Why do you love the Eucharist?

[Gaura Priya]

"You gave Your people Food of Angels,
and without their toil
You supplied them from heaven
with Bread ready to eat,
providing every pleasure
and suited to every taste.

For Your sustenance manifested
Your sweetness towards your children;
and the Bread, ministering to the desire
of the one who took it,
was changed to suit everyone’s liking.

Therefore at that time also,
changed into all forms,
it served Your all-nourishing bounty,
according to the desire
of those who had need,

so that Your children,
whom You loved, O Lord,
might learn that it is not
the production of crops that feeds humankind
but that Your Word sustains those who trust in You."


-- Wisdom 16:20-21,25-26 (NRSV)

So why do you love the Blessed Sacrament?

For me, the Eucharist is the crux of the Divine Liturgy, the centre of my faith, where Christ, the Word of God Incarnate, places Himself in communion with us through the Sacrament of Bread and Wine. When the Eucharistic prayers are recited, I feel as if I stand in the midst of eternity, in a spatial glimpse of the timelessness of Christ's eternal sacrifice laid before me.

Some may take it as ritual cannibalism, but anyone who studies tantric philosophy knows that such is beside the case. Eucharistic theology, to me, remains the deepest, most mystical aspect of Christian teaching that has always kept with me - that the Bread of Heaven, the Food of Angels, the Bread of Life, which is Christ Jesus, would commune with us in the most intimate way, and bring about his sacred grace into our lives through the Blessed Sacrament.

There are many Churches and interpretations of Christianity, but for me, this one thing, this Eucharist, is from God's grace to us.
​

 

[Treks]

I don't know much about the Eucharist yet but it's obviously a very important part of Christianity, and moreso in Catholicism (which is what I'm learning about at the moment).

At first sight it seems like cannabalism, but if we take it metaphorically it makes heaps more sense. But I really don't know much about it so this is all just my random thinking on the topic. Perhaps the bread is symbolic of internalising Christ's practical guidence, and the wine is taking on board his spirituality? I don't know.

So yeah, rather than cannabalism I view it as symbolic of the process of internalising Christ's teachings and example so a person can be as Christ-like as they can be.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The Eucharist was ordained by Jesus as a remembrance of him, and for which he promised his presence.
It forms the principal service of worship for most Christians.
Some extreme protestants see it as too catholic and celebrate it rarely.

A majority of Christians see the Body and Blood as Symbolic and in the presence of Jesus, as it was at the last supper.
Catholics and Orthodox see them as "Real"

(I attend a Eucharist weekly on a Thursday. Most Anglican Churches Hold Eucharist services, for the baptised, on Sundays and at least two week days depend on the availability of a priest. )
(at the other extreme are the JW's who only hold the service once a year, only those who "Know" they are amongst the elect partake of the elements. The majority pass them on untouched.)

 

[Gaura Priya]

I don't know much about the Eucharist yet but it's obviously a very important part of Christianity, and moreso in Catholicism (which is what I'm learning about at the moment).

At first sight it seems like cannabalism, but if we take it metaphorically it makes heaps more sense. But I really don't know much about it so this is all just my random thinking on the topic. Perhaps the bread is symbolic of internalising Christ's practical guidence, and the wine is taking on board his spirituality? I don't know.

So yeah, rather than cannabalism I view it as symbolic of the process of internalising Christ's teachings and example so a person can be as Christ-like as they can be.

I suppose I believe in the 'Real Presence' of the Eucharist. Anglicanism has people believing in it as a symbol, and other Anglicans also believe in the 'real presence.'

Basically, what 'Real Presence' means is that the Eucharist is not just a symbol, but a chance, a moment to be intimate with Christ. Jesus in the Bible (John 6:52-58) says that unless we eat His flesh, and drink His blood, we have no life within us. The Bread is the Body of Christ which He gave to us, and the Wine is the Blood which He shed on the Cross.

Since you are a Sikh, think of Naam simran and Gurbani. When you listen to Gurbani, or do japa of naam simran, you can attain the presence of God that is indescribable, no? Naam japa brings us the remembrance of God through His Name, and we become in communion with Him.

