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Why does God need a creator?

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
The universe, as we know, has existed for approximately 14 billion years. Many speculate that there wasn't literally "nothing" before the Big Bang. That, in one way or another, the universe has always existed in some form; and will continue to exist in some form or another. Basically, the universe really has no real starting point and is "eternal"; even if it does go through cycles of creation and destruction.

With that in mind, if the universe doesn't necessarily need a singular starting point, then why does God? Why is it more plausible to believe in an eternal universe rather than in an eternal Source? Why does God need a creator?
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The universe, as we know, has existed for approximately 14 billions years. Many speculate that there wasn't literally "nothing" before the Big Bang. That, in one way or another, the universe has always existed in some form; and will continue to exist in some form or another. Basically, the universe really has no real starting point and is "eternal"; even if it does go through cycles of creation and destruction.
I can't believe the many LAWS of physics made themselves.

With that in mind, if the universe doesn't necessarily need a singular starting point, then why does God? Why is it more plausible to believe in an eternal universe rather than in an eternal Source? Why does God need a creator?

Why has God created? I think it all has to do with God's son. The universe is the womb by which Yeshua formed.
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The universe, as we know, has existed for approximately 14 billions years. Many speculate that there wasn't literally "nothing" before the Big Bang. That, in one way or another, the universe has always existed in some form; and will continue to exist in some form or another. Basically, the universe really has no real starting point and is "eternal"; even if it does go through cycles of creation and destruction.

With that in mind, if the universe doesn't necessarily need a singular starting point, then why does God? Why is it more plausible to believe in an eternal universe rather than in an eternal Source? Why does God need a creator?

As far as I know, the answer to your question would be Occam's Razor.
 

Huey09

He who struggles with God
The universe, as we know, has existed for approximately 14 billions years. Many speculate that there wasn't literally "nothing" before the Big Bang. That, in one way or another, the universe has always existed in some form; and will continue to exist in some form or another. Basically, the universe really has no real starting point and is "eternal"; even if it does go through cycles of creation and destruction.

With that in mind, if the universe doesn't necessarily need a singular starting point, then why does God? Why is it more plausible to believe in an eternal universe rather than in an eternal Source? Why does God need a creator?
Perhaps like in the eastern faiths its all in a cycle. Different forms of reality with God and the universe being intertwine like the bow and arrow one is incomplete without the other. I hope I'm making sense?:foot:
 

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
As far as I know, the answer to your question would be Occam's Razor.

The hypothesis with the least amount of assumptions is likely to be the most true?

Wouldn't that risk putting God into the "God of the Gaps" label?
 

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
Perhaps like in the eastern faiths its all in a cycle. Different forms of reality with God and the universe being intertwine like the bow and arrow one is incomplete without the other. I hope I'm making sense?:foot:

In a way, yeah, it does make sense. Maybe you should practice an eastern path my dear Huey. :D
 

Huey09

He who struggles with God
Don't get me wrong I love Hinduism I love beef too! Haha and I like Buddhism but I need a manager of the universe to complain or ask for assistance while I'm in this shopping mall called life;)
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
As far as I know, the answer to your question would be Occam's Razor.

The principle of the Razor gets frequently misused. It's a heuristic - that means a cognitive shorthand - for testing scientific hypotheses. Simplification in hypothesis testing and methods is important in the sciences, in part because the simpler your test, the cleaner your data are going to be in terms of counfounding variables. It's not a substitute for logical arguments, actual proofs, facts, or data, nor is it an answer; and it's definitely not a substitute for the art and storytelling which much of religion is based upon. Hell, art and storytelling often deliberately embellishes to emphasize meaning.

The question shouldn't be what is more "plausible" but "what makes a more interesting story to me?" Religious mythos in't science, and ought not to be treated like it is.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
The universe, as we know, has existed for approximately 14 billion years. Many speculate that there wasn't literally "nothing" before the Big Bang. That, in one way or another, the universe has always existed in some form; and will continue to exist in some form or another. Basically, the universe really has no real starting point and is "eternal"; even if it does go through cycles of creation and destruction.

With that in mind, if the universe doesn't necessarily need a singular starting point, then why does God? Why is it more plausible to believe in an eternal universe rather than in an eternal Source? Why does God need a creator?

