Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering

[Serenity7855]

If your God exists then why does He allow children to starve and pedophiles to exist. It is one of the most frequently asked questions of atheists and one that they think dismisses the existence of God. On another thread and another topic I recieved this post that caused me to think that maybe it is not something that Christians know or believe. Maybe it was lost with the creeds?

If what you say about starving children were true and that is evidence of Satan's alleged influence, where is your God to stop this? If pedophiles, which I am a survivor of, were your proof, why did God not stop my grandfather's predalictions? And so on for the rest of your alleged proofs. If Satan has this much more power over your God, why do you not worship him?

I believe that the answer is so obvious that we do not consider it. You first have to consider why you are here, what is this life all about and what happens to us when it is all over? Why are we here?
Coming here allows you to:

• Receive a physical body.
• Exercise agency and learn to choose between good and evil.
• Learn and gain experience that will help you become more like your Heavenly Father.
• Form family relationships that may become eternal.
• To be tried and tested in the flesh to see if we will have sufficient faith if God to keep His commandments.

Your life didn’t begin at birth and it won’t end at death. Before you came to earth, your spirit lived with Heavenly Father who created you. You knew Him, and He knew and loved you. It was a happy time during which you were taught God’s plan of happiness and the path to true joy.

One thing that makes this life so hard sometimes is that we’re out of God’s physical presence. Not only that, but we can’t remember our pre-earth life which means we have to operate by faith rather than sight. God didn’t say it would be easy, but He promised His spirit would be there when we needed Him. Even though it feels like it sometimes, we’re not alone in our journey.

So what is faith? To have faith is to “hope for things which are not seen, which are true” Hebrews 11:1). Each day you act upon things you hope for, even before you see the end result. This is similar to faith. Faith in God is more than a theoretical belief in Him. To have faith in God is to trust Him, to have confidence in Him, and to be willing to act on your belief in Him. It is a principle of action and power. That is the test that we are here to take. The test of our faith. To make choices that reflect upon that faith in Christ. If we had a perfect knowledge of Him then we could not be tried and tested by our faith because a perfect knowledge and faith could not exist together, there is either one or the other. There is a Mormon scripture that discribes this very well

Alma 32: 17-21

17 Yea, there are many who do say: If thou wilt show unto us a sign from heaven, then we shall know of a surety; then we shall believe.

18 Now I ask, is this faith? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to believe, for he knoweth it.

19 And now, how much more cursed is he thatknoweth the will of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into transgression?

20 Now of this thing ye must judge. Behold, I say unto you, that it is on the one hand even as it is on the other; and it shall be unto every man according to his work.

21 And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

And that is the reaso why God cannot intervene and prevent the children from starving or take away the temptations of the pedophile. As soon as He does then the whole meaning of our existence will no longer be tenable and we would all be subjected to Satan. It is not that God turns His back on those who are suffering, I am sure that He weeps for them and longs to do something to alliviate their suffering, however, He cannot do that without destroying the entire Plan of Salvation by taking away the essential ingredient of faith.

Now, that is my belief. As I believe that God is a personage of infinite knowledge, I believe, so the entire Plan of Salvation is perfect with every single eventuality being covered. What do you think?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If your God exists then why does He allow children to starve and pedophiles to exist. It is one of the most frequently asked questions of atheists and one that they think dismisses the existence of God. On another thread and another topic I recieved this post that caused me to think that maybe it is not something that Christians know or believe. Maybe it was lost with the creeds?


I believe that the answer is so obvious that we do not consider it. You first have to consider why you are here, what is this life all about and what happens to us when it is all over? Why are we here?
Coming here allows you to:

• Receive a physical body.
• Exercise agency and learn to choose between good and evil.
• Learn and gain experience that will help you become more like your Heavenly Father.
• Form family relationships that may become eternal.
• To be tried and tested in the flesh to see if we will have sufficient faith if God to keep His commandments.

Your life didn’t begin at birth and it won’t end at death. Before you came to earth, your spirit lived with Heavenly Father who created you. You knew Him, and He knew and loved you. It was a happy time during which you were taught God’s plan of happiness and the path to true joy.

One thing that makes this life so hard sometimes is that we’re out of God’s physical presence. Not only that, but we can’t remember our pre-earth life which means we have to operate by faith rather than sight. God didn’t say it would be easy, but He promised His spirit would be there when we needed Him. Even though it feels like it sometimes, we’re not alone in our journey.