In the same way, think that the Naam has brought itself in the Eucharist. For many Christians, the Eucharist becomes simran of Christ, and we become connected to Him in that way.

 

[Gaura Priya]

"Jesus said to them, ‘Very truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life, and I will raise them up on the last day; for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink.

Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever eats me will live because of me.

This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like that which your ancestors ate, and they died. But the one who eats this bread will live for ever.’ He said these things while he was teaching in the synagogue at Capernaum.

When many of his disciples heard it, they said, ‘This teaching is difficult; who can accept it?’

But Jesus, being aware that his disciples were complaining about it, said to them, ‘Does this offend you? Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."

-- John 6:53-63 (NRSV)

 

[Treks]

Thanks for the extra information GP. There is a lot to learn.

 

[Shiranui117]

Here's the pre-communion prayer as recited in the Orthodox Church:

I believe, O Lord and confess, that You are truly the Christ, Son of the living God, Who came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the first. O Son of God, accept me today as a communicant of Your Mystical Supper, for I will not speak of this Mystery to Your enemies, nor like Judas will I give You a kiss, but like the penitent thief I confess to You:

O Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.
O Master, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.
O Holy one, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.

Let the partaking of Your holy Mysteries, 0 Lord, be not for my judgment or condemnation, but for the healing of my soul and my body.
O Lord, I also believe and confess that this, which I am about to receive, is truly Your most precious Body and truly Your life-giving Blood which, I pray, I may worthily receive for the remission of all my sins and for life everlasting.

O God, be merciful to me, a sinner.
O God, cleanse me of my sins and have mercy on me.
O Lord, forgive me, for my sins are many.
​

I will note that the Fathers of the Church, both East and West, affirm that Christ truly is present in/as the Eucharist. They may not all clearly support the Catholic view of transubstantiation, but they truly do believe that there is a Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. This is the teaching of the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, AND the Oriental Orthodox Church all together. I'm also quite sure that the Assyrian Church of the East also holds to this teaching.

 

[Gaura Priya]

I will note that the Fathers of the Church, both East and West, affirm that Christ truly is present in/as the Eucharist. They may not all clearly support the Catholic view of transubstantiation, but they truly do believe that there is a Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. This is the teaching of the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, AND the Oriental Orthodox Church all together. I'm also quite sure that the Assyrian Church of the East also holds to this teaching.

What a beautiful prayer! Certainly much nicer than the Anglican one... it's a little bloody. :flirt:

I would add with some consideration that Anglicanism also believes in the Real Presence, because we also possess the Apostolic Succession and thus receive the heritage of Tradition from the Christian Churches. However, the interpretation thereof varies according to each Anglican.

Some Anglicans believe it to be symbolic, and others to be the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. In any case, the Eucharist is not to be taken lightly, and on the official level, 'Real Presence' is not defined - it remains a mystery, as it is supposed to be.

Thus Anglicans also believe in the Real Presence, BUT we do not believe that the Eucharist needs to be defined with transubstantiation, consubstantiation, etc. The Holy of Holies (i.e. the Eucharist) in the Tabernacle is so sacred, no words can truly describe its power to convey God's Grace.

 

[Shiranui117]

What a beautiful prayer! Certainly much nicer than the Anglican one... it's a little bloody. :flirt:

Lol! Yeah, it's quite nice when everyone prays it in unison.

I would add with some consideration that Anglicanism also believes in the Real Presence, because we also possess the Apostolic Succession and thus receive the heritage of Tradition from the Christian Churches. However, the interpretation thereof varies according to each Anglican.

Some Anglicans believe it to be symbolic, and others to be the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. In any case, the Eucharist is not to be taken lightly, and on the official level, 'Real Presence' is not defined - it remains a mystery, as it is supposed to be.

Thus Anglicans also believe in the Real Presence, BUT we do not believe that the Eucharist needs to be defined with transubstantiation, consubstantiation, etc. The Holy of Holies (i.e. the Eucharist) in the Tabernacle is so sacred, no words can truly describe its power to convey God's Grace.

The Orthodox would agree that it is a mystery, but we would also say that it's more than mere symbolism.

 

[Gaura Priya]

The Orthodox would agree that it is a mystery, but we would also say that it's more than mere symbolism.

