Why Does God Permit Evil?

[Japle]

A typical closing argument on this subject is, “You’ll find out I’m right when you’re dead”.

But I won’t find out anything, because I’ll be dead. And it’ll be the same for you.

 

[Hawkins]

What does the Bible have to say on this subject?

Some say if God existed, he would put an end to the suffering we see in the world.
Others say that there is evidence God exists, and there is a reason why God permits suffering.
I want to get some input on the Biblical view on why the God of the Bible would allow evil and suffering.
Please try to provide scripture to support what you say, since this is supposed to present what the Bible says on the topic.

That boils down to what human assumptions have been made. Humans have assumed that earth should be a paradise with no suffering while the Bible never said so.

Primarily, a realm God dwells as a living place is deemed as Heaven. A realm outside of His dwelling realm is a hell. Eden is a Heaven. However ever since Adam was driven out, humans are not inside God's dwelling realm but outside of it. The whole Christianity is about how humans can make their way back to Heaven.

Earth is a bit better than the actually hell simply because God's elect is still on earth. That's what He cares. If not because of Elect, earth may have been more hell like than it is now.

Matthew 24:22 (NIV2011)
If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.


From another perspective, earth is a place for all the evil to show up openly under witnessing such that they can be destroyed once and for all, in order to secure a clean future Heaven.

 

[nPeace]

But the authors can.


But Adam IS a dirt robot.


How did they witness it since creation happened prior to humanity?


He quoted a story. He wasn't there. Ask Genesis.


How did they witness things they weren't there to witness?

The bible can't give you witnesses. Archaeology might, but we don't have much in the way of proving the bible true there, at least past a certain part in history.


Because Mesopotamian gods weren't. Hellenization brought about these ideas. Plato stupidly thought that abstract concepts were inherently pure or some crap and that's how we get the omni-stuff.

For some reason I didn't seem to get notified of your posts, or perhaps I missed these.
Okay.

 

[nPeace]

A typical closing argument on this subject is, “You’ll find out I’m right when you’re dead”.

But I won’t find out anything, because I’ll be dead. And it’ll be the same for you.

I don't understand that.
Oh, never mind. I figured it out. You were quoting someone.
That makes life so meaningless though, doesn't it? Could it be that's a worldly philosophical view?

 

[Michael1981]

A typical closing argument on this subject is, “You’ll find out I’m right when you’re dead”.

But I won’t find out anything, because I’ll be dead. And it’ll be the same for you.

That isn't what I said at all. You'll find out when you're meant to find out, either in this age or one of the ages to come.

 

[nPeace]

That boils down to what human assumptions have been made. Humans have assumed that earth should be a paradise with no suffering while the Bible never said so.

As far as I read, it does - not the exact words - but it does tell us that was God's purpose for the earth.
Genesis 1 and 2 states God's purpose for creating the earth, and everything on it - conditions included, and how long they were to live on earth. Psalms 115:16
The Bible goes into giving a detailed description of how it will be after God restores it.
Matthew 6:9; Ephesians 1:10, 11

What scriptures support what you assert?

Primarily, a realm God dwells as a living place is deemed as Heaven. A realm outside of His dwelling realm is a hell. Eden is a Heaven. However ever since Adam was driven out, humans are not inside God's dwelling realm but outside of it. The whole Christianity is about how humans can make their way back to Heaven.

Earth is a bit better than the actually hell simply because God's elect is still on earth. That's what He cares. If not because of Elect, earth may have been more hell like than it is now.

I don't see that in scripture. Could you show me where scripture makes those claims?
I mentioned just a few scriptures above that disagree with your claims. Here are a few more.
Psalms 37:9-11, Proverbs 2:21, 22

Matthew 24:22 (NIV2011)
If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.


From another perspective, earth is a place for all the evil to show up openly under witnessing such that they can be destroyed once and for all, in order to secure a clean future Heaven.

That scripture is speaking of a tribulation to come on the earth, one that would be different to all the others before it, is that not so? How does that lend support to what you are asserting here?
Where does the Bible say that

earth is a place for all the evil to show up openly under witnessing such that they can be destroyed once and for all, in order to secure a clean future Heaven.

 

[Japle]

That isn't what I said at all. You'll find out when you're meant to find out, either in this age or one of the ages to come.

"Meant to find out" by whom?
The idea that we'll somehow find out something after death is a hopeful fantasy. There's exactly zero evidence that consciousness in any way survives after death.

Belief in life after death is a way of dealing with the fear of death and the difficulty of imagining that we will cease to exist.

