Why does God allow evil?

[George-ananda]

Do subscribe to fatalism? (A belief in determinism would seem to imply fatalism.)

Yes, but as I believe in non-dualism (God and creation are not-two) then ultimately we are also the creators and actors in the script. While in our roles though, we truly believe the play/drama is real.

 

[Ouroboros]

God does not allow evil as a means to bring about the greatest good in of itself (God's will is not dependant on evil) but in his foresight, he is able to bring about the greatest good despite evil. He allows evil because his will cannot disturbed by whatever evil he permits to occur. And his will is ultimately the greatest good.

He's bringing about good despise evil and doesn't need it, then why does he allow it? He can stop it. He doesn't need it. It's evil. Sounds to me that you're suggesting that he can't stop it after all.

No, because you are misrepresenting the nature of God's permission of evil. An evil act in isolation, may not have any prospect of a greater good in of itself. It's the allowance of evil as a reality that he allows as it will not prevent God's will coming to ultimate fruition which is the greater good. He will allow you to shoot the child because he permits you free moral agency. But of course, just because you're free to do something doesn't mean you won't have to answer for it when standing before God.

So why does he allow it if it's something he can and wants to stop?

I think this is already answered. God permits evil because he allows moral agency, and despite all the evil that will occur, he will nonetheless bring about the greatest good with and despite it. You still hold complete accountability for your life and your decisions.

Then moral agency is a greater good, i.e. something more important than stopping evil.

 

[Gambit]

Yes, but as I believe in non-dualism (God and creation are not-two) then ultimately we are also the creators and actors in the script. While in our roles though, we truly believe the play/drama is real.

If determinism is true, then the script is already written. So, it would seem like "we" are just passive observers, not active participants.

 

[Acintya_Ash]

Why does God allow evil

God gives freedom. If God didn’t give us freedom, if God simply programmed us to love, then we would be computers. But God gives us the freedom to love Him, or love anybody else, or hate Him or betray Him, or rebel against Him. We have the freedom to do whatever we want. We can go on to be a murderer right after reading this. We can go to a movie; we can go to a temple. We can dance. We can get drunk. We have freedom to do any of these things.

Does the computer have the freedom? A computer has no freedom. A computer is simply programmed to do exactly what the computer operator wants. God does not want to live with computers; He wants to live with people. Therefore, He has given us freedom and independence. Our freedom is whether we want to accept or whether we want to reject the grace of God, as it coming from the word of truth.– Radhanath Swami

 

[Glaurung]

He's bringing about good despise evil and doesn't need it, then why does he allow it? He can stop it. He doesn't need it. It's evil. Sounds to me that you're suggesting that he can't stop it after all.

Evil is a necessary consequence of the moral freedom of created beings. If intelligent beings can choose virtue, they must also have the ability to choose evil, otherwise moral agency becomes meaningless. God wants from us legitimate virtue, which inescapably means giving us the moral freedom to sin.

Natural evil, such as natural disasters, are an unfortunate reality of an imperfect natural world. This state of affairs is a consequence of the fall from grace as described in Genesis. The fall from grace is also the reason for the human propensity towards sin, and the necessity of God's grace in living a moral life.

So why does he allow it if it's something he can and wants to stop?

Asking the same question over and over will get you no where. God is the creator, not a micromanaging puppet master. God allows us to our own choices because he has created us with free will. Freedom necessitates the ability to do evil things. However, God has not excepted us from moral culpability. Every soul will give an account before God for its life here on Earth.

Then moral agency is a greater good, i.e. something more important than stopping evil.

You're actually not that far off. Surely, you can see that virtue when it is a true and free choice is superior to 'virtue' that is compelled by the inability for anything but? Thus creating his intelligent creatures with moral agency is a greater good than creating programmed automatons. Of course, evil has already been utterly conquered by Christ's death and resurrection, but whilst on Earth we must deal with it and strive to overcome it as much as we can. Jesus has provided the means for our justification before God, we have only to accept it and align ourselves with God as much as possible.

 

[Gambit]

What is the "greater good"?

The ultimate good is God himself.

 

[LuisDantas]

Question:

Why does God allow evil (or the "privation or absence of good")?