I adhere to Anglo-Catholicism and go to an Anglo-Catholic parish, and although it is Anglican, it is probably more traditional than most 'Protestant' style parishes. At my parish, one would gawk at the idea that the Eucharist is a mere symbol, and visitors are often asked if they are 'baptised Christians' before being allowed to take the Sacrament.

I suppose that is the beauty of the Anglican Communion - The Anglican message is seen through Scripture, Tradition, and Reason, and whilst an expression of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Faith, there is freedom to think and to have variation.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

All Anglicans believe Jesus is present during the Eucharist. Only High Church Anglo-Catholics tend to believe that the bread and wine "Become" in some way. the body and Blood of Jesus.
Few people believe that when Jesus passed the Bread and wine at the last supper it actually became his body and blood. It was spoken in reference to the the trial to come.
God as the Holy spirit is always with us, Jesus is certainly with us at the Eucharist.

 

[SageTree]

The Orthodox would agree that it is a mystery, but we would also say that it's more than mere symbolism.

This is the view that I take.

Not having everything little detail laid out about 'how' the Spirit comes.
But so much more than mere remembrance.

Mystery...Mystery... Mystery.

This is one reason Orthodoxy really seems to ring true with me.

It's concise about being immersed in the vastness and the immensity of the Holy Mysteries.

I feel like there is more 'room' for me to 'be' in the experience,
instead of having it dictated to me.

I seek and find, as opposed to being shown what I'm looking for.

Maybe that isn't correct in the eyes of the EOC (Shiranui?)
but that is how I understand the Eucharist in Orthodox Christianity.

So please correct me if I'm mistaken.

As for me.... that is how I too approach the Eucharist in Anglican worship.

For me the favourite thing about the Eucharist is noticing how I feel on the walk up and in the kneeing... the lowering of my Self.
And then the noticing how I feel when I rise up into newness and walk back to my seat to meditate on that feeling in me,
the blessing of newness, the intention going out into the world.


In short.... I enjoy the blessing of my own unique experience with the Sacraments and in the feeling of Renewedness within me.

 

[Gaura Priya]

This is the view that I take.

Not having everything little detail laid out about 'how' the Spirit comes.
But so much more than mere remembrance.

Mystery...Mystery... Mystery.

This is one reason Orthodoxy really seems to ring true with me.

It's concise about being immersed in the vastness and the immensity of the Holy Mysteries.

I feel like there is more 'room' for me to 'be' in the experience,
instead of having it dictated to me.

I seek and find, as opposed to being shown what I'm looking for.

Maybe that isn't correct in the eyes of the EOC (Shiranui?)
but that is how I understand the Eucharist in Orthodox Christianity.

So please correct me if I'm mistaken.

As for me.... that is how I too approach the Eucharist in Anglican worship.

For me the favourite thing about the Eucharist is noticing how I feel on the walk up and in the kneeing... the lowering of my Self.
And then the noticing how I feel when I rise up into newness and walk back to my seat to meditate on that feeling in me,
the blessing of newness, the intention going out into the world.


In short.... I enjoy the blessing of my own unique experience with the Sacraments and in the feeling of Renewedness within me.

I totally agree! I feel that any Christian group that know the significance of the Eucharist (namely Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans and Lutherans) should remember that this Blessed Sacrament, indeed all sacraments, are mysteries of the Faith.

The Bread and Wine not only remind us of Christ's coming into this world to exault our humanity, but we too can become in union with Christ, in body, blood, soul, and divinity. It is a small taste of what Heaven would be like: to be united with Christ in every way.

Normally I would NEVER post praise and worship music, BUT I love Matt Maher's renditions (he's Catholic!) and I love his version of Saint Thomas Aquinas' hymn to the Blessed Sacrament (Down in adoration falling... or 'Tantum Ergo').

[youtube]4vSM0z6Wsj8[/youtube]
Matt Maher -Adoration - YouTube

Enjoy! This song always gets to me! :candle:

 

[Shiranui117]

This is the view that I take.

Not having everything little detail laid out about 'how' the Spirit comes.
But so much more than mere remembrance.

Mystery...Mystery... Mystery.

This is one reason Orthodoxy really seems to ring true with me.

