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Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I wonder where agnostics getting their tenet? From a fastasy books perhaps
I just realize that I hardly have myself figured out, I know so very little and what I do know comes from very limited sources, and because I usually can't recall what I had for breakfast then how can I ever really be expected to know anything about some sort of deity, should one exist. I'm only human after all, and we hardly know how our own home works and what it looks like.

Not really! The pot did not follow the will of the Potter. Therefore, one cannot blame the Potter for the fault of the pot.
Have you ever thrown pottery? If a pot collapses, unless it's because of a freak accident, such as someone tripping into it, it is the potters fault.

You are suggesting that God created the evil from the beginning, that God is the author of sin. The devil did not follow the will of God in the garden of eden, but his/LDS own will. Therefore, the devil has his own free will against the will of God and pursued this will in the garden of Eden. [/quote}
Then why, in Job, did Satan need God's permission?


You mean adulterate the word of God? Example please of words in the Hebrew scriptures that Christians manipulated/adulterated.
Satan is one such word, which is actually a verb. The several books that have been omitted is further proof. Even the Bibles Baptists and Catholics read are different.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Where do you base such a conclusion that “you can’t all be correct”?
If you say you don’t know what a means?

From Christians who claim to be true Christians.

Christians can't seem to agree with what this means.

If Christians can't consistently define themselves how is anyone else expected to know what it means?
 

Triumphant_Loser

Libertarian Egalitarian
Do you know any other religions in the history of mankind that has god/gods before the God of Genesis chapter 1:1 before and after that verse? There is none! From eternity into time there is no other god/gods but the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Actually there is. Hinduism, Greek Polytheism, Egyptian Polytheism, Aboriginal Dreamstime religions, and Zoroastrianism all predate the Jewish and Christian religions.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Again, I have to base my belief in the bible. All these religions are nonexistence before the God of Genesis and that is, before chapter 1:1 and after chapter 1:1.

Sure, most beliefs have some form of sacred scripture which each must choose on faith to accept as true. You make your choice for personal reasons that you genuinely believe are correct same as anyone else.

However you are relying on the Bible's claim that it is the first. So it remains a faith claim which you are free to make. Anyone else is just as free to accept other claims on faith.


Do you know any other religions in the history of mankind that has god/gods before the God of Genesis chapter 1:1 before and after that verse? There is none! From eternity into time there is no other god/gods but the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jaoob.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

“I am Alpha and Omega” meaning no other gods except the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob could fit in between the beginning and ending of time and into eternity with the believers.
Sure the Hindu had different Gods long before the Judeans show up on the scene. However since your claim is based on faith, no reason for you to accept that.

It is easy to point out that both Jews and Muslims accept the books of Moses as religious scripture. So two other religions at least accept the same claim on faith. I believe Baha'i does as well.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I gave you enough answers to all these repeated questions you have. Why are you always answering my questions to you with questions.
Sorry, I don't remember what your answers were. I'll keep it simple, yes or no.

Does God know the beginning and ending of the story?

Did God put the temptation of the forbidden fruit in front of Adam and Eve and allow the tempter into the garden?

Did God plan and layout all the events that are being played out by mankind?
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
From Christians who claim to be true Christians.

Christians can't seem to agree with what this means.

If Christians can't consistently define themselves how is anyone else expected to know what it means?



This is a Christian----- One Who disowns themselves to follow Jesus( few can) Matt 16:24.--a very difficult task to accomplish.

Ephesians 4:22-24---- One strips off the old personality( worker of iniquity)and puts on the new personality( righteousness) ---Very hard in a satan ruled system of things, one surely wouldn't follow the worlds ways, nor participate in their worldly traditions, Jesus even taught could be hated, like they were back then.

And Jesus taught, proof of ones love( not lip service) was by learning all of his truths and applying all of his truths in ones daily life( this is listening) And Jesus taught---Man does not live by bread alone, but by every utterance from God--- there are pages and pages of utterances--it takes years of study to accomplish learning and applying every utterance--it keeps one busy and out of the world.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Yeah, I am really very serious about my belief. Credibility? I got no problem expressing it.

Credibility always lies on how serious one’s belief is that makes it a problem for others who can not understand. Therefore, credibility became a very serious problem to those people who oppose someone’s belief. They are not sure where they stand at all.