So what is faith? To have faith is to “hope for things which are not seen, which are true” Hebrews 11:1). Each day you act upon things you hope for, even before you see the end result. This is similar to faith. Faith in God is more than a theoretical belief in Him. To have faith in God is to trust Him, to have confidence in Him, and to be willing to act on your belief in Him. It is a principle of action and power. That is the test that we are here to take. The test of our faith. To make choices that reflect upon that faith in Christ. If we had a perfect knowledge of Him then we could not be tried and tested by our faith because a perfect knowledge and faith could not exist together, there is either one or the other. There is a Mormon scripture that discribes this very well

Alma 32: 17-21

17 Yea, there are many who do say: If thou wilt show unto us a sign from heaven, then we shall know of a surety; then we shall believe.

18 Now I ask, is this faith? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to believe, for he knoweth it.

19 And now, how much more cursed is he thatknoweth the will of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into transgression?

20 Now of this thing ye must judge. Behold, I say unto you, that it is on the one hand even as it is on the other; and it shall be unto every man according to his work.

21 And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

And that is the reaso why God cannot intervene and prevent the children from starving or take away the temptations of the pedophile. As soon as He does then the whole meaning of our existence will no longer be tenable and we would all be subjected to Satan. It is not that God turns His back on those who are suffering, I am sure that He weeps for them and longs to do something to alliviate their suffering, however, He cannot do that without destroying the entire Plan of Salvation by taking away the essential ingredient of faith.

Now, that is my belief. As I believe that God is a personage of infinite knowledge, I believe, so the entire Plan of Salvation is perfect with every single eventuality being covered. What do you think?

To tell you honestly, I don't see a pedophile no different than a thief and no different than a murderer. If they are christians, and they come to repentence, it's not "why does god allow suffering" it's "how are they maturing spiritually?" or "what is in their life can their christian peers help him or her with to grow as god wants them to"

From an atheist perspective...

It shouldn't be "why does god cause suffering." I mean, if you're an atheist, why ask the question? Unless there is some belief or maybe playing with the possibility that a non-existent god can allow something to happen. It is illogical.

But then, there are different types of atheists.

Why does god allow suffering? I never asked that question. Doesn't make sense. God to me is life, plan and simple. No prophets. No book. No personification of the unknown. Just life.

We have our own responsibilities to ourselves, to others, to those who passed, and to those who come after us. We have a responsibility to take care of our environment and be one with what christians call creation. When we do things like stealing or taking what is not ours, we are breaking survival morals. Animals steal for survival. Humans are not special. We do things for survival but outside of the natural law (which is supernatural interconnected), our society starts to break down.

Pedophiles are no different than murders and they are no different than my lying to my friend. We need to see how we can help each person and see them on the same level with the same unconditional love. If we categorize people "these are the rich homeless vs the poor homeless" what are we really doing? Probably just the same as they are doing to others. However, I have more respect for someone who knows he murders someone than a person who purposefully lie. The murderer (or pedephile) maybe spiritually growing and accept his faults while the lier is tossed aside because we excuse his faults to look at others we think have bigger ones.

That is life. God doesn't allow it and god does allow it. We are interrelated within god and through the spirits and people on earth, we live the best we can through birth, age, sickness, and death. It's not a logical question to ask why does god allow suffering.

Even more so, how can one answer it? Christians find so many answers to these questions but the source or responsibility for these sins thief to murder is from us. Looking at both christian and atheist, why does everything have to be about god?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I do not appreciate the concept of a deity who places us here and allows us to go through hellish experiences as a mere test of our love for or faith in him. I don't recall consenting to it. It's like signing a contract while you're drugged up and don't remember it at all. Would you view that as ethical to hold a person to that? It just comes off as cruel. Pain and suffering are not illusions. They are very real things that cause lasting damage throughout our lives. We are not toys. He's the one who came up with this plan of salvation, he could've done whatever he wanted. But he chose to make it extremely hard and to distance himself from his creatures. That's not how a loving parent acts. If a human parent did that, they'd get in trouble with the law. Too bad we don't have such standards for deities.

 

[Deathbydefault]

If your God exists then why does He allow children to starve and pedophiles to exist. It is one of the most frequently asked questions of atheists and one that they think dismisses the existence of God. On another thread and another topic I recieved this post that caused me to think that maybe it is not something that Christians know or believe. Maybe it was lost with the creeds?

That questions original purpose was likely to install critical thinking into the minds of believers, to note inconsistencies in their logic.
Of course that argument and it's counter get made daily, so it's lost a good bit of weight.

Atheists tend to follow humanism, more often than not, and these questions can sort of be traced back to that.
The reason they are asked in the first place is because whatever god might to exist, it's obviously not humane.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

If your God exists then why does He allow children to starve and pedophiles to exist. It is one of the most frequently asked questions of atheists and one that they think dismisses the existence of God. On another thread and another topic I recieved this post that caused me to think that maybe it is not something that Christians know or believe. Maybe it was lost with the creeds?



