Why don’t Baha’is in forums ever talk about what their religion is really all about?

[LuisDantas]

@LuisDantas Your comments and questions here have raised some questions for me about your views about spiritual teachers, masters or mentors. Is there an existing thread where I can ask you those questions, or if not can we start one?

We may just as well resume here.

Some free talk about the flow of religious wisdom

 

[Jim]

A bit more of familiarity shows that Bahais are very much Abrahamic in their doctrine, and brings questions about how much ability to understand non-Abrahamic perspectives it has or seeks.

((This is an example of what raises questions for me about your views, which I would like to discuss with you, at your leisure, if you’re willing. It looks to me like it might plant a false, damaging picture in people’s minds, of the world community of followers of Bahá’u’lláh. I’m not thinking that you intended it that way, just that it might have that effect. I’m also not objecting to you saying that, if that’s what you think. I just would like to know more about what you think. The thread about diversity in Baha’i thinking might be good for that. I’d like to post that same quote from you in that thread, and ask my questions there, if that’s okay with you.))

 

[Jim]

We may just as well resume here.

Some free talk about the flow of religious wisdom

Okay, good.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Sometimes, I think I like you of all the Bahais here, but not much (you are still a Bahai).

I like Adrian and Tony too.

 

[LuisDantas]

((This is an example of what raises questions for me about your views, which I would like to discuss with you, at your leisure, if you’re willing. It looks to me like it might plant a false, damaging picture in people’s minds, of the world community of followers of Bahá’u’lláh. I’m not thinking that you intended it that way, just that it might have that effect. I’m also not objecting to you saying that, if that’s what you think. I just would like to know more about what you think. The thread about diversity in Baha’i thinking might be good for that. I’d like to post that same quote from you in that thread, and ask my questions there, if that’s okay with you.))

To be fair, I am curious about why exactly you feel bothered by my saying that.

Let's go to the other thread

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I like Adrian and Tony too.

You are aways sure to add great colour to any conversation we may have. I see you paint the canvas in bright colours so the black and white of the Abrahamic mind is bathed instead in colour.

Then on the other hand you have some big pales of black and white always ready, just in case the Abrahamic mind gets a bit to colourful.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, I agree that I do that.

I like Adrian and Tony too.

I expect a like from Adrian too if he sees my post.
Edited: I think Adrian may also give me a like when he sees my post.
Not making it compulsory for him.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I went through the links as promised Adrian. Before I say any more have you been through them? My goal was to find the actual curriculum taught at the

As promised Adrian, I went to your links. My goal being to find the actual curriculum taght at Rowhani Baha'i School . I am not sure if you have ever tried to follow that path through the maze, but as an educated doctor I hope to (***)ume you are well experienced in following links to eventually get to as much of the truth as possible. I finally ended with having to download a curriculum. ..and I did. The trail did not end in any useful information other than everyone loving everyone else and being nice and gathering others into the light. A Nobel cause but not exactly a well rounded education in science and history or anything else I have the trail in link form and it ended very quickly with little information. I also followed the links provided by the Grizzly Bear. In both cases there is much talk in mostly spiral circles with lots of loving, flowery words and suggestions for becoming a loyal and fruitful follow of Baha'I principle and a willingness to share but very little in the way of traceable evidence of what Baha'I actually teach or do. Especially what they teach at outreach posts and in developing communities. I guess I have to say I'm happy for people who truly find joy in following the Baha'I way and the words of the prophet but there are a lot of spaces in the truth of what they do and a lot of chasing circles to distractions but a lack of information about what they actually teach or do to help those communities they pilgrimage to.. I'm not saying any of what I have said to be mean. I don't really care what Baha'I believe per say as I am an atheist to the Abrahamics.

I think if in Internet discussions more sunlight on the truth was allowed in, there probably would not be more adherents but the faith would be viewed for what it is in an honest manner. Now as it is and has been , speakers just cannot be viewed as being honest by anyone other than Baha'i. And frankly that involves a blind eye by members if they cannot be open and honest about what they do and what their real goals are. I am sorry to say but reading the messages reminds me a lot of a Hulu series entitled The Handmaid's Tale (TV series) - Wikipedia.

I really cannot see the faith ending any different than that. We are all different. We need to accept that difference in others and be truthful in our endeavors to see peace, compassion, and equality for all humans and the planet. It starts foremost with honestly

I am sorry for the loss at Christ's Church. The landscape is amazing and hopefully the people can find peace again with help from sincere people such as yourself.

Best wishes for peace there.


