Why don’t Baha’is in forums ever talk about what their religion is really all about?

[Jim]

I just realized that I’ve been breaking one of the rules of role-playing games by not tagging my posts as “OOC.”

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why? Is their community activity a secret? Or do you simply prefer your good works to be done under the Bible principle of not letting the left hand know what the right hand doeth? (Matthew 6:3).

In the end, I did try many answers to this thread and then just keep deleting them. I just do not see it is a debate.

I also see if one does a google search, then activity after activity sponsored by Baha'i's, can be found all over the world wide web.

Regards Tony

 

[LuisDantas]

The opposite. The Universal House of Justice has its fingers on the pulse of humanity. They offer very timely advice.

Each community consults on these messages and decides how they, given their capacities, can best implememt the advice.

Regards Tony

For all I know, Tony, you may be entirely correct while my speculations are clueless and entirely wrong.

But I will nonetheless point out that what you say above is not at all incompatible with what I said.

The UHJ may be very active, informed and may act with any conceivable level of wisdom. I did not imply otherwise. But it is still a group of nine people giving advice for Bahais as a whole, split among several continents and living under a variety of social and cultural environments. There is only so much that they can understand or do before the local communities have to make their own judgements and decisions.

I have little notion of how faithfully and how effectively local assemblies understand and implement their own decisions or the directives from the UHJ, but there are plenty enough Bahais worldwide for me to feel safe in assuming that this is not a trivial matter to even describe. There is more than likely a significant variety of situations. And there must be a variety of degrees of engagement and awareness as well. Many Bahais have spouses and young children, and with all due respect, I just don't believe that all those people are uniformly interested in keeping up to date with the central directives and implementing them.

That is before considering how skilled they are in understanding and implementing those directives, even. People are not always capable and motivated, and I don't feel that I am presuming too much nor being disrespectful in pointing out that Bahais as a global community are not likely to be significant exception there.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I get the sense that Bahais are fairly family-oriented. Perhaps participation in the Assemblies is limited to adults with a certain degree of commitment. It may require some form of periodic confirmation or approval from more experient members for all I know. But even if the Assemblies are actually run as a business that favors efficiency over inclusiveness, their members will still have their families to divide their attention. I simply do not believe that all of those family members uniformly both consider themselves Bahais and insist on keeping up to date and happen to be well motivated regardless of any personal circunstances and inclinations. It does not sound humanly possible.

 

[LuisDantas]

My wife and I are remote Baha'i's and have been most of our Baha'i life. We have no Baha'i community.

I do not think it is appropriate for me to talk much about other communities on a public forum as I do not know what they would share. The closest to us, Atherton Tablelands, is 600km away and any public sponsered event is locally advertised and they have always been well attended.

That communities website and events page is there for all to see, thus that would be shareable.

Events

Regards Tony

So you do not participate of any Assemblies as such? I wonder how you keep aware of the UHJ communications.

Or maybe you do not and are going on faith that their general direction remains fairly compatible with your own?

 

[Jim]

(bolded text added)

... Bahais are >sometimes< very much Abrahamic in their doctrine>s< ...

- FTFY

 

[LuisDantas]

(bolded text added)

- FTFY

Really?

I wish I could agree.

 

[Jim]

I also see if one does a google search, then activity after activity sponsored by Baha'i's, can be found all over the world wide web.

- Which is irrelevant to my questions, what specific activities has the House of Justice been promoting most of all in its messages to Baha’is for 20 years or more, and why do Baha’is who think it’s wrong to ever disagree with anything it says, never mention those activities?

- “Curiouser and curiouser.” I’m dying of curiosity. Won’t anyone have pity on me, and help satisfy my curiosity? I’m genuinely baffled and bewildered by this. Seriously.

 

[Jim]

Really?

I wish I could agree.

I’m using “sometimes” in the formal logic sense that could possibly include “almost always.” I’m not even sure about that. Don’t forget about the masses of Baha’is in India, and the fact that there is no belief requirement for membership.

 

[Jim]

I wonder how you keep aware of the UHJ communications.

They are always available online, sometimes even before they are made available by Baha’i institutions.

 

[Aupmanyav]

A bit more of familiarity shows that Bahais are very much Abrahamic in their doctrine, and brings questions about how much ability to understand non-Abrahamic perspectives it has or seeks.

Who the hell is interested in understanding non-Abrahamic perspectives? What they need to believe and understand is 'Kitab-e-Aqdas'. Is it not the latest missive from Allah through his manifestation/mirror image, Bahaullah, the sender of prophets? As an Abrahamic religion that is the beginning and end of their belief. Otherwise, the House of Universal Justice will do their justice and excommunicate them as heretics as they have done earlier.
As I read Christians writing, questioning Jesus is adultery.

With possibly one exception, the blatant and shameless display of willfull ignorance, on all sides of debating about the Baha’i Faith, continues, further confirming my suspicion that no one in the debating cares at all about the truth or reality of anything they’re saying, in the world of experience outside of their online forum MMORPGs.

If you are so interested in truth, why have you not looked for evidence of the Bahai Allah and that of his manifestation, Bahaullah? What evidence have you got for them?

Don’t forget about the masses of Baha’is in India, and the fact that there is no belief requirement for membership.