The universe plodded along just fine for billions of years before our birth and will not stop to mourn when we die. That in no way diminishes the joy we can take in life and the good we can do.

 

[nPeace]

@Bathos Logos I just though of something.
I was looking for @Hockeycowboy's post to you, but not finding it, where he addressed the issues raised in the garden.
I will PM you two videos in a second.
Watch them carefully... with an open mind please, and we can discuss, in this thread, what issues you have with them.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Hey, you’re citing Scriptures. That’s good to see!

However, you stated this…

Humans have assumed that earth should be a paradise with no suffering while the Bible never said so.

Sure it does! All over!

In tandem w/ @nPeace ’s citing, there’s Isaiah 11:6-9 ; Jesus’ own words at Matthew 5:5 ; Revelation 21:3-4 (“the tent of God is with mankind”) ; Psalms 37 10,11,29 ; etc.

Take care, my cousin.

 

[Bathos Logos]

@Bathos Logos I just though of something.
I was looking for @Hockeycowboy's post to you, but not finding it, where he addressed the issues raised in the garden.
I will PM you two videos in a second.
Watch them carefully... with an open mind please, and we can discuss, in this thread, what issues you have with them.

I watched them, and replied in PM, but I will do so again here with the piece of media I crafted to display the full implications of the analogy, which I am pretty sure have not been thought of by yourself or the JWs:

The "rebellious student" gets put up in front of the class to demonstrate his method - and I agree that this is the prudent course of action to take by the teacher - if the student is incorrect, it will be displayed, and if the student is actually correct, then that also will be demonstrated, and the teacher must admit such.

In the analogy, the student here is being likened to Satan, who challenged God's methods and therefore was "put up in front of the class", where all the other students are the other angels of heaven, and God is equated to the teacher. This was done to demonstrate Satan's method of "ruling the Earth" and apparently to watch him fail at that. The huge problem here is that at stake are the lives and untold pain of billions upon billions of human beings. In the student/teacher analogy, all that gets lost is some chalk, right? That's it. He writes and erases, writes and erases. And that, right there in the analogy is the ONLY thing that would represent the humans in the equation - billions of whom must live and die under Satan's rule while he fails at ruling and causes us mountains of torment. All while God is sitting by watching, just so that He can see Satan fail and show the other angels that Satan doesn't know what he's doing. The human lives and suffering are, apparently, pretty inconsequential. As inconsequential as the chalk dust created as the student writes and erases, writes and erases!

I am reminded of those movies (like "Trading Places") where large amounts of suffering are caused, all because beings who think themselves "better" made a $1 bet. That's what this reminds me of. The human beings are of secondary importance, obviously, because their pain and suffering is entirely allowed, all for the sake of making a point to Satan and the other angels. What is most important is obviously the lesson to Satan and the angels... or,what the the video refers to which can be summed up as "God's reputation". Is that a fair trade, in your eyes, as a human being who empathizes with other human beings? All the pain and suffering humanity has ever endured being traded for God's reputation? I don't like that deal at all. Not one bit.

 

[rational experiences]

It's human being men by agreed who said as man they were God.
A the alpha status is man.
Greed. Is your history beginnings.

Agreed in the beginning agreed at our end.

So where is your love brothers of human family and equality?

As it's your agreed brother group God choice that took it away.

And you choose all the human intents of torture and suffering yourself. And enjoyed every moment of every thought you evilly actualized.

Why it stated as your human confession man's greed will destroy us all.

As God earth survived everytime. You however didn't.

Even contemplate blowing up the whole earth just to win.

In life it's you brothers who are the God b s. Artist. Always was.

 

[nPeace]

I watched them, and replied in PM, but I will do so again here with the piece of media I crafted to display the full implications of the analogy, which I am pretty sure have not been thought of by yourself or the JWs:

The "rebellious student" gets put up in front of the class to demonstrate his method - and I agree that this is the prudent course of action to take by the teacher - if the student is incorrect, it will be displayed, and if the student is actually correct, then that also will be demonstrated, and the teacher must admit such.

In the analogy, the student here is being likened to Satan, who challenged God's methods and therefore was "put up in front of the class", where all the other students are the other angels of heaven, and God is equated to the teacher. This was done to demonstrate Satan's method of "ruling the Earth" and apparently to watch him fail at that. The huge problem here is that at stake are the lives and untold pain of billions upon billions of human beings. In the student/teacher analogy, all that gets lost is some chalk, right? That's it. He writes and erases, writes and erases. And that, right there in the analogy is the ONLY thing that would represent the humans in the equation - billions of whom must live and die under Satan's rule while he fails at ruling and causes us mountains of torment. All while God is sitting by watching, just so that He can see Satan fail and show the other angels that Satan doesn't know what he's doing. The human lives and suffering are, apparently, pretty inconsequential. As inconsequential as the chalk dust created as the student writes and erases, writes and erases!

