heads and hands compared to Jews or Christians?

I'm trying to think of an example in my lifetime of Jews or Christians stoning someone they death. I can't think of any.

 

[Spiderman]

And yes, cutting off heads and stoning adulterers was the practice of Muhammad, so I'd say that behavior is truly Muslim.

Most Muslims don't do that , but Muhammad was violent, intolerant, and extreme, so the Muslims that are living the faith the best are the ones who follow the example of the founder.

 

[RoaringSilence]

Imagine , if the entire world converts to islam.. what would the world look like.. , the first thing to die would be the desire to have babies. currently muslims believe they re spreading the religion by having babies ..once they get the whole world converted then no need to spread religion...just wait for the judgement day and serve in this life and hereafter ...why even bother having children and making them slaves too.

hereafter is also tension , coz you get more than one wifes in jannat ..that will certainly create a discouraging atmosphere for women in jannat . so all in all i like the world with all its colors.

 

[gottalovemoses]

If you yourself believe God is the author of this universe then surely you do not disagree with what was dictated to Muhammad in the above verse

Yeah but I'm not sure we are praying to the same God. As a Christian I believe I am praying to the one and only real God.

 

[Kemosloby]

It would be easier to say what I do like about Islam.

 

[Grandliseur]

Lately I've been annoyed by some of the threads popping up using links regarding the behaviors of other Muslims from across the world or the behaviors of extremist Muslims who commit terrorism justifying their action using doctrine. So I'm curious and wanted to discuss/debate some of the personal issues some people have regarding Islam. I'm not talking about verses but what are your personal issues with Islam and why the continuing issues regarding Islam. As I've told one member, when I came back I started my disagreement with Islamic theology regarding pre-determinism. My disagreement was purely philosophical other than that I have no personal issues with Islam other than a few philosophical/theological concepts I just disagree with. So I wanted to create a thread and allow people to vent their frustrations out here and hopefully correct some errors. I also hope some RF Muslims join in and perhaps answer some issues whether theological or otherwise.

Where I lived in Europe, I had predominantly Muslim neighbors. Some were polite and nice, others aloof, and others again not so nice. This is probably standard for neighbors.Some were from Somalia, Lebanon, maybe Afghanistan, South Eastern Europe, etc.. However, one common denominator was that they kept apart from living in the culture they moved into.

However, this large influx of Muslims (one of which threatened me, when I tried to be helpful, with, "In five years, this will be under Shariah law, and predominantly governed by Muslim" (Paraphrased)) does not integrate into the cultures that they moved into. They keep very much apart. Their marriage customs are kept under Muslim law, and they refuse to let the law of the land govern them. Their girls are not free to fall in love with the people of the land and marry outside Islam.

In some neighbor countries, they (seems to be the refugees) rape and do evil frequently. They seem to think that because the girls in Europe may wear what they think is a sexually revealing dress code not permitted girls in Muslim countries that they can just rape them and force themselves on these girls.

They are going to force Europe to forbid by law all religion, they are going to force something to happen so that Muslim in Europe will be at a growing disadvantage if they do not learn to live in the cultures they have invaded. Already, the sentiment is turning so that some countries are becoming very strict on whom they permit to enter their countries.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

How is it culturally primitive?

Do you understand it is because of Islam we have a resurgence of philosophy, math, the sciences etc. But I, along with my parents, parents, would disagree on being culturally primitive I mean, what about the trans-atlantic slave trade and its justification using the Christian Bible? millions of humans were enslaved and forced to convert or die. Not saying this is not in Islamic history but Christianity I think has more blood on its hands than any other faith in the world.

I think one thing we need to be careful of is treating Islam as a homogeneous group. There are variances of interpretation which are substantial. We seem to refer to Islam in a singular fashion more often than we do with Christianity, for example.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Lately I've been annoyed by some of the threads popping up using links regarding the behaviors of other Muslims from across the world or the behaviors of extremist Muslims who commit terrorism justifying their action using doctrine. So I'm curious and wanted to discuss/debate some of the personal issues some people have regarding Islam. I'm not talking about verses but what are your personal issues with Islam and why the continuing issues regarding Islam. As I've told one member, when I came back I started my disagreement with Islamic theology regarding pre-determinism. My disagreement was purely philosophical other than that I have no personal issues with Islam other than a few philosophical/theological concepts I just disagree with. So I wanted to create a thread and allow people to vent their frustrations out here and hopefully correct some errors. I also hope some RF Muslims join in and perhaps answer some issues whether theological or otherwise.

I suppose Islam in general wouldn't have had such a black eye had it not been for it's numerous worldwide acts of brutality, intolerance toward those who are not adherents, "honor" killings among family, religious executions like public beheadings, stoning, burning people alive in cages, and of course terrorism as it applies to things like the aforementioned.

It's hard for people to dissociate such behaviour as it applies to Islam and those who practice it.

While some have spoken out against these things, it still seems the majority of Islamic adherents come across as being less than genuine in proactively putting a stop to these kind of actions and events.

I think there is a limit, or a line in the sand whenever it comes to religions that have overstepped the bounds of humanity on the scale that it has.

While I've seen some progress and effort made in communications and education such as you are doing, it's going to be a very long time, if ever for the world to even start to trust Islam and its followers as long as these events and acts continue on. Not only on civilians and unaffiliated, but among the religions own brothers and sisters as well.

Abrahamic religions simply don't have a very good track record in a historical sense although there had been periods of stability. Maybe a good start would be to begin there, and address as to why these things happen.

 

[sayak83]

I disagree. There are members of various faith in all Muslim countries, now, how they're treated I cannot say since I've never been any of them. But then again define liberty. Liberty to proselytize?

