Why don't they just leave it to Allah?

[ChristineM]

So that would be a sort of Human sacrifice. Aren't they forbidden in Islam? Or infidels aren't considered Human?

Is murder in the name of god human sacrifice? Over the millennia of religion millions of people have been killed in whatever gods name

 

[SalixIncendium]

Allah's omnipotent. Why would he ever need them?

Who said anything about needing them?

Why would he use people for His dirty work? Terrorists most often end up dead or in jail. Why would Allah want his faithful to have such a miserable end?

He could just wait until offending infidels die and send them to Hell, as the surahs describe.

Oh and there's another detail... If Allah is perfect, I don't see why would He send terrorists to kill those who actually didn't draw any cartoon. For what I've seen, terrorists tend to do random killing.

These are questions best left to these zealots or to Allah himself. I don't pretend to know Allah or any of these zealots.

Have you tried praying to Allah for these answers?

 

[thomas t]

Same reason why Christians can't leave issues like equal marriage or abortion rights up to their God, I guess.

this is the wrong comparison.
Don't get me wrong, I think same-sex marriage should be legal and I am pro-choice. But I am also pro-life when it comes to abortion.
Of course, the state has the right to do everything they can to protect the rights of the unborn - I mean the state can and should establish mandatory waiting periods and mandatory consulting, in my opinion.
Abortion, as I see it, should be decriminalised. But still, the state can and should do something to get the abortion numbers down.
And Christians are allowed to point that out!

Thomas

 

[agorman]

Who said anything about needing them?

Well seems terrorists assume they've got to do Allah's work for some reason.

Have you tried praying to Allah for these answers?

In my opinion Allah is the same as EL and Saturn, so yes maybe I could ask him about it. Although the last time on one hand Saturn gave me healing and protection and on the other, I felt his darkness was going to stop my heart at any moment (my blood pressure went down). So to tell you the truth I'm weary of calling Saturn or putting him on my altar again.

The answer (thoughts) I get so far from the Moon goddess about this topic is "ignorance, ignorance; they're ignorant [the terrorists]".

 

[Tambourine]

this is the wrong comparison.

No, I think it's pretty apt.

 

[thomas t]

No, I think it's pretty apt.

ah, you think that terrorist attack and favoring waiting periods to protect the unborn is the same?

Actually, nobody dies when there is counselling and waiting periods for women who want to have an abortion.
In contrast, many people die in terrorism.
Terrorism does not aim for the protection of (other) life. Waiting periods and counselling do.

So there is no reason to compare the protection of unborn life - as seen in waiting periods and counselling - to terrorism, even if you think these two are very much the same.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Everytime I read on the news that there was a terrorist attack in response to some offense of the "infidels" (e.g. Mohammed cartoons), I make myself the same question:

If fundamentalists supposedly have so much faith in Him, then why don't they let Allah punish the offenders Himself instead of them doing the dirty work?

According to their beliefs, isn't Allah/God all-powerful? Why would he need any Human killers to avenge offenses against his prophet? Heck, he could just send a few thousand angels if He doesn't want to do the job Himself!

Mind you, my question is serious. I just want to understand what's in the mind of someone who's suddenly willing to sacrifice his life or freedom to supposedly gain more respect toward his beliefs (although they end up causing the opposite effect).

It is my understanding that Muhammad in his teachings commands them to do it.

 

[agorman]

It is my understanding that Muhammad in his teachings commands them to do it.

No offense, but do you have some source for that affirmation?

 

[Zaha Torte]

No offense, but do you have some source for that affirmation?

"You are the best community ever raised for humanity—you encourage good, forbid evil, and believe in Allah. Had the People of the Book believed, it would have been better for them. Some of them are faithful, but most are rebellious." (Qu'