I believe that the answer is so obvious that we do not consider it. You first have to consider why you are here, what is this life all about and what happens to us when it is all over? Why are we here?
Coming here allows you to:

• Receive a physical body.
• Exercise agency and learn to choose between good and evil.
• Learn and gain experience that will help you become more like your Heavenly Father.
• Form family relationships that may become eternal.
• To be tried and tested in the flesh to see if we will have sufficient faith if God to keep His commandments.

Your life didn’t begin at birth and it won’t end at death. Before you came to earth, your spirit lived with Heavenly Father who created you. You knew Him, and He knew and loved you. It was a happy time during which you were taught God’s plan of happiness and the path to true joy.

One thing that makes this life so hard sometimes is that we’re out of God’s physical presence. Not only that, but we can’t remember our pre-earth life which means we have to operate by faith rather than sight. God didn’t say it would be easy, but He promised His spirit would be there when we needed Him. Even though it feels like it sometimes, we’re not alone in our journey.

So what is faith? To have faith is to “hope for things which are not seen, which are true” Hebrews 11:1). Each day you act upon things you hope for, even before you see the end result. This is similar to faith. Faith in God is more than a theoretical belief in Him. To have faith in God is to trust Him, to have confidence in Him, and to be willing to act on your belief in Him. It is a principle of action and power. That is the test that we are here to take. The test of our faith. To make choices that reflect upon that faith in Christ. If we had a perfect knowledge of Him then we could not be tried and tested by our faith because a perfect knowledge and faith could not exist together, there is either one or the other. There is a Mormon scripture that discribes this very well

Alma 32: 17-21

17 Yea, there are many who do say: If thou wilt show unto us a sign from heaven, then we shall know of a surety; then we shall believe.

18 Now I ask, is this faith? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to believe, for he knoweth it.

19 And now, how much more cursed is he thatknoweth the will of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into transgression?

20 Now of this thing ye must judge. Behold, I say unto you, that it is on the one hand even as it is on the other; and it shall be unto every man according to his work.

21 And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

And that is the reaso why God cannot intervene and prevent the children from starving or take away the temptations of the pedophile. As soon as He does then the whole meaning of our existence will no longer be tenable and we would all be subjected to Satan. It is not that God turns His back on those who are suffering, I am sure that He weeps for them and longs to do something to alliviate their suffering, however, He cannot do that without destroying the entire Plan of Salvation by taking away the essential ingredient of faith.

Now, that is my belief. As I believe that God is a personage of infinite knowledge, I believe, so the entire Plan of Salvation is perfect with every single eventuality being covered. What do you think?

Let me cut your rhetoric at the source.

If children die early then they do not have the time to

• Exercise agency and learn to choose between good and evil.
• Learn and gain experience that will help you become more like your Heavenly Father.
• Form family relationships that may become eternal.
• To be tried and tested in the flesh to see if we will have sufficient faith if God to keep His commandments.

So you just disproved your argument.

 

[Skwim]

If your God exists then why does He allow children to starve and pedophiles to exist. It is one of the most frequently asked questions of atheists and one that they think dismisses the existence of God. On another thread and another topic I recieved this post that caused me to think that maybe it is not something that Christians know or believe. Maybe it was lost with the creeds?. . .

. . .What do you think?

I think you're preaching, which is against the rules.

Let me cut your rhetoric at the source.

If children die early then they do not have the time to

• Exercise agency and learn to choose between good and evil.
• Learn and gain experience that will help you become more like your Heavenly Father.
• Form family relationships that may become eternal.
• To be tried and tested in the flesh to see if we will have sufficient faith if God to keep His commandments.

So you just disproved your argument.

But children don't count. They're obviously not real people. If they were real people who counted then they would be able to

• Exercise agency and learn to choose between good and evil.
• Learn and gain experience that will help you become more like your Heavenly Father.
• Form family relationships that may become eternal.
• To be tried and tested in the flesh to see if we will have sufficient faith if God to keep His commandments.

So children are no more people than are sperms and an egg.

.​

 

[Noa]

Just some friendly advice. It is rarely helpful to over-simplify the problem of evil and make it seem like a trite concern. Theologians have been debating it and coming up with different answers for centuries and continue to do so. It is a serious topic that does not have an 'obvious' answer as you claim. Theodicy is not a simple topic.

 

[Serenity7855]

Let me cut your rhetoric at the source.

If children die early then they do not have the time to

• Exercise agency and learn to choose between good and evil.
• Learn and gain experience that will help you become more like your Heavenly Father.
• Form family relationships that may become eternal.
• To be tried and tested in the flesh to see if we will have sufficient faith if God to keep His commandments.