I don't get where you are coming from. It seems like you mixed up two things.
The question is generally: If the universe had to be created by someone, then who created god?

I don't see any reason as to why someone would ask who created god ( on this context ) if it has been accepted that the universe doesn't necessarily require a singular starting point.
 

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
I don't get where you are coming from. It seems like you mixed up two things.
The question is generally: If the universe had to be created by someone, then who created god?

I don't see any reason as to why someone would ask who created god ( on this context ) if it has been accepted that the universe doesn't necessarily require a singular starting point.

I was just simply asking that if it is acceptable to believe in an eternal universe which does not have a solidified starting point, couldn't it be just as "valid" (for lack of a better word) to believe in an eternal God who was also uncreated?

Even among some people who believe that the universe has always existed, it somehow "disproves" any notion of a deity.

Sorry if my wording was confusing.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The universe, as we know, has existed for approximately 14 billion years. Many speculate that there wasn't literally "nothing" before the Big Bang. That, in one way or another, the universe has always existed in some form; and will continue to exist in some form or another. Basically, the universe really has no real starting point and is "eternal"; even if it does go through cycles of creation and destruction.

With that in mind, if the universe doesn't necessarily need a singular starting point, then why does God? Why is it more plausible to believe in an eternal universe rather than in an eternal Source? Why does God need a creator?
I don't understand what you're getting at? Does God necessarily need a starting point? Isn't that the whole idea behind "eternity?" Does God "need a creator?" God is not created, so why would God "need a creator?"
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
They are not made in the sense matter is, or destroyed--their nature is that of a relation between objects. To that end, in order to exist they only need an observer.

The laws of physics cooperate together. How? If their nature is about relationships between things how did the things appear without physical law?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't understand what you're getting at? Does God necessarily need a starting point? Isn't that the whole idea behind "eternity?" Does God "need a creator?" God is not created, so why would God "need a creator?"

I understood the question to mean why does it seem God needed to create? Why does The God create? Am I wrong?
 

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
I don't understand what you're getting at? Does God necessarily need a starting point? Isn't that the whole idea behind "eternity?" Does God "need a creator?" God is not created, so why would God "need a creator?"

That was my point.

So many people say "If God exists/created the universe, then who created God"? My question is "If the universe can be uncreated/eternal, why can't God"?

I didn't think my question was that confusing.
 

Around

New Member
You can examine the universe and ponder whether it has always been here or arrived suddenly and from what. There are no gods to examine.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The universe, as we know, has existed for approximately 14 billion years. Many speculate that there wasn't literally "nothing" before the Big Bang. That, in one way or another, the universe has always existed in some form; and will continue to exist in some form or another. Basically, the universe really has no real starting point and is "eternal"; even if it does go through cycles of creation and destruction.

With that in mind, if the universe doesn't necessarily need a singular starting point, then why does God? Why is it more plausible to believe in an eternal universe rather than in an eternal Source? Why does God need a creator?
Usually the argument of god needing a creator is a reactionary one, and is most meaningful in the context that it is usually made.

It's usually made in response to the idea that the universe requires a creator. Some people argue that the universe is too complex or too specific to have always existed or to have come from nothing, and so, they argue that a creator is required for the creation. A watchmaker for the watch, in other words, because something as complex as a watch doesn't just appear out of nowhere.

But then the counterargument is that if someone argues that the universe can't come from nothing and can't have always existed, then how can it be the case that some being capable of creating universes, has either always existed or has come from nothing? If a watch is too complex to have always existed or to have come from nothing, then how can a watchmaker have always existed or come from nothing? Basically, adding a creator for existence doesn't solve any logical problems associated with its origins; it just adds another layer, adds more complexity, without answering anything.

So it's not that the universe requires no creator but a god does, but rather, if the idea of a god needs no creator, than the same logic applies to the universe not needing a creator, unless someone can provide a coherent reason as to why one set of logic applies to one but not the other.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
God doesn't need a creator. God is spirit. Compare that to the space the universe occupies.
That's a non-argument.

For that to become an argument, you'd have to explain, in detail, why a spirit can have always existed, but why other things cannot have always existed. What unique properties of a spirit allow it to have always existed, in comparison to other things?
 
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