I am reminded of those movies (like "Trading Places") where large amounts of suffering are caused, all because beings who think themselves "better" made a $1 bet. That's what this reminds me of. The human beings are of secondary importance, obviously, because their pain and suffering is entirely allowed, all for the sake of making a point to Satan and the other angels. What is most important is obviously the lesson to Satan and the angels... or,what the the video refers to which can be summed up as "God's reputation". Is that a fair trade, in your eyes, as a human being who empathizes with other human beings? All the pain and suffering humanity has ever endured being traded for God's reputation? I don't like that deal at all. Not one bit.

Thanks for taking the time.
I didn't hear the narrator compare the chalk dust to humanity, but I guess that's your addition. It was creative.

A few important details are in order though.
Detai #1

Humanity is already in problems, through Adam's sin. They are his offspring. His defective production.

As I said before, God would have to either stop Adam from bringing forth degenerate offspring that would "dominate man to his harm", by putting him to death, or stopping procreation.

He chose to do neither, becase it was his will to have humans live on earth, and enjoy life.
Because of Adam's sin, his offspring do not enjoy life to the full, temporarily, but God made a provision for them to enjoy life now... despite problems, and enjoy life as planned, for all eternity... in the future.​

What issues do you take with that?
Detai #2

The issue is an important one, since it involves two important "facets" of all intelligent beings - justice or fairness, and righteousness or what is right.

We only have to look around, to see how important these are.
Even the recent school shootings, and how people feel about police actions, bears that out.
It's crazy out there.

So settling the issue of universal sovereignty - who has the right to rule, and set the standards of right and wrong, is not a trivial matter. It's of utmost importance.

Does God have the right to set those standards? Does he have the right to execute justice upon those who disregard those standards? Or does he not? Is he wrong,

For example, if God had killed Adam and Eve, and Satan, that only proves he can, but is it right, fair and just? Who has the right to decide that?
These questions were raised by Satan, and need to be settled once and for all. So that should they come up again, it's on record, as settled.​

No one can question who has that right after it is proven.
Do you have an issue with that?

I thiink an issue you have is with the lives lost, and the untold suffering, but here is a question.
What's a burst pipe and millions of gallons of water 'wasted' to someone who can not only repair the damage, but make a better water supply system, and source water that never will run dry?

That's what God has purposed to do. Romans 8:18-24
By not altering his purpose because of a disobedient act, God demonstrates his power, for sure.
As almighty, nothing can thwart his purpose. It will be accomplished.
See the video I will PM you, in a second.

Do you have any issues with this?

 

[Bathos Logos]

Thanks for taking the time.
I didn't hear the narrator compare the chalk dust to humanity, but I guess that's your addition. It was creative.

Well, since the analogy doesn't even include the humans that are all also ultimately involved (which, I feel I should add - is even worse than humans being represented, at the very least, by the chalk dust). So, basically, if we just take what the video lines up character to character, we're left with the idea that humans weren't even important enough to mention. That's crap.

A few important details are in order though.
Detai #1

Humanity is already in problems, through Adam's sin. They are his offspring. His defective production.

As I said before, God would have to either stop Adam from bringing forth degenerate offspring that would "dominate man to his harm", by putting him to death, or stopping procreation.

He chose to do neither, becase it was his will to have humans live on earth, and enjoy life.
Because of Adam's sin, his offspring do not enjoy life to the full, temporarily, but God made a provision for them to enjoy life now... despite problems, and enjoy life as planned, for all eternity... in the future.​

What issues do you take with that?

You say that God would have to stop Adam from bringing forth degenerate offspring that would "dominate man to his harm", but what is Satan's role in this? According to the video, this is all "Satan's time" to prove himself as the interactor with Earth, or "controller" or "leader" or something - the video itself isn't too clear - but if the humans are already set to destroy themselves, then what is Satan proving (or not proving, as the case may be)? Remember that the video relies heavily on and directly states (via the analogy) that God is leaving it to Satan to "prove his method is correct". What is Satan's method, or what chance does it even have if the "degenerate children of Adam" (which, let's remember, is the set of all human beings - another instance here of you demonstrating what you think of your neighbors, remember, which they should not take kindly to - because it isn't kind in the least) are already set to screw it all up? How fair is it for God to allow such a challenge when He knows that Satan has no chance, but not because his method is necessarily flawed, but because the game is rigged from the get-go?