Edited to end on a positive note here in the land of the free as far as human dignity is conserned:

We became the 7th state in this country to replace Columbus Day with Indigenous People's Day. It took 6 years but we got 'er done. It only takes respect and a willingness to face the reality head on. I did a dance in the forest to celebrate.

Sorry its taken me a while to respond.

I agree there is little if any detail about the curriculum for the Rowhani School. I don't know if you have ever been to Vanuatu but it is not a well developed nation and many children do not attend school, especially in the rural regions. I doubt if there would be much publicity for the school through the internet and it would be mostly through word of mouth.

Any curriculum for a Baha'i school needs to emphasise literacy and the arts and sciences. The Baha'i writings have a strong emphasis on developing knowledge, especially in areas that are of practical benefit.

 

[CG Didymus]

Gee wiz. We are at least engaging with you. The only way for those of us who are not Bahai to know anything about it is what the followers tell us and what information is put out by the official Bahai sites. How about at this point since no one else is going to tell us what it is you are looking for, you tell everyone the answers to your OP. I imagine this thread will soon dissappear into the vaults like most threads. I don't think anyone else can answer your questions except you.

Has this thread disappeared without an answer?

 

[Jim]

Has this thread disappeared without an answer?

No. I found some possible answers, and I posted them.

 

[Jim]

Has this thread disappeared without an answer?

The question in this thread was not, what is the Baha’i Faith really all about. That’s a different thread. The question here was, why don’t Baha’is who talk about their religions in Internet discussions, ever talk about that?

I never got an answer to that from any Baha’i, but one possible reason I’ve thought of is that they don’t like the direction that the Baha’i community is going, and they’re embarrassed by it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The question in this thread was not, what is the Baha’i Faith really all about. That’s a different thread. The question here was, why don’t Baha’is who talk about their religions in Internet discussions, ever talk about that?

I never got an answer to that from any Baha’i, but one possible reason I’ve thought of is that they don’t like the direction that the Baha’i community is going, and they’re embarrassed by it.

Another thought would be that we do not know what you are thinking with the question. Well at least I am very unsure.

I see all post as to their level of knowledge about the Faith and what they think it is indicative of that knowledge. All post to a question as to what they have seen in it. So I see they do each offer, in that capacity, as to what the " Baha’i Faith really all about."

OP answered?

Or... are you looking for critique on aspects where the Faith could have done better?

Or....are you looking to discuss ideas about what you think the Faith is all about, indicative to your understanding?

Or as per my above comments, are you looking to expand upon each persons understanding of what the Faith is about?

Lastly are you looking to discuss writings that may offer what people have seen the Faith is all about?

To the first point if I was to say at a time not long ago and even now, Baha'i's had the God blessed opportunity to disperse around this world free of any material consideration, carried by faith to a new life enmass and in that way carry in the veins of humanity the elixer to a wider audience, but that was greatly neglected. That I see this as one aspect that this Faith is still all about, that the lumps need to be removed from the porridge. Is that the type of reflection we're looking at giving? These reflections are strong in the writings of the Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[Jim]

OP answered?

No, but thanks for trying.

I'll try to explain the puzzle that I was trying to solve. For twenty years or more, what the House of Justice has been promoting most of all in its messages has been a kind of community development revolving around these activities:
- Devotional meetings.
- Study circles.
- Children's classes.
- Junior youth programs.
- Home visits.
- Raising our everyday conversations to higher levels.

All of that is in collaboration with neighbors, working side by side with them to help make the community life in a neighborhood or village healthier, happier and more loving for everyone in the community. That has been the highest priority of the House of Justice for Baha'i communities, and of a growing number of Baha'i communities everywhere in the world, for twenty years of more. I don't see how it would be possible for anyone who reads the messages from the House of Justice, believing in its infallibility, not to be aware of that, not to know those activities by heart, after seeing them listed repeatedly in message after message from the House of Justice, as "core activities" and part of our "framework for action." Even when I said "core activities," and "framework for action," explicitly in the other thread, there was no response from any Baha'i. Even in Baha'i forums where Baha'is are discussing everything else that Baha'is do, they never mention those core activities, and they ignore everything I say about them, no matter how much they respond to my other posts.

That's the mystery I was trying to solve, and the best explanation that I can think of, from my experience and observation of Baha'is on the Internet, is that there's something about the framework for action that they want to hide from the world, or maybe even from themselves. It might be the Ruhi courses, because I know that there has been a lot of opposition to those from multitudes of Baha'is.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, but thanks for trying.