Masses? How many? 100 million? If they are Bahais, then they have to accept Bahaullah as a manifestation of God. A membership? you perhaps charge people visiting the Lotus temple here a few rupees and give them a piece of paper and claim that they are Bahais? We have a hundred orders like Bahais and don't care much about them.

 

[LuisDantas]

I’m using “sometimes” in the formal logic sense that could possibly include “almost always.” I’m not even sure about that. Don’t forget about the masses of Baha’is in India, and the fact that there is no belief requirement for membership.

From my direct experience, Bahais are taught a lot of Abrahamic-influenced doctrine, to the point that it is difficult to imagine that a non-Abrahamic Bahai won't be in some sense a "rogue". I had to ask myself if I was willing to be such a rogue at one point in time.

Sure, Indian Bahais, at the very least, will have awareness of non-Abrahamic beliefs.

 

[paarsurrey]

I would say that they are denouncing all religions as false. Because the teachings of all of them have been replaced (modified - progressive revelation) by the Bahai teachings. They don't accept Jesus as the son of God, they do not accept that Mohammad has the last message from Allah, they do not accept that there could be more Gods and Goddesses than one like the Hindus, they don't accept that existence or non-existence of God is immaterial in life as Buddhists do or Jains who deny the existence of God, they do not accept that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who declared his mission later than Bahaullah is the mahdi sent by Allah. The veneer of accepting all religions is as thin as a one cell membrane. Actually they are at odds with all other religions of the world. Why, then, the charade?
Ah, that is a wonderful benefaction that you have accorded to the indigenous people after all that happened in history.
I accept it is good, but what I wonder is what remains of the indigenous people at all!Their greatest project and goal is to make more temples around the world. Not much unlike Hare-Krishnas or Swaminarayans.

"Actually they (Bahaullah's followers) are at odds with all other religions of the world"

Excepting some points one's post is a wonderful summation of the Bahaullah's followers, his concepts and what they are busy doing.

Regards

 

[Jim]

From my direct experience, Bahais are taught a lot of Abrahamic-influenced doctrine, to the point that it is difficult to imagine that a non-Abrahamic Bahai won't be in some sense a "rogue.”

((How much of that direct experience has been in India and Vietnam?))

 

[LuisDantas]

((How much of that direct experience has been in India and Vietnam?))

None. But surely there is only so much room to avoid the teachings of Bahaullah, Abdul Baha and Shoggi Effendi even there?

 

[Jim]

Who the hell is interested in understanding non-Abrahamic perspectives? What they need to believe and understand is 'Kitab-e-Aqdas'. Is it not the latest missive from Allah through his manifestation/mirror image, Bahaullah, the sender of prophets? As an Abrahamic religion that is the beginning and end of their belief. Otherwise, the House of Universal Justice will do their justice and excommunicate them as heretics as they have done earlier.
As I read Christians writing, questioning Jesus is adultery.If you are so interested in truth, why have you not looked for evidence of the Bahai Allah and that of his manifestation, Bahaullah? What evidence have you got for them?Masses? How many? 100 million? If they are Bahais, then they have to accept Bahaullah as a manifestation of God. A membership? you perhaps charge people visiting the Lotus temple here a few rupees and give them a piece of paper and claim that they are Bahais? We have a hundred orders like Bahais and don't care much about them.

((Maybe you need to get out more.))

 

[Jim]

None. But surely there is only so much room to avoid the teachings of Bahaullah, Abdul Baha and Shoggi Effendi even there?

Is that a serious question? I’m asking seriously, because I wouldn’t have thought you would ask me a question loaded like that one is.

 

[Aupmanyav]

This kind of freedom and discussion is available only in Hinduism and Buddhism.

 

[LuisDantas]

Is that a serious question? I’m asking seriously, because I wouldn’t have thought you would ask me a question loaded like that one is.

No, I mean it.

Their teachings are quite Abrahamic indeed, albeit decisively (and, fittingly enough, progressively) in the enlightened side.

I dearly wish that the Bahai Faith would learn to transcend Abrahamism, but I do not see much in the way of self-acceptance of that need.

 

[LuisDantas]

This kind of freedom and discussion is available only in Hinduism and Buddhism.

Probably not. I would assume that Wicca, at least, also allows it - on its own terms, of course.

 

[Jim]

From my direct experience, Bahais are taught a lot of Abrahamic-influenced doctrine, to the point that it is difficult to imagine that a non-Abrahamic Bahai won't be in some sense a "rogue.”

((How much of that direct experience has been in India and Vietnam?))

None. But surely there is only so much room to avoid the teachings of Bahaullah, Abdul Baha and Shoggi Effendi even there?

Is that a serious question? I’m asking seriously, because I wouldn’t have thought you would ask me a question loaded like that one is.

No, I mean it.

Okay, I’ll treat it as a serious question. I don’t see any reason to think that it would be any harder for Buddhists or Hindus to learn to love, trust and follow Baha’u’llah, than for Christians or Muslims. In Baha’i communities where most members are from a Muslim or Christian background. members from a Hindu or Buddhist background might keep their thinking to themselves more than most of the others, but I don’t see any reason to think that it would be that way in communities where most of the members are from Buddhist or Hindu backgrounds.