IOW, as Elvis Presley or John Lennon wrote: “don’t criticize what you don’t understand” but I think it was Mick Jagger said that.
Sounds more like Dylan, but never mind that now, I think I've got it . I can read the Bible and question it. And I can question your interpretation of it. But, it is impossible for me to know the truth, because I don't believe it is the truth.

But, once I believe, then I will think like you and agree with you, right? Or, will I be like a Catholic? Or like a JW? Will I be like the Pentecostals and speak in tongues? Or, maybe I'll be a Calvinist? Or a Lutheran? Or a Methodist? Or a Baptist? Or, none of these? Should I just be a plain old Bible-believing non-denominational Christian?

But, how will I know my interpretation of the Bible is correct? Oh yeah, God, through the Holy Spirit, will teach me the true way to interpret it. But, don't all "Christians" claim that? And, didn't you learn your interpretation from a Bible teacher? Huh, I hope you checked him out to find out if he was credible or not?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Exactly a “parable” meaning God was telling Isaiah about what happened to Lucifer/good before he became bad/Satan the devil.

Before the fall of Lucifer he was good. Lucifer sinned against God then he became Satan the devil or an Adversary of God in the Garden of Eden. That is why his name is Lucifer D. Satan or LDS [no other meaning intended here]

Lk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Do you know the right meaning of Lucifer in the Ancient Hebrew text or the LXX/OG? Lucifer!
Maybe it is time to get Jews involved. Here's a link to a site comparing the Jewish view of The Satan to the Christian view. This is part of what it said:

It is very important to understand the difference between the Jewish understanding of Satan and the Christian understanding of Satan. First of all, in doing a quick search of the Hebrew and Christian bibles, we find a remarkable difference. In the Jewish bible (Tanakh), we find three separate references to Satan (the book of Job is considered one reference because it is one continuous story). However, in the New Testament, a book 1/3 the size of the Hebrew bible, we find 35 references to Satan. If we add the word “devil” to the search, we get an additional 32 references in the New Testament. In total, a search using different euphemisms for Satan leaves us with well over a hundred references. So, the first thing we need to understand is that in Judaism, HaSatan is not a main focus of our relationship with HaShem (G-d). Whereas, Christianity almost seems preoccupied with him.

This applies only to passages referring to Satan as a proper name – the angelic being. The word Satan is actually used many times in the Tanakh, and it means an adversary, obstacle or stumbling block.

Besides the shear pre-occupation with Satan, we find another very major, fundamental difference between the Jewish understanding of Satan and the Christian understanding of him.

In Christianity, Satan is an enemy of G-d, an opposing force, and something very bad. In Christianity, Satan has a level of power that is considered almost equal to that of G-d. In the Christian bible (2 Corinthians 4:3-4), Satan is called the god of this world. However, in Judaism Satan is an agent of G-d, created by G-d for a specific purpose, and something very good. Satan is simply an agent of G-d, just as all the other angels are simply agents of G-d. This is why we frequently see passages where the author appears to interchange G-d and an angel (leading to the often erroneous Christian concept of a christophony).

If we take a look at Isaiah 45:7, we see that Hashem is the creator of everything, as the text says, “bringing forth light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil, I am G-d who does all these things.” In the Jewish bible, everything is under the jurisdiction of G-d and under His power – all forces, even evil forces. Everything comes from G-d, He created everything, good and evil. That being the case, Satan is not a rival of G-d, he is a messenger of G-d and unable to do anything outside of G-d’s will.
I'm sorry but I think Christian did manipulate the Jewish Bible to form their religion. I don't believe The Adversary was named The Bright Morning Star before his alleged fall. The Vulgate is where the Latin word lucifer comes from. Why would that name take precedence over the Hebrew word or the Greek word? Shouldn't they also be the name of The Satan?

But, as far as the OP goes, the Jewish interpretation changes everything. God, according to them, did create all and is responsible for all.
 

JM2C

CHRISTIAN
The whole point of the analogy in the Bible with the pots and the potter is that our desires don't matter. God has picked a purpose for each of us, and if we don't like it, too bad.