Answer:

"God allows evil to happen in order to bring a greater good therefrom." - St. Thomas Aquinas

That never sounded like an answer to me personally. It is just a statement that links two arbitrary claims just because.

And it does so while challenging some of the basic premises of the supposed beliefs of Aquinas, no less.

Ultimately, it is just an arbitrary and contradictory statement.

 

[DayRaven]

Or is it that what God considers Good and Evil is different than what humans consider good and evil.

Well ethics is, I suppose, the discipline of orientating oneself to what is the "right way". What that "right way" is is debatable. Human moralities are, I think, what becomes concrete for a specific cultural expression. Is there an underlying meta-ethic?

Do you think cats are evil?

Where I live I often watch the sparrow hawks dismembering pigeons and doves. I doubt that either takes it personally (naturally the prey wouldn't have time to).

 

[oldbadger]

Answer:- There is no such thing as 'Evil'......
All that exists in the Universe is just 'natural', and 'natural' does as 'natural' needs to do.

Some humans seek to establish order, safety and society for a better human World, but even this cannot be identified as generally 'Good'....... unless you are a human benefiting from that social order.
So I don't think that God identifies with 'good' or 'Evil' like we do.

 

[Gambit]

That never sounded like an answer to me personally. It is just a statement that links two arbitrary claims just because.

And it does so while challenging some of the basic premises of the supposed beliefs of Aquinas, no less.

Ultimately, it is just an arbitrary and contradictory statement.

What exactly is the contradiction?

 

[Gambit]

Answer:- There is no such thing as 'Evil'......

Defining evil as the absence of good implies that evil does not exist as a "thing." Evil is "nothing" (no thing).

 

[Gambit]

Natural evil, such as natural disasters, are an unfortunate reality of an imperfect natural world. This state of affairs is a consequence of the fall from grace as described in Genesis. The fall from grace is also the reason for the human propensity towards sin, and the necessity of God's grace in living a moral life.

Just curious. Do you reject evolution?

 

[George-ananda]

If determinism is true, then the script is already written. So, it would seem like "we" are just passive observers, not active participants.

But we are also the writers of that script. It's tricky to think about but in non-dual thought God and creation are not-two. We are God as strange as that sounds in western concepts.

God separates Himself from Himself into finite forms and returns Himself to Himself in this divine play/drama. It is all only God playing all the roles.

 

[Koldo]

But we are also the writers of that script. It's tricky to think about but in non-dual thought God and creation are not-two. We are God as strange as that sounds in western concepts.

God separates Himself from Himself into finite forms and returns Himself to Himself in this divine play/drama. It is all only God playing all the roles.

If determinism is true then there is a script that forces the hand of brahman ( to write scripts in a particular way ).
That is what he meant. I guess.

 

[George-ananda]

If determinism is true then there is a script that forces the hand of brahman ( to write scripts in a particular way ).
That is what he meant. I guess.

I don't think that's what he meant. I thought he was looking at 'us' in a dualistic way.

But no, Brahman has a free hand in creating the script. Just like a human author can make whatever happen in a script he thinks up. Brahman is the unbound.

 

[Gambit]

God separates Himself from Himself into finite forms and returns Himself to Himself in this divine play/drama. It is all only God playing all the roles.

I understood that. That's why I said the script is already written. "We" are not really active participants in the drama of life, just passive observers. (There really is no "you" or "I" that does anything. The "ego" is just illusory. God is completely determining everything. Right?).

 

[oldbadger]

Defining evil as the absence of good implies that evil does not exist as a "thing." Evil is "nothing" (no thing).

Yep.......
I am now wondering about 'good'.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Question: Why does God allow evil (or the "privation or absence of good")?

Simple, There is no God. Things happen. as Oldbadger said "All that exists in the Universe is just 'natural', and 'natural' does as 'natural' needs to do." If a merchant makes a 200% profit, then it is good for him but bad for the buyer.

 

[George-ananda]

I understood that. That's why I said the script is already written. "We" are not really active participants in the drama of life, just passive observers. (There really is no "you" or "I" that does anything. The "ego" is just illusory. God is completely determining everything. Right?).

Yes, God determines everything and we are that God. God by placing Himself in a finite form experiences relative reality.

 

[Gambit]

Yep.......
I am now wondering about 'good'.

The theist believes the supreme good (a.k.a. God) exists