Why does the US Support Israel?

[icehorse]

There are big different between Islam teaching and some muslims.

There is rare force to convert.
Which don't represent most of the story.
Force example, Asia and north Africa.

Whatever you didn't mention, our current problem racist regime Israel, nor zionism!
Or it's ok because they killing/oppression "muslims "?

I've read the Quran - it tells Muslims that it's okay to use force to convert people. So any Muslim who uses force or violence has the agreement of the Quran. That's a huge problem. The Quran is a very violent book.

It seems to me that your opinion is "it's all because of the Jews". I think that is incorrect, there is blame to be shared on both sides of this war, and until we all recognize that, there will never be peace.

 

[icehorse]

Christianity cannot be forced on a person according to scripture.
You can find nothing between the front and back cover of the bible that states that or gives an example of that .

That might well be, but certainly over the centuries many, many, many Christians have used violence to "convert" non-Christians. Christianity has an extremely bloody history.

 

[icehorse]

Recent WW1 WW2 killed probably 80 millions done by non muslims, next WW3 which will finish this life sure would done by non muslims.

So, you have to extend/oriented your hate.
We are just angels to the what the West did and doing and will do.

I never said "hate". I said that I do not like Islam or Christianity. I believe they are both intolerant ideologies. I think it's a mistake to tolerate intolerance.

 

[BrokenBread]

That might well be, but certainly over the centuries many, many, many Christians have used violence to "convert" non-Christians. Christianity has an extremely bloody history.

A person cannot be "converted" to Christianity .
If you believe that you should have the information to describe how a person is forced to go to heaven ?
Go ahead ?

 

[icehorse]

A person cannot be "converted" to Christianity .
If you believe that you should have the information to describe how a person is forced to go to heaven ?
Go ahead ?

I'm an atheist So I don't believe in god or heaven.

But are you telling me that the history of Christian missionaries is not littered with violence?

 

[Godobeyer]

I never said "hate". I said that I do not like Islam or Christianity. I believe they are both intolerant ideologies. I think it's a mistake to tolerate intolerance.

Sorry for misunderstood, i thought you meant hate.

You don't like judaism and zionism too?

 

[Godobeyer]

I've read the Quran - it tells Muslims that it's okay to use force to convert people. So any Muslim who uses force or violence has the agreement of the Quran. That's a huge problem. The Quran is a very violent book.

There is no verse in Qur'an said to force Islam.
On contrary, it's said everyone free to disbelieve or believe.

It seems to me that your opinion is "it's all because of the Jews". I think that is incorrect, there is blame to be shared on both sides of this war, and until we all recognize that, there will never be peace.

Am your mirror on the other world , your opinion is all about Islamists.

It's unfair to put share blame both sides.

Because there is a criminal racist regime, and there are real owner of the land whon defend for their land from this racist regime.

Islam which are power, which more responsible for besieged Gaza and Occupation West Bank which end by genocide.

 

[BrokenBread]

I'm an atheist So I don't believe in god or heaven.

If you are to allege that the bible says you can convert someone by violence but you can't answer the first question of where does it say that , then how can you believe or not believe in something you know nothing about ?

 

[icehorse]

If you are to allege that the bible says you can convert someone by violence but you can't answer the first question of where does it say that , then how can you believe or not believe in something you know nothing about ?

Did you read my post??? I never said that, ffs.

 

[icehorse]

There is no verse in Qur'an said to force Islam.
On contrary, it's said everyone free to disbelieve or believe.

I've been debating the Quran with various Muslims for years, you're unlikely to slip a lie past me.

So yes indeed, SOMETIMES the Quran says things like "there is no compunction in religion". BUT, the Quran is a mediocre, inconsistent book, and SOMETIMES it absolutely gives Muslims permission to violently force Islam on non-Muslims.

Am your mirror on the other world , your opinion is all about Islamists.

It's unfair to put share blame both sides.

Because there is a criminal racist regime, and there are real owner of the land whon defend for their land from this racist regime.

Islam which are power, which more responsible for besieged Gaza and Occupation West Bank which end by genocide.

As I said a few posts back, it would appear that your opinion can be summarized to: "it's all the Jews' fault."

I think that's a dangerous and wildly false idea, and as long as people hold that idea there will never be peace. Because billions of people on the planet will simply NEVER submit to Islam. Never!

 

[Godobeyer]

I've been debating the Quran with various Muslims for years, you're unlikely to slip a lie past me.

Wow your debating Qur'an for years!!
You have experience in Qur'an?
Are you sure our Qur'an?

So yes indeed, SOMETIMES the Quran says things like "there is no compunction in religion". BUT, the Quran is a mediocre, inconsistent book, and SOMETIMES it absolutely gives Muslims permission to violently force Islam on non-Muslims.