So you just disproved your argument.

That is a very good question, however, as I said, the plan of salvation is perfect so God made provisions for that. There were those in the pre-existence that fought so hard for God and were so valiant that a lifetime in mortality was not required for them. Those are the same souls who we think leave this earth prematurely, were so valiant that a lifetime in the flesh was not necessary, therefore, these children will by-pass the judgement bar and go straight to the highest Kingdoms of heaven to live with God. In answer to you statement, children who die early do not need time, they have already proven themself and their time here is long enough to reflect just how valiant they were.

 

[Thief]

God gave Man dominion.
we are suppose to be working out the problems and moving toward peace

God is willing to sit back and wait
eternity is on His side

 

[Thief]

I do not appreciate the concept of a deity who places us here and allows us to go through hellish experiences as a mere test of our love for or faith in him. I don't recall consenting to it. It's like signing a contract while you're drugged up and don't remember it at all. Would you view that as ethical to hold a person to that? It just comes off as cruel. Pain and suffering are not illusions. They are very real things that cause lasting damage throughout our lives. We are not toys. He's the one who came up with this plan of salvation, he could've done whatever he wanted. But he chose to make it extremely hard and to distance himself from his creatures. That's not how a loving parent acts. If a human parent did that, they'd get in trouble with the law. Too bad we don't have such standards for deities.

and we are in a position to judge God?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That is a very good question, however, as I said, the plan of salvation is perfect so God made provisions for that. There were those in the pre-existence that fought so hard for God and were so valiant that a lifetime in mortality was not required for them. Those are the same souls who we think leave this earth prematurely, were so valiant that a lifetime in the flesh was not necessary, therefore, these children will by-pass the judgement bar and go straight to the highest Kingdoms of heaven to live with God. In answer to you statement, children who die early do not need time, they have already proven themself and their time here is long enough to reflect just how valiant they were.

So apparently people who live long lives and deal with many hardships were really bad during their "pre-existence" and so they deserve it? That sounds a lot like the common misconception of Karma.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

and we are in a position to judge God?

Sure we are, especially since Abrahamic theists claim that God has a definite personality and has made himself known to humanity through messengers.

 

[Serenity7855]

Just some friendly advice. It is rarely helpful to over-simplify the problem of evil and make it seem like a trite concern. Theologians have been debating it and coming up with different answers for centuries and continue to do so. It is a serious topic that does not have an 'obvious' answer as you claim. Theodicy is not a simple topic.

If you think that I have over simplified it then it is because I do not want Satan, or any of his cohorts, to see that it bothers me. It is complex, however, my introduction was intended to be a simplification that would be understood by all and sundry. Of course it is not a trite concern, we will be judged by how well we do in overcoming it and the choices we make in doing it. It is the method by which we are tried and tested. Satan is no foul who knows all of the tricks and will use them in order to lead us carefully down to hell.

 

[Thief]

Sure we are, especially since Abrahamic theists claim that God has a definite personality and has made himself known to humanity through messengers.

maybe you could start with the messenger....
and some consideration to the audience he had to deal with

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

maybe you could start with the messenger....
and some consideration to the audience he had to deal with

If you're referring to Christ, he chose not to make his message clear to people and he did it on purpose - Matthew 13:10-11, Matthew 13:34, Mark 4:34, John 10:6, etc. So that's his fault. Apparently God likes to play games.

 

[Serenity7855]

So apparently people who live long lives and deal with many hardships were really bad during their "pre-existence" and so they deserve it? That sounds a lot like the common misconception of Karma.

No, that is a non-sequitur. It does not necessarily follow that because of the children who die young do not require a lengthy mortal probation that those who are wicked get longer. That is speculation based on bias.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No, that is a non-sequitur. It does not necessarily follow that because of the children who die young do not require a lengthy mortal probation that those who are wicked get longer. That is speculation based on bias.

And your explanation just sounds like an emotionally acceptable rationalization for the deaths of children. I guess that's supposed to make their parents feel better? I'm sure they'd rather have their children with them.

I was just following your logic to its conclusion, anyway. Going by what you said about kids, then what I said about adults isn't too far-fetched.

 

[Demonslayer]

and we are in a position to judge God?

Sure, why not? God is a punk and needs a swift kick in the seat of his gigantic pants.

 

[Demonslayer]

children who die young

Young? What about the millions of stillborns and miscarriages God causes? Way to go God.

 

[Demonslayer]

because I do not want Satan, or any of his cohorts, to see that it bothers me.

I'm going to tell him!