Detai #2

The issue is an important one, since it involves two important "facets" of all intelligent beings - justice or fairness, and righteousness or what is right.

So settling the issue of universal sovereignty - who has the right to rule, and set the standards of right and wrong, is not a trivial matter. It's of utmost importance.​

So here I take yet another issue with the consistency being displayed here. You say it is of the utmost importance, but is it? Humans are the lot being ruled over, right? And if that is the case, and your earlier words about degeneracy are accurate, then this is really only the chance to rule over a bunch of degenerates, right? This is all you, my friend, and again, I feel that this sort of thing bears itself out in your speak because you want it both ways. You want to claim that humans are of the utmost importance and God loves them, but you also need to explain why they suffer all over the place, and so you state that they are terrible, wretched things - degenerates. And how, if this is so important, can God justify handing the world over to Satan to do as He will, and doom billions of human beings to torment and suffering? If your video is to be believed, then it is obviously more important for Satan to play out this experiment, and see if his method can best God's. And apparently God is satisfied with the suffering of all those humans, as long as He gets to save face in front of the angels. Right? This is the exact situation layed out in the video, remember - I am not adding or subtracting anything!

Does God have the right to set those standards? Does he have the right to execute justice upon those who disregard those standards? Or does he not? Is he wrong,

Just because He has the might to do so, does that make Him right? By what authority does He have this "right"? His own? Well isn't that convenient?!

For example, if God had killed Adam and Eve, and Satan, that only proves he can, but is it right, fair and just? Who has the right to decide that?

I don't know... you're the one who thinks they have all the answers here (answers that have, so far, only raised more questions!), so you tell me.

These questions were raised by Satan, and need to be settled once and for all. So that should they come up again, it's on record, as settled.

So billions of people suffer at the hands of whatever and whoever, and then what? God just goes on a permanent golf outing after it is all "settled"? And who is keeping this "record" anyway? Does that authority care about the human beings in the equation? Are we even written in? If not... then screw their record! I find myself unable to care about it in the least.​

No one can question who has that right after it is proven.
Do you have an issue with that?

How will it be proven? By God's might? As in, "might makes right"? Do you see where I am going with this? What forces me to accept the outcome? When God comes and cleans everything up, then I can know what? That Satan failed? That God would have played nice in the first place had His authority not been questioned? How would I know that? All I have to go on is what has transpired in my life and what I can witness transpire in the lives of others... so far, this has not informed me to any satisfactory degree about God, let alone anything having to do with His sovereignty or "rights". So yes, I have a big issue with this. Huge issue. God can basically only pronounce that He has the right to do whatever, whenever. That's all He can do. If God simply always has been and can intrinsically wield all this amazing power you suspect that He has, then there is no evidence to prove what you are saying "will be proven". None. Do you understand this?

I thiink an issue you have is with the lives lost, and the untold suffering, but here is a question.
What's a burst pipe and millions of gallons of water 'wasted' to someone who can not only repair the damage, but make a better water supply system, and source water that never will run dry?

Would we praise the plumber who was also capable of putting a stop-gap measure in place that could save billions of lives, for instead letting all those people die while he works out the details for the "ultimate water source" for whoever is left? I sure wouldn't - if I was even among the survivors that is. That would be folly.

 

[nPeace]

What is Satan's role in this?
What is Satan proving (or not proving, as the case may be)?

Evidently you misunderstood.
It's about allowing time to prove whether Satan's claim is true or false.
What's Satan's claim?
(Genesis 3:4-5) . . .the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die. For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”

Satan's claim is that humans do not need God, but can rule themselves, independent of God - deciding for themselves what is right and wrong.

So it's not about Satan. God is simply allowing time for all to see that humans cannot rule themselves successfully without God... and choose their side.
However, with Satan as the world's ruler, it does show the results of his involvement.

This is not about Satan.
God's purpose is to be fulfilled, regardless of what Satan did.
Adam sold mankind into sin and death. God provided a way out.
His purpose is being fulfilled.

He patiently gives people the opportunity and time to choose which side of the issue they are on... because yes, Satan has lost, but people can gain, and once the issue has been settled, there is no need to prove it again.
So, these conditions will never exist again.
All humanity who chooses God's side, gains.
All who reject his sovereignty, like Satan... loses.

Might doesn't make right. That's what the video showed.

By what authority does God have this "right"?
He gave life to those living.
As the source of life, he has that authority.

(Revelation 4:11) . . .“You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”

Suffering is not from God. He lovingly provided a way out of the suffering brought on them by the rebellion of Satan, Adam and Eve.

