Why Does Hamas Kill Civilians?

[rosends]

I'm aware that there's non-Jewish Israelis. It was one generalization to answer another generalization. However, there still aren't equal rights between Jewish and Arab Israelis. They're not even allowed to marry. There's not even a constitution in Israel so the courts basically make it up as they go.

Marriage in Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And no Constitution? How dare they? That puts them in horrible company...

Constitution - The World Factbook

www.cia.gov

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Marriage in Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And no Constitution? How dare they? That puts them in horrible company...

Constitution - The World Factbook

www.cia.gov

And?

I thought the point about the lack of constitution was good to bring up, since your rights aren't guaranteed in Israel, making the problems even worse. Some vote in the Knesset or judge could change it.

 

[Revoltingest]

multi-cultural nonsense.

The situation is the opposite of multi-culturalism.

Islamists do not want Jews in the ME.

Bigotry abounds in all 3 Abrahamics.
But generally, only Muslims & Christians
have endured much public criticism in
the west.

 

[Revoltingest]

False.

Mehola Junction bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Argue with NPR.

Only the last paragraph is my view.
The preceding is from them.

 

[Revoltingest]

And zionist are against Jews that do not support israel.

Funny part is, the majority of zioinst on this earth are christians.

weird fact!

It accounts for USA's blind support of Israel,
& its hostility to Arabs, & Muslims in general.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I heard an interesting extensive piece on NPR.
It was about the history of Hamas.
One thing stood out...
Hamas had targeted military until an American-Israeli
Jew massacred 29 adults & children (injuring 125) at
a Hebron mosque. During protests, Israel killed many
more people.

Cave of the Patriarchs massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That was when Hams began to target civilians.

This doesn't justify anything that anyone does.
It's likely not the only reason Hamas kills civilians.
But it's useful to understand why people feel the
way they do. That can be useful to craft solutions
to conflicts.

No, that massacre would not justify Hamas activities, especially some of the horrors on October 7. So to answer your question, why does Hamas kill civilians? First, because it's a lot easier and safer than trying to kill well-armed IDF soldiers, and second, because it gets some of the desired results. I think, in fact, that Hamas itself is surprised by Israel's response to October 7 -- I truly don't think they calculated that Israel would suddenly become so "ruthless" as to say they will now continue until Hamas is utterly destroyed.

 

[rosends]

And?

I thought the point about the lack of constitution was good to bring up, since your rights aren't guaranteed in Israel, making the problems even worse. Some vote in the Knesset or judge could change it.

and? The claim was that Arabs can't get married in Israel ("They're not even allowed to marry. ") But that article says otherwise.

And your concern over rights must also extend to Canada and the UK as they also lack constitutions. Rights in the US which has a constitution can also be changed by the government or courts by the way.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, that massacre would not justify Hamas activities, especially some of the horrors on October 7.

Note that I said it didn't in the OP.

So to answer your question, why does Hamas kill civilians? First, because it's a lot easier and safer than trying to kill well-armed IDF soldiers, and second, because it gets some of the desired results. I think, in fact, that Hamas itself is surprised by Israel's response to October 7 -- I truly don't think they calculated that Israel would suddenly become so "ruthless" as to say they will now continue until Hamas is utterly destroyed.

I see the more likely possibility as Hamas expecting
Israel to over-react, thereby showing its true colors,
ie, a brutal oppressor & conqueror.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, they don't:

Myth: All Israelis are equal | Decolonize Palestine

Israel's existence as a colonial ethnocracy precludes any possibility for creating an equal society. While useful as a propaganda claim, it falls apart under the most cursory of research.

decolonizepalestine.com

Israel’s hugely controversial “nation-state” law, explained

Supporters call Israel’s new Jewish nation-state law a “defining moment.” Critics say it’s “apartheid.”

www.vox.com

Non-Jews and Jews cannot even legally marry in Israel. Palestinians are not covered by the "law of return", but someone can convert to Judaism, move to Israel and displace a Palestinian family from their homes with the government's blessing. But Palestinians in the diaspora are not allowed to return.

You cannot have an ethnocracy that privileges one group (Jews, in this case) over all others and be democratic. You cannot have a "Jewish state" and be free and democratic at the same time. Israel is an artificial state created through ethnic cleansing. That's the only way they got a Jewish majority in a non-Jewish land - killing and displacing the people who were there before. And the process is still going on.

No matter how many times we provide
evidence, they'll never admit Israel's
apartheid.

 

[rosends]

Argue with NPR.

Only the last paragraph is my view.
The preceding is from them.

Do you recognize that the claim made by NPR is then contradicted by historical fact? It is more useful, instead of writing a letter to a large organization which could care less about facts, to show people not to accept the claims of that organization because the claims run counter to recorded history.

 

[Revoltingest]

Because that’s his background. I usually indicate what someone’s background is.

In this matter, it's particularly important because
Israel apologists typically use the ad hominem
to discredit the poster & the sources.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

and? The claim was that Arabs can't get married in Israel ("They're not even allowed to marry. ") But that article says otherwise.

And your concern over rights must also extend to Canada and the UK as they also lack constitutions. Rights in the US which has a constitution can also be changed by the government or courts by the way.

I meant they're not allowed to marry Jews. Intermarriage is effectly banned, due to only religious marriages from certain approved religious groups being recognized. There's not such thing as civil marriage in Israel. That's discriminatory.

 

[Flankerl]

I meant they're not allowed to marry Jews

False.

The system in use respects the recognised Religions.
Any Religion in which it is allowed to marry "a Jew" it is therefore allowed as per Israeli law.