I'll try to explain the puzzle that I was trying to solve. For twenty years or more, what the House of Justice has been promoting most of all in its messages has been a kind of community development revolving around these activities:

- Devotional meetings.
- Study circles.
- Children's classes.
- Junior youth programs.
- Home visits.
- Raising our everyday conversations to higher levels.

All of that is in collaboration with neighbors, working side by side with them to help make the community life in a neighborhood or village healthier, happier and more loving for everyone in the community. That has been the highest priority of the House of Justice for Baha'i communities, and of a growing number of Baha'i communities everywhere in the world, for twenty years of more. I don't see how it would be possible for anyone who reads the messages from the House of Justice, believing in its infallibility, not to be aware of that, not to know those activities by heart, after seeing them listed repeatedly in message after message from the House of Justice, as "core activities" and part of our "framework for action." Even when I said "core activities," and "framework for action," explicitly in the other thread, there was no response from any Baha'i. Even in Baha'i forums where Baha'is are discussing everything else that Baha'is do, they never mention those core activities, and they ignore everything I say about them, no matter how much they respond to my other posts.

That's the mystery I was trying to solve, and the best explanation that I can think of, from my experience and observation of Baha'is on the Internet, is that there's something about the framework for action that they want to hide from the world, or maybe even from themselves. It might be the Ruhi courses, because I know that there has been a lot of opposition to those from multitudes of Baha'is.

I think on RF that, that puzzle is very easy answered as rule 8. Other forums are also covered by rules such as these.

In a community participants respond to invitations and are there because they chose to be. Thus on RF a DIR post would be the applicable place.

As this is an open forum one can really only participate in one of those initiatives listed which is 'Raising our everyday conversations to higher levels'. In doing this, it is important to note it is self motivated as our learning curve and not applicable to those others that participate on RF, unless of course they respond to an invitation or an reply or comment on an OP.

I see many Invitations you have raised have had a few to many participate and in most cases a mature and interesting discussion has resulted.

From what I have found with the few Baha'i Forums that are available, they do not have many members to have any substantial conversation on these issues and my guess is because most are most likely undertaking the other activities you listed, combined with busy lives.

Maybe those thoughts raise other issues?

P/S...I am punch drunk on rule 8
Regards Tony

 

[Jim]

I think on RF that, that puzzle is very easy answered as rule 8.

From what I have found with the few Baha'i Forums that are available, they do not have many members to have any substantial conversation on these issues and my guess is because most are most likely undertaking the other activities you listed, combined with busy lives.

To be honest and fair I think I should say that I don’t believe any of that.

 

[Jim]

I’m embarrassed now. I thought of another possible reason why no Baha’is here could list the core activities that the House of Justice has been promoting. Because they aren’t computer programmers. The reason it’s so clear and obvious to me is because of my computer programming ways of thinking.

 

[wandering peacefully]

Has this thread disappeared without an answer?

Don't they all?

 

[Jim]

Has this thread disappeared without an answer?

Don't they all?

This thread did not disappear without an answer. It was answered, more than once. I just don't know if any of the answers are true or not.

The best explanation I can think of now is that the reason Baha'is on the Internet never talk about the community activities that the House of Justice has been promoting for 20 years or more, and none of them could list them when I asked for them in the other thread, is because they aren't as clear and obvious in the minds of other Baha'is as they are in mine. I have a very analytical mind, and I've been studying and analyzing what the House of Justice has been promoting, for fifty years. When I was in high school, I used to have a lot of fun diagramming sentences. I've had a very clear picture in my mind, for decades, of the structure of the framework for action and the core activities that the House of Justice has been promoting for community building, and how they all work together. I just thought that it would be obvious to any Baha'i who has read any message from the House of Justice in the last few years, but now I think I was wrong. I just think now that most Baha'is don't analyze things the way I do.

I still haven't seen a plausible explanation of why Baha'is in Baha'i forums who often respond to my posts, ignore me when I talk about those activities. Maybe for the same reason. Maybe I haven't made it clear enough that those activities are the ones that the House of Justice has been promoting for Baha'i communities for 20 years or more. It just seemed so obvious to me that it never occurred to me that I needed to explain it.

 

[KelseyR]

I’m at the end of my patience about this. Can any Baha’i explain to me why no Baha’is in any Internet forums, including Baha’i Forums, ever have any interest in any discussion about what their communities are doing most of all with other people, and what their supreme world council has been promoting most of all for more than 15 years?

Might I suggest browsing a site where Baha'i belief is succinctly explained?