It's concise about being immersed in the vastness and the immensity of the Holy Mysteries.

I feel like there is more 'room' for me to 'be' in the experience,
instead of having it dictated to me.

I seek and find, as opposed to being shown what I'm looking for.

Maybe that isn't correct in the eyes of the EOC (Shiranui?)
but that is how I understand the Eucharist in Orthodox Christianity.

So please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Sounds about right to me, personally. But what exactly do you mean by "I seek and find, as opposed to being shown what I'm looking for"?

 

[SageTree]

Sounds about right to me, personally. But what exactly do you mean by "I seek and find, as opposed to being shown what I'm looking for"?

Generally speaking, of course....

Experiencing what you find when you delve into the Mysteries.
vs.
Being told what the Mystery is, which isn't much of a mystery at all.

Does that make more sense?

Thanks for the confirmation on the other thoughts I shared.

:namaste

 

[Shiranui117]

Generally speaking, of course....

Experiencing what you find when you delve into the Mysteries.
vs.
Being told what the Mystery is, which isn't much of a mystery at all.

Does that make more sense?

Thanks for the confirmation on the other thoughts I shared.

:namaste

Yes, that does. And you're welcome

 

[SageTree]

Yes, that does. And you're welcome

Right on. And thanks for the feedback. It's nice to have some encouragement in the 'you got it, man' dept.

Been reading, studying, talking etc.... feels good man.

 

[Vouthon]

Dear Gaura Priya :bow:

Thank you for creating this thread. I really appreciated your reflections on the Eucharist, as I did SageTree's and Shiranui's also.

Particularly, I liked when you noted that:

Basically, what 'Real Presence' means is that the Eucharist is not just a symbol, but a chance, a moment to be intimate with Christ...think that the Naam has brought itself in the Eucharist. For many Christians, the Eucharist becomes simran of Christ, and we become connected to Him in that way

Amen!

Catholic mystics have often related life-transforming experiences before, during and after partaking of the Most Holy Eucharist. In many cases, the act of receiving Holy Communion leads them to union with God, in effect, a union of "indistinction" with God, in which the mystic is so aware of the intimate bond created between the body, blood and personhood of Christ through the real presence and their own body and soul, that they perceive no difference between themselves and Christ but have truly put on Christ and can say with Saint Paul: "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" (Galatians 2:20).

I'm going to quote for you from the writings of Hadewijch of Antwerp (a great medieval Beguine, Dutch mystic) and Johannes Tauler.

"...One Pentecost at dawn I had a vision. Matins were being sung in the church and I was there. And my heart and my veins and all my limbs trembled and shuddered with desire. And I was in such a state as I had been so many times before, so passionate and so terribly unnerved that I thought I should not satisfy my Lover and my Lover not fully gratify me, then I would have to desire while dying and die while desiring. At that time I was so terribly unnerved with passionate love and in such pain that I imagined all my limbs breaking one by one and all my veins were separately in tortuous pain. The state of desire in which I then was cannot be expressed by any words or any person that I know. And even that which I could say of it would be incomprehensible to all who hadn't confessed this love by means of acts of passion and who were not known by Love. This much I can say about it: I desired to consummate my Lover completely and to confess and to savour in the fullest extent--to fulfil his humanity blissfully with mine and to experience mine therein, and to be strong and perfect so that I in turn would satisfy him perfectly: to be purely and exclusively and completely virtuous in every virtue. And to that end I wished, inside me, that he would satisfy me with his Godhead in one spirit (1 Cor 6:17) and he shall be all he is without restraint. For above all gifts I could choose, I choose that I may give satisfaction in all great sufferings. For that is what it means to satisfy completely: to grow to being god with God. For it is suffering and pain, sorrow and being in great new grieving, and letting this all come and go without grief, and to taste nothing of it but sweet love and embraces and kisses. Thus I desired that God should be with me so that I should be fulfilled together with him.

When at that time I was in a state of terrible weariness, I saw a great eagle, flying towards me from the altar. And he said to me: "If you wish to become one, then prepare yourself." And I fell to my knees and my heart longed terribly to worship that One Thing in accordance with its true dignity, which is impossible--I know that, God knows that, to my great sadness and burden. And the eagle turned, saying, "Righteous and most powerful Lord, show now the powerful force of your Unity for the consummation with the Oneness of yourself." And he turned back and said to me, "He who has come, comes again, and wherever he never came, there he will not come."