Sometimes people lie, believe on their lies too.

Qur'an never give permission to violence against innocents.

As I said a few posts back, it would appear that your opinion can be summarized to: "it's all the Jews' fault."

You trying to insert "Jews fault" in my mouth.
I never generalized.
Always mentioned to zionists and Israel racist regime.
There are Jews against Israel regime, do you know that?

I think that's a dangerous and wildly false idea, and as long as people hold that idea there will never be peace. Because billions of people on the planet will simply NEVER submit to Islam. Never!

There are almost 1.6 muslims, Islam is top growing religion.


NEVER? Actually it is not you up to you or me,you just have a period of time,you will gone,just calm down and watch.

 

[icehorse]

Wow your debating Qur'an for years!!
You have experience in Qur'an?
Are you sure our Qur'an?

Yes, for probably 15 years now, over 10 years on this forum. And I have read one translation cover to cover and I have spot checked two other translations. What I found across these three translations is that they are very similar, so I think that the version I read cover to cover is a good, solid translation.

Sometimes people lie, believe on their lies too.

We're talking about the Quran.

Qur'an never give permission to violence against innocents.

Ha! Okay, I'll bite, how do you define "innocent"? I've heard some Muslims explain that if a Muslim offers Islam to a non-Muslim and the non-Muslim refuses to accept Islam, that that non-Muslim is somehow no longer innocent, yikes?

NEVER? Actually it is not you up to you or me,you just have a period of time,you will gone,just calm down and watch.

Am I correct in interpreting that you think one day everyone will be a Muslim?

 

[Godobeyer]

Yes, for probably 15 years now, over 10 years on this forum. And I have read one translation cover to cover and I have spot checked two other translations. What I found across these three translations is that they are very similar, so I think that the version I read cover to cover is a good, solid translation.

I guess it 15 years of believin and defending lies about Qu'ran.

We're talking about the Quran.

Your Qu'ran. Not Muslims Qu'ran.
Because Qu'ran don't allow kill innocents.

Ha! Okay, I'll bite, how do you define "innocent"? I've heard some Muslims explain that if a Muslim offers Islam to a non-Muslim and the non-Muslim refuses to accept Islam, that that non-Muslim is somehow no longer innocent, yikes?

I already told you. It's your Qu'ran.
Not muslims Qu'ran.
There is no verse on Qu'ran said threaten no muslims to become Muslims.

Am I correct in interpreting that you think one day everyone will be a Muslim?

Why not?
What you do in that case, suicide?

 

[icehorse]

@Godobeyer - do you know what "parsimonious" means? It's a rare word, most Americans don't know it.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm an atheist So I don't believe in god or heaven.

But are you telling me that the history of Christian missionaries is not littered with violence?

Violence toward others is not condoned by the New Testament, however.

 

[Godobeyer]

@Godobeyer - do you know what "parsimonious" means? It's a rare word, most Americans don't know it.

Very stingy?
What's your point?

 

[Revoltingest]

Violence toward others is not condoned by the New Testament, however.

Yeah.....right....

Violence in the New Testament - Bible Odyssey

The New Testament has its share of violence committed by both people and God.

www.bibleodyssey.org

And as we observe from the actions of so many Christians,
theft, violence, & murder are acceptable. And in the history
of Christianity, only recently did it move away from slavery.

 

[Kathryn]

Yeah.....right....

Violence in the New Testament - Bible Odyssey

The New Testament has its share of violence committed by both people and God.

www.bibleodyssey.org

And as we observe from the actions of so many Christians,
theft, violence, & murder are acceptable. And in the history
of Christianity, only recently did it move away from slavery.

Luke 12 does not say whether or not the person is a Christian.

And name calling? Really? Wow, harsh.

 

[Revoltingest]

Luke 12 does not say whether or not the person is a Christian.

And name calling? Really? Wow, harsh.

In the context of visiting death & destruction
upon people God hates, the name calling serves
to further demonize the victims.

 

[icehorse]

Very stingy?
What's your point?

Yes, it can mean stingy. But in science it means that the simplest explanation is usually the correct explanation.

So a neutral, unbiased, parsimonious reading of the Quran leads us to the conclusion that the Quran frequently instructs Muslims to be violent towards non-believers. And as we've seen in your posts, your hope is that all the world will become Muslims or commit suicide?? wow!

In order for a person to conclude that the Quran is not violent, they would have to do all sorts of mental gymnastics to interpret the words that are actually quite clear.

So for me to say the Quran is violent is parsimonious. For you to say it's not requires you to perform all sorts of dodgy interpretations.