One Religion where this is allowed is: Islam.

 

[Jimmy]

Wow Reading some more posts it still appears that it’s a complex situation in the Middle East. Give me a break. Like we don’t know who’s wrong?

 

[rosends]

I meant they're not allowed to marry Jews. Intermarriage is effectly banned, due to only religious marriages from certain approved religious groups being recognized. There's not such thing as civil marriage in Israel. That's discriminatory.

Against atheists? Atheist Jews? Muslims? Swedes who want a civil marriage? The Israeli laws leave marriage to various religion and simply don't have a distinct "secular" marriage.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Against atheists? Atheist Jews? Muslims? Swedes who want a civil marriage? The Israeli laws leave marriage to various religion and simply don't have a distinct "secular" marriage.

Why are you basically just repeating what I said? Yes, there's no civil marriage and yes, that is discriminatory. It's another example of Israel not really being free and democratic. It wants to pretend like it's a Western democracy, but that's a lie.

 

[rosends]

Why are you basically just repeating what I said? Yes, there's no civil marriage and yes, that is discriminatory.

But then it is discriminatory against anyone who wants a secular marriage, right? Since it isn't focused on any one racial or ethnic subset, it is not an example of your claim ("there still aren't equal rights between Jewish and Arab Israelis") since this law applies equally to both.

It's another example of Israel not really being free and democratic. It wants to pretend like it's a Western democracy, but that's a lie.

Really? In the US, I can't drive through a red light but a cop can. There are different laws for different people (you should research sacramental exceptions to prohibition). In the US, I can't marry a chair or a dog (AFAIK). In Vatican City a Jew can't get a Jewish wedding. How horrible.

Do you plan on posting similar complaints about all the other countries that limit marriage to particular religions?

Many countries make it hard to marry someone from another religion

Around two dozen countries have no provision for civil marriage

www.economist.com

I guess none of them is "free and democratic".

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But then it is discriminatory against anyone who wants a secular marriage, right? Since it isn't focused on any one racial or ethnic subset, it is not an example of your claim ("there still aren't equal rights between Jewish and Arab Israelis") since this law applies equally to both.

Really? In the US, I can't drive through a red light but a cop can. There are different laws for different people (you should research sacramental exceptions to prohibition). In the US, I can't marry a chair or a dog (AFAIK). In Vatican City a Jew can't get a Jewish wedding. How horrible.

Do you plan on posting similar complaints about all the other countries that limit marriage to particular religions?

Many countries make it hard to marry someone from another religion

Around two dozen countries have no provision for civil marriage

www.economist.com

I guess none of them is "free and democratic".

Wow, you really don't have an argument at all. I posted a longer article about the inequalities between Jewish and Arab Israelis in Israeli law and society, but it keeps being ignored. But you bring up nonsense like red lights, chairs and then want to compare Israel to Vatican City and Indonesia? Wtf. Well, at least you agree that Israel is not a Western style democracy, although you're taking a rather laborious path to admitting it. Why shouldn't non-religious Israelis or Israelis not part of the approved religions be allowed marriage? If people want an interfaith marriage, why should the state ban it? You keep pointing to other countries with ****ty laws like that, as if that excuses it.

Now let's see you admit to the fact that Israel became a "Jewish state" by ethnically cleansing the Palestinians, and that's how they got their artificial Jewish majority.

 

[rosends]

Wow, you really don't have an argument at all.

You mean besides all the facts I posted and questions for you I raised. Got it.

I posted a longer article about the inequalities between Jewish and Arab Israelis in Israeli law and society, but it keeps being ignored.

I have read the artcile -- it complains about the law of return. Do you know how many countries have similar laws? And yet it is singling out Israel. It doesn't mention the laws favorable to Arabs or non-Jews in Israel. Did you notice that? It also then makes dumb illogical connections. For example, it makes the claim that laws are discriminatory because Arabs are required to do military service, so those who don't serve don't get paid by the government after discharge. But they are allowed to serve and get the same benefits. They just aren't obligated before the fact. After service, all receive the same benefits.

Then you have such brilliance as the "unfair" laws regarding dismissing a member of parliament. The basic law makes it clear that there are 3 things that can get you kicked out of having a seat in the government:

" (1) denial of the existence of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state; (2) incitement to racism; and (3) support for armed struggle of an enemy state or a terrorist organization against Israel."

I guess this is unfair to the members of the government who are against the country. In the US, you can get expelled from congress for "disorderly behaviour" according to the constitution (I, 5, par 2). That's clearly unfair to those who wish to be disorderly. And America calls itself a democracy!

But you bring up nonsense like red lights, chairs and then want to compare Israel to Vatican City and Indonesia? Wtf.

Sure. You didn't look up that they have parallel laws?

Why shouldn't non-religious Israelis or Israelis not part of the approved religions be allowed marriage? If people want an interfaith marriage, why should the state ban it? You keep pointing to other countries with ****ty laws like that, as if that excuses it.

Not that it excuses it, but that it shows that the practice is not one endemic to Israel and yet I haven't seen any threads complaining about it elsewhere. If those debates are raging, please link to the threads. Thanks.

Now let's see you admit to the fact that Israel became a "Jewish state" by ethnically cleansing the Palestinians, and that's how they got their artificial Jewish majority.

You really don't understand that with 20% Muslim population and the population of Arabs of all sorts INCREASING, a claim of ethnic cleansing is just plain silly.

 

[Flankerl]

"ethnic cleansing"

*yawn*