Then he came from the altar, showing himself as a child. And that child had the very same appearance that he had in his first three years. And he turned to me and from the ciborium he took his body in his right hand and in his left hand he took a chalice that seemed to come from the altar, but I know not where it came from. Thereupon he came in the appearance and the clothing of the man he was on that day when he first gave us his body, that appearance of a human being and a man, showing his sweet and beautiful and sorrowful face, and approaching me with the humility of the one who belongs entirely to another. Then he gave himself to me in the form of the sacrament, in the manner to which people are accustomed. Then he gave me to drink from the chalice in the manner and taste to which people are accustomed. Then he came to me himself and took me completely in his arms and pressed me to him. And all my limbs felt his limbs in the full satisfaction that my heart and my humanity desired. Then I was externally completely satisfied to the utmost satiation.

At that time I also had, for a short while, the strength to bear it. But all too soon I lost external sight of the shape of that beautiful man, and I saw him disappear to nothing, so quickly melting away and fusing together that I could not see or observe him outside of me, nor discern him within me. It was to me at that moment as if we were one without distinction. All of this was external, in sight, in taste, in touch, just as people may taste and see and touch receiving the external sacrament, just as a beloved may receive her lover in the full pleasure of seeing and hearing, with the one becoming one with the other. After this I remained in a state of oneness with my Beloved so that I melted into him and ceased to be myself. And I was transformed and absorbed in the spirit, and I had a vision about the following hours..."

- Hadewijch of Antwerp (13th centry), Dutch Catholic woman mystic

Now that my friends is what I call a "eucharistic experience". It reminds one of the Ecstasy of Saint Teresa and her almost orgasmic experience of the love of God as depicted by Bernini.

Through the act of consecration of the sacred host during the mass, Hadewijch is led into a rapture, becoming one with Jesus in a transformative union without any conscious difference between herself and her saviour.

Now Johannes Tauler and the Eucharist:

"...How can reason possibly grasp that immensity beyond all being where the precious food of the Eucharist is, in some marvellous way, made one with us, drawing us wholly to itself and changing us into itself? It is a union more intimate than any that the human mind can conceive, totally unlike any other change, a union more compatible than a tiny drop of water losing itself in the wine-vat and becoming one with the wine, or that of the rays of the sun made one with the sun's splendour; or the soul with the body, the two together making one person, one being. In this union the soul is lifted above the infirmity of its natural state, its own insufficiency, and there it is purified, transfigured and raised above its own powers, its human operations, its very self. Both being and activities are penetrated through and through by God, formed and transformed in a divine manner, the soul's new birth is accomplished in truth, and the spirit, losing all its native incompatibility, flows into divine union.

It is something like fire working on wood; the heat draws out all the moisture, the greenness and the heaviness. It grows warm, begins to glow, becomes more like the fire itself. As the wood slowly takes on the likeness of fire, the dissimilarity between the two grows less until finally, in a rapid movement, the fire takes from the wood its own substance; the wood becomes fire and loses at the same time its separateness and inequality, since it has become fire. No longer merely like fire, it has become one substance with the fire. Likeness is lost in union.

In the same way this food of love draws the soul above distinction or difference, beyond resemblance to divine unity. This is what happens to the transfigured spirit. When the divine heat of love has drawn out all the moisture, heaviness, unfitness, then this holy food plunges such a one into the life of God. As Our Lord himself said to St Augustine, "I am the food of the strong: believe and feast on me. You will not change me into yourself; rather you will be changed into me."..."

- Johannes Tauler (c.1300-1361), German Catholic mystic & Dominican priest

"...John Tauler teaches that the normal response to receiving communion should be contemplation. Such a total gift of self on Christ's part requires a corresponding gift of self on our part, and such a union should result in the highest contemplation, all things being equal, which they usually aren't. In our first passage he talks about levels of conversion, a relatively superficial level and a profound level, and this may help us understand why we are not all mystics, even though we go to communion..."

- from a Benedictine blog