In any case, if we do have a tendency to vary from what we're "supposed" to do, whose fault would that be? Again, it falls back on the designer or the manufacturer.
Specifically a Pencil is design only for writing. If I use a pencil to hammer a nail and break it, can I return it to the manufacturer? No! Because I did not follow the specification of the pencil.

How would one know which way one should vary? According to you, “if we do have a tendency to vary from what we're "supposed" to do, whose fault would that be?”

From your statement we human know that there are two specific options. IOW, we do have a choice to follow from the two specific options given to us by God, don‘t we? And that is, to go against God, or to be with God. IOW, these are the specifications of God just as the Pencil manufacturer has its own specification.

If one desires to go against God, would that be consider a defective product of God? No! because God gave human two specific choices and those are, against God or be with God. Both choices of human desires really matters to God, as the Pencil really matters to the manufacturer, and both are according to the specifications given by God and the manufacturer of the Pencil. Either one if we follow according to the specific instructions cannot blame neither one nor both.
 

JM2C

CHRISTIAN
Sure, most beliefs have some form of sacred scripture which each must choose on faith to accept as true. You make your choice for personal reasons that you genuinely believe are correct same as anyone else.

However you are relying on the Bible's claim that it is the first. So it remains a faith claim which you are free to make. Anyone else is just as free to accept other claims on faith.


Sure the Hindu had different Gods long before the Judeans show up on the scene. However since your claim is based on faith, no reason for you to accept that.

It is easy to point out that both Jews and Muslims accept the books of Moses as religious scripture. So two other religions at least accept the same claim on faith. I believe Baha'i does as well.
Study the timeline for better understanding.
 

JM2C

CHRISTIAN
Not that I doubt their sincerity or yours. Man is quite capable of fooling himself into belief. However you can't all be correct. Not only of Christianity, but people of other faiths are sincere as well.
Where do you base such a conclusion that “you can’t all be correct”?
If you say you don’t know what a
"True" Christianity, I honestly don't know what that means.
means?

Logic and reason failed you on this one. Your reasoning did not come from logic at all.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
So how does one know if their faith is genuine?
If they perceive the expected results of their faith they've found the validation they seek.
That would depend on what a faith promises. Christianity's promises an experience with God and a relationship with him. I would suggest that that is the goal and constitutes no only evidence to the individual but subjective proof. I cannot evaluate all other faiths but the other big 3 would be problematic. I do not think it possible for the average believer in Judaism, Islam, or Hinduism to know this side of too late if their faith was genuine. They do not even offer any response from God (in general). That is one on the reasons I eventually rejected them and looked at Christianity. They are hollow intellectual agreement issues not experientially justified.

Your faith is validated by what? Or should faith remain unvalidated? I mean just to make sure you are not relying on your perception... If there is some actuality to your belief, how do you judge that?
My faith is proven to me by it's success in provoking a response from God. It is objectively validating by thousands of lines of evidence in the fields of history, morality, philosophy, science, etc....... Other faiths may have a partial claim concerning the latter but virtually none concerning the former. Faith as merely intellectual concept to a hypothesis is almost meaningless IMO. My faith is based on experiencing God.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Specifically a Pencil is design only for writing. If I use a pencil to hammer a nail and break it, can I return it to the manufacturer? No! Because I did not follow the specification of the pencil.

How would one know which way one should vary? According to you, “if we do have a tendency to vary from what we're "supposed" to do, whose fault would that be?”

From your statement we human know that there are two specific options. IOW, we do have a choice to follow from the two specific options given to us by God, don‘t we? And that is, to go against God, or to be with God. IOW, these are the specifications of God just as the Pencil manufacturer has its own specification.

If one desires to go against God, would that be consider a defective product of God? No! because God gave human two specific choices and those are, against God or be with God.
Yes! Because God was the one who implanted those choices in God and gave the person a tendency to choose one over the other.

Both choices of human desires really matters to God, as the Pencil really matters to the manufacturer, and both are according to the specifications given by God and the manufacturer of the Pencil. Either one if we follow according to the specific instructions cannot blame neither one nor both.
You're conflating the product with its user.

If a car "decides" to drive into the ditch, whatever the problem with the car that caused it to drive into the ditch is actually the result of the failure of someone else: either the driver (i.e. not the car), the manufacturer, the designer, the supplier, etc.
 
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