Data
Atheists face death in 13 countries, global discrimination: study

13 countries have death penalty for apostasy.

But this year’s more comprehensive study showed six more, bringing the full list to Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen.


The report below analyzes the severity of blasphemy laws by country.

Report link

Respecting Rights? Measuring the World’s Blasphemy Laws

I think this provides good reason to conclude that a majoritarian Islamic society as they are today are in general incompatible with the classical liberal freedoms of religion, conscience, speech and pluralism. It's a situation like Marxism in the 20th century. While there were many enlightened Marxists in the Western world, where ever Marxist ideology became a majority, citizen's rights were severely compromised. Hence I feel obliged to oppose the growth of Islam until I am convinced that liberal Islam can actually hold its own against Islamist movements. The fate of the Arab spring and the backsliding of Turkey provides no justification for such optimism.

 

[Straw Dog]

I dislike Islam much for the same reasons that I dislike most religions, even though I still love religious believers as fellow humans being. All of my life I have been told what to believe, how to act, and what is worth living for. The answers from all religions are forced and dogmatic in their delivery (I'm willing to debate anyone on this point). Never in this life have I been given the chance to think for myself and reach my own conclusions, until the day that I decided to stop listening to other people about what I should believe, how I should act, and what I should value. And on that day, I gained free reign to do my own thing. In doing my own thing, I have begun to realize my human nature. I dislike Islam because it is contrary to a project of self-discovery.

 

[LuisDantas]

what are your personal issues with Islam and why the continuing issues regarding Islam.

I don't think mine are all that remarkable; @YmirGF might as well be talking on my behalf on his earlier post in this thread.

But it is always useful to put things on one's own words, so here it is:

1. Islaam purports to be a religion, even as it discourages the critical thinking that it would need to become one.

2. It teaches reliance on both scripture and a particularly crippled version of Abraham's conception of God to the detriment of many things, first of all actual religious matters.

3. Its moral system is both sorely outdated and mightly hindered by an actual refusal to learn better as time goes by (because the Qur'an is decreed to be eternal, supreme and unchangeable) to a level that makes the Christian Bible feel progressive and accomodating by comparison.

3.1 And because its values are so tribal in nature, it literally forbids itself from respecting LGBT+ subject matters, divergence of conceptions of the Sacred, and disbelief in god-concepts.

4. It is also, frankly, clearly conductive to mediocrity of thought, no doubt to a large degree because it is so insistent on limiting itself to what can be put as a function of scripture and of its extreme monotheism.

4.1 One of the most apparent manifestations of that mediocrity is its complete failure to conceive, let alone coexist peacefully, with rather simple religious ideas such as henotheism.

4.2 An even more serious manifestation is its impressive failure as a moral guide. Islaam teaches to value obedience, mutual support and fear. It falls short of teaching paranoia and violence, but it also falls just as short as teaching better than paranoia and violence.

4.3 Quite ironically, those very same serious flaws cripple the doctrine with such intensity that it ends up supported, protected and improved upon by most anyone who does not have a very good awareness of its actual doctrine, even as it keeps attempting to take refuge into allegations of misrepresentation of its doctrine.

4.4 Which is a major reason why my opinion of Islaam nosedived so much in so few years. Islaam has 1400 years of history and a literal billion of living nominal adherents, and even so its apologists, even supposed sages with various degrees of fame and good reputations in some circles, have such a hard time dealing with even basic questions and mild questioning and criticism that it is difficult to imagine that any community would be worse off without Islaam than it is with it. It is actually painful to compare and contrast Muslim thought with, say secular or Hindu thought. It feels like six year old children attempting to compete with mature adults without even realizing their own limitations.

In short, Islaam is a poor doctrine, obsessed with Ibrahim's brand of monotheism, with crippled or non-existent theology, that acts as a powerful and oppressive distraction, getting in the way of people that would otherwise be likely to develop critical thinking and meet actual religious doctrine. At the same time, it is also (and by design) remarkably fertile ground for politically regressive ideas that encourage violence and inconsequence.

 

[YmirGF]

Can I ask you something? Would you forget saying "upon him be peace" whenever you mention a prophet in the Bible, or the mentioning of Jesus? Devout Muslims do this daily. Hell, I can only wish if someone mentioned my real name they would wish peace upon me. To me this is devotion.

Then you have twerps like me that have enough inner peace to fuel a small village. Though such sentiments are sweet, it's not something I would either encourage or look kindly on. It's the gift you don't need once you have it.

 

[sun rise]

I think one thing we need to be careful of is treating Islam as a homogeneous group. There are variances of interpretation which are substantial. We seem to refer to Islam in a singular fashion more often than we do with Christianity, for example.

You wrote the words I was thinking of.

One of the biggest differences is how Islam is practiced in various cultures. Islam as practiced by the majority in the USA is vastly different than how it's practiced in Saudi Arabia or Iran. How Muslims respond to cultures with history of accepting immigrants, however mixed, specifically the US is different than they respond to cultures with no tradition of immigration such as much of Europe.

After all, if we looked at the 613 laws Jews are supposed to follow if you read those Books literally and sometimes under specific circumstances such as grapes and raisins) you could condemn Judaism for some of the 613 laws just as I'm sure that the change in some Islamic countries to this one was noted as a defect in Islam but it's in the Deut. as well:

The rapist must marry his victim if she is unwed — Deut. 22:29http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0522.htm#29​

In a sense to me, Islam and Judaism are closer than either and Christianity when it comes to the scriptures.

​

 

[columbus]

I think one thing we need to be careful of is treating Islam as a homogeneous group.

It would be easier if Muslims didn't do so.
Tom