I understand what your issue is, but I don't see that it's about there being anything wrong with what God has done... which given the circumstances, is both wise and loving, and is both fair and just.

 

[rational experiences]

Father spiritual man in America is the native father of his nation.

Whose guidance caused evil Eurpoean enslavers to fight for human freedom.

And they did. As caused to be conscious mind changed by his heavenly father native recordings.

Why they depict large visions of father in their heavens.

No church but a spiritual father who walks on his land is who taught you. He'd been everywhere in America.

It was his advice that warned when white men come so does nuclear destruction follow.

It was his wArning that said greedy rich men are all of of our life's problems.

He told you American government. Your warning exact. You did not tell yourself. Father said he owned the land in America not some alien AI machine cause.

Healers went to everyone in natural life walking. Everywhere. Owned no building. Administered herbal remedies for free first. Poor humans by your tormenting suffering starvation terms. Rich man I own god now brothers who agreed.

You owned gods nature foods by criminal terms stating no money no food as liars. Humans didn't have money in the first place they had food supplied by nature.

Life was free lived freely. Family.

So today Satanists using that title say they by code..letters are safe. AI terms machine destruction is coded NASA. We're not machines by code. But you're not safe as NASA code says no SATAN clouds.

Answer not yet successful.

Says you are not safe you loose our holy Satan clouds. By metals that only belong in cold melt deep inside of earth.

Particles already collided to be dust. Natural history god earth. Exact.

As you believe in fallout. Now as a machine constant.

Mass gas burning is by UFO sun metal melt accumulating. Old advice known. Melts together cools then vacuum breaks it up as its lightened so gets sucked away. As meant to law holy void keeps life safe.

By natural law. Too much is now gained. As asteroids wandering got ignited again by nuclear science.

So life said light above is holy above us only. Holy water above us safe from holy flame above our heads.

Clouds included in holy water gained.
As it was scientists who said flooding of atmosphere is saving life. But it's a warning sign.

Which you know. Use the same advice as before. Yet consciousness is gone.

The bible teaching was about theist man. Loss of consciousness.

Bible just about consciousness lost. As man didn't own natural creation. God terms did.

Man never science said human man is first position the teaching.

So when you say spaghetti you own a direct reviewed link to the history of life as jesus attack near earth destruction.

And who is followed. As it's certainly not the human spiritual father's advice. Natural father not building designer father copying stone.

Why is God evil as man said what conditions God owned to keep us safe from the evil of God he personally removed.

Evil God then destroyed our life.

As it's men humans who tell the story.

Father's message in my life said science man has made this argument personal.

 

[rational experiences]

When I started being brain burnt by used programming study of our heavens.

I saw an angels eye.

Father said lucky it's all you saw. As that eye changes by causes into a melt entry sun metal body. UFO hot attack.

A long time ago father said it was as depicted in movies. Huge underground copied earth metal layered Seams appeared above as caused by pyramid scientists.

It looked exactly as earths below in seam strata. Where earth dusts had been released from historic.

It was the UFO invasion of life on earth as huge heavenly melded mass.

As below became as above.

Science of man destroyed all life. It's real machine parts instant snap frozen in deep earth digs proof. Space opened into our heavens.

As gases spirit keeps life on earth safe not God of the earth the exact teaching.

Why movies psychic themes depicted it. As we remember by recorded visions that it had happened.

It's what a UFO actually is caused by suns melt of cooled asteroid mass as a new burning release.

The warning why a UFO looked like an Eye. The melted heat that hit Ararat.

It was a stars wandering ark.

Star is either Christ star or a Satan star by known terms. What it supports in our heavens above to below.

 

[Bathos Logos]

Evidently you misunderstood.
It's about allowing time to prove whether Satan's claim is true or false.
What's Satan's claim?
(Genesis 3:4-5) . . .the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die. For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”

But don't we supposedly "know good and bad" now? Isn't that what the fruit literally did? I remember, specifically, the tale about how Adam and Eve suddenly realized they were naked (and mistakenly took that to be "evil" apparently, if we accept the premises and the implications of the parable). So, Satan didn't lie, did he? What lie did he tell? Perhaps that they would "be like God" - though he qualified it with "knowing good and bad".

And the "naked" piece is entirely telling in my opinion as to how naïve and foolish these ancient peoples were. Do you think God views nudity as "evil"? If He does, then I would claim Him an idiot of the most epic proportions. And yet, one of the first things Adam and Eve notice in the story, once they have gained the knowledge of good and evil, is that they are naked. Again, a naïve and ignorant people would believe this to be an "evil". People who feel that they are somehow so far removed from "nature". It's ridiculous, and it is in The Bible.

Satan's claim is that humans do not need God, but can rule themselves, independent of God - deciding for themselves what is right and wrong.

Then I would say he made a pretty good claim. Here we are, on the Earth, trying to do just that. Deciding just that. Where is God in all this? Not to be found. He decided to stay out of it. And so we do, "Rule ourselves". What other choice do we have? We have to do something while God is absent, right? And so Satan is being proven entirely right on this score. Entirely right. We will do what we have to do to rule over ourselves and our peoples. And if you want to claim that we are "failing" I'd like to only point you to the ridiculous growth in population we've seen over the years. By ecological standards, the human race's proliferation is a monumental success. Quite obviously the neutral or good circumstances are outweighing the overwhelmingly bad - otherwise we would die at faster rates than reproducing. But instead, people are living longer, have better access to food and water, more education and access to information, countries attempting to look out for one another and foster one another's successes, people trotting the globe searching for ways to help. Are there bad things that happen? Sure! But are the neutral to good circumstances winning over the bad/evil ones? Any rational person would have to admit that yes, they are. All without God! Who, let's remember, you and your video state is taking a back seat. Not sure what prayer is about if that is the case... but whatever. I can only go on what I an told (since I don't believe a word of this stuff), and what I am being told certainly does not seem to remain consistent in any way.

So it's not about Satan. God is simply allowing time for all to see that humans cannot rule themselves successfully without God... and choose their side.

Here we go with more inconsistency... note what you just said, that "God is simply allowing time for all to see that humans cannot rule themselves", and that it "isn't about Satan", and then you follow it up, directly, with this:

However, with Satan as the world's ruler, it does show the results of his involvement.

The terrible, terrible state of your inconsistent thoughts and beliefs is mind boggling. If I were you, I would seriously just stop talking/writing. I would. If I found myself to be so tied up in knots that I could literally make two contradictory claims one right after the other? I would just stop trying to communicate until I figured out what my problem was.

This is not about Satan.
God's purpose is to be fulfilled, regardless of what Satan did.

I like this one. So God was going to kick Adam and Eve out of The Garden regardless then, right? Or He was going to see if humans could "rule themselves" regardless? So even if Satan hadn't coaxed Eve to eat of the fruit and share it with Adam, God was going to do all this anyway? That's what you're saying. You may not think you are... but that is exactly what you're saying.

Adam sold mankind into sin and death. God provided a way out.
His purpose is being fulfilled.

No... sounds like God was going to do that all along, no matter what Adam did. So much for "free will". Once again... consistency... get some. This is just disgustingly pathetic. I am sure you will excuse yourself easily and assure yourself that I "just don't understand". Just please do one thing for me and keep tabs on how many times you have to think or express that sentiment. Keep track of how many times you have to tell someone "you just don't understand". There could be valuable information waiting for your attention in that.

He patiently gives people the opportunity and time to choose which side of the issue they are on... because yes, Satan has lost

I thought it "is not about Satan"?

All humanity who chooses God's side, gains.
All who reject his sovereignty, like Satan... loses.

This is not even worth addressing.

Might doesn't make right. That's what the video showed.

I don't see that idea represented or addressed in either video. Are you referencing the idea that God took a back seat to Satan's rule or human rule? I'm still not entirely sure which one of these you actually think is going on, because you seem to waffle every other sentence. Besides - I was referencing your own words when I stated that God practices, or takes advantage in a "might makes right" capacity. You are the one to be found stating that God can do as He wishes with human lives because He created those lives. This is you stating that it is okay for God to do anything because He has the power to do so. If I suddenly discovered how to create autonomous life-forms that could live/eat breathe/love/etc., do you think you would agree with my doing anything and everything I wanted with them? Would you be okay with that, if you generally disagreed with how I was treating them - perhaps allowing them to enslave one another, perhaps killing their first born at times, perhaps telling one group of them that it is okay if they want to run in and invade another group and kill who they will and take the females for themselves? All that sound cool to you, as long as I created the life forms?

By what authority does God have this "right"?
He gave life to those living.
As the source of life, he has that authority.

And you stating this just after you said "Might doesn't make right." Do you understand why I believe you to be entirely inconsistent? I mean... you are so inconsistent it is scary. I would question anything at all that you told me or that you stated you believed. You could say you were pro-choice for some reason, and I would suddenly find myself wondering if I shouldn't be pro-choice! That is just how much I am coming to distrust your opinion. You likely couldn't stay consistent with this stuff to save you life. You're already too far gone.

 

[rational experiences]

Basic humans who pretend they are god do illegal activity against God.

O earth is humans science human beginnings.

Notice that total sentence condemned humanity.

A human theist said I know about earth by thesis.

The dusts they wanted to convert gave them the machine then destruction as an inside reaction machine. Of said his own machine beginnings. As it did blow up machines.

As his earth the machine was reacting inside of itself yet it explodes outwardly. Just like earth his God copying body type.

The law.

Thesis I'm safe it's all in the past.

Bio thought I'm now in the present. Bio self life consciousness exact. Lies.

All reactons states I discuss are past only.

God earth kills us reacting now.

So he lied.

What he said the dust I convert was saved also in the past so science says I can make just a dip o in earths mass mining product. React it. But not get a hole like the sun had.

I'm holier.

Lying.

As yes hence your dust scientist did get saved. As sciences thought earths non stop resource. But it wasn't replaced. Dust his highest measure what the theory the God of his science is. Exact place.

Oh no says his mind I'm missing my origin word science explanations.

It's true he said what did get saved from out of the origin earth teaching the reaction itself was the presence dusts.

So he is possessed by destruction in his mind just as taught.

As it was a huge earth mass the hole that never returned it as....be replaced.

He is possessed by his thought why dusts on earth had existed from replaced mass origins.

He is our destroyer.

 

[nPeace]

But don't we supposedly "know good and bad" now? Isn't that what the fruit literally did? I remember, specifically, the tale about how Adam and Eve suddenly realized they were naked (and mistakenly took that to be "evil" apparently, if we accept the premises and the implications of the parable). So, Satan didn't lie, did he? What lie did he tell? Perhaps that they would "be like God" - though he qualified it with "knowing good and bad".

And the "naked" piece is entirely telling in my opinion as to how naïve and foolish these ancient peoples were. Do you think God views nudity as "evil"? If He does, then I would claim Him an idiot of the most epic proportions. And yet, one of the first things Adam and Eve notice in the story, once they have gained the knowledge of good and evil, is that they are naked. Again, a naïve and ignorant people would believe this to be an "evil". People who feel that they are somehow so far removed from "nature". It's ridiculous, and it is in The Bible.

Many people read the Bible as you do, and so they have thes ideas, as well.
For one thing, people think the fruit was like some magic pill that opens the eater's eyes, giving them not only the ability to see... as though they couldn't see before, but also a brain explosion of knowledge of good and bad.

Somehow, that made me think of the inflation theory - those few moments before the Big Bang.

However, there are things I think are worth taking into consideration.
#1

Adam and Eve could both see. They knew what they looked like. They could see each other's nakedness. The Bible says, 'both of them continued to be naked, the man and his wife; yet they were not ashamed.' (Genesis 2:25)

So eating the fruit did not suddenly give them sight. Nor did it cause them to, for the first time, see nakedness.

Eve! You're naked!

Adam! You too. Gross! Yikes! Leaves!!!

Since, they were naked before, but not ashamed, what changed? What caused them to suddenly feel the need to cover themselves?
We can think of children who go naked, but then become conscious of themselves, and cover themselves. Why do they?
They felt uncomfortable with someone focusing their attention on their nakedness? Something like that. Adults can discern more than the stares.

Could it be Adam's and Eve's thinking changed?
After all, the Bible says their eyes became opened.
We know that is not literal, becase their literal eyes were literally opened before.
The expression 'eyes became opened' is used to in a similar way to "eye-opener".
Whatever experience Adam and Eve had, by making the decision to go all the way in disobeying God, it was surprising - unexpected, and evidently, a very uncomfortable feeling.
Hence, unlike previous times, they hid themselves.

I can imagine how wild their thinking became.

WARNING Do not try this at home... or anywhere else.
Just pull the plug of your computer from the wall outlet, and see what I mean.
Adam and Eve disconnected from God. The jolt was not pleasant. The mind was not as it was before.
Some people do not understand sin and imperfection, but that's what Adam and Eve fell into.​

#2

The trees in the Garden were not magical. The Bible says, 'Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree that was pleasing to look at and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.' (Genesis 2:9)

They were trees. Some for eating. Some for looking at.
One was off limits. It was called, "The tree of knowledge of good and bad".
There was another... "The tree of life".

So ask yourself... Did Adam and Eve not have life? So would eating from the tree of life have given them life? They had life already.

God himself said, “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,. . ." (Genesis 3:22)

So Adam and Eve would have gained everlasting life - living forever, if they ate fruit from the tree of life.
Again, it was not a magical tree.​

#3

Knowing good and bad is a good thing. Why would that be something God does not want for his children?
After all, God provided everything that was good for them (Genesis 1:26-31)

As said before, the trees were not magical.
Could it be then, that the 'tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad' represented God's right to decide for Adam and Eve, what was good and bad, and by putting the tree there, and commanding them not to touch it, or eat from it, God was representing that right with this one tree?

Thus, when Adam and Eve disobeyed, they were really showing that they did not respect or even agree with God's right to decide good and bad for them... as encouraged by the serpent.
Adam and Eve thus chose to decide for themselves, what was good and bad - right and wrong.
In other words, Adam and Eve rebelled along with Satan... becoming a god & goddess to themselves
Isn't that what people are doing today.

That would explain why God said, "They had become like one of us in knowing good and bad".
They thus lost out on living forever in that rebellious mindset... being barred from eating from the tree of life, which is also a representation - The tree of life represented God's promise to anyone eating, eternal life.​

Of course, I cannot prove this to you, but it is reasonable to me
Using some thought, coupled with a sincere examination of the Bible... in other words, doing more than a superficial reading, will give us some understanding.
God's spirit is involved in revealing deep things also.
However, they are always willing to adjust their understanding, should more light be shed on the understanding of these things.

What I do know for sure though, is that the trees had no magical powers to impart knowledge BRAM! of good and bad... and ofcourse it is not against God for persons to know good and bad. That's what he wants all to have.
(Proverbs 2:1-12) 1 My son, if you accept my sayings And treasure up my commandments, 2 By making your ear attentive to wisdom And inclining your heart to discernment; 3 Moreover, if you call out for understanding And raise your voice for discernment; 4 If you keep seeking for it as for silver, And you keep searching for it as for hidden treasures; 5 Then you will understand the fear of Jehovah, And you will find the knowledge of God. 6 For Jehovah himself gives wisdom; From his mouth come knowledge and discernment. 7 He treasures up practical wisdom for the upright; He is a shield for those walking in integrity. 8 He watches over the paths of justice, And he will guard the way of his loyal ones. 9 Then you will understand what is righteous and just and fair, The entire course of what is good. 10 When wisdom enters your heart And knowledge becomes pleasant to your soul, 11 Thinking ability will keep watch over you, And discernment will safeguard you, 12 To save you from the bad course, From the man speaking perverse things,

(Deuteronomy 30:15-16) 15 “See, I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad. 16 If you listen to the commandments of Jehovah your God that I am commanding you today, by loving Jehovah your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his judicial decisions, then you will live and multiply, and Jehovah your God will bless you in the land you are going to possess.

Also, Adam and Eve became ashamed because of their thinking, which was in conflict with God's, and they showed it by hiding from him.

 

[nPeace]

Then I would say he made a pretty good claim. Here we are, on the Earth, trying to do just that. Deciding just that. Where is God in all this? Not to be found. He decided to stay out of it. And so we do, "Rule ourselves". What other choice do we have? We have to do something while God is absent, right?

That sounds fair to me.
However, Satan's claim is not that man will decide what is right and wrong.
Satan's claim is that humans do not need God, but can rule themselves successfully, independent of God - deciding for themselves what is right and wrong.

Sorry, I missed the word successfully, before.

And so Satan is being proven entirely right on this score. Entirely right. We will do what we have to do to rule over ourselves and our peoples. And if you want to claim that we are "failing" I'd like to only point you to the ridiculous growth in population we've seen over the years. By ecological standards, the human race's proliferation is a monumental success. Quite obviously the neutral or good circumstances are outweighing the overwhelmingly bad - otherwise we would die at faster rates than reproducing. But instead, people are living longer, have better access to food and water, more education and access to information, countries attempting to look out for one another and foster one another's successes, people trotting the globe searching for ways to help. Are there bad things that happen? Sure! But are the neutral to good circumstances winning over the bad/evil ones? Any rational person would have to admit that yes, they are. All without God! Who, let's remember, you and your video state is taking a back seat. Not sure what prayer is about if that is the case... but whatever. I can only go on what I an told (since I don't believe a word of this stuff), and what I am being told certainly does not seem to remain consistent in any way.

Are the neutral to good circumstances winning over the bad/evil ones?
The answer to that question is not unanimous. Nor is it in favor of those who claim rationality just because they can do so.
So maybe you have some statistics, instead of a chest beating exercise.

I have some statistics here. I can get more for you if that's not satisfactory.
Or maybe you think you are rational, therefore all the others... experts or not, are irrational?
It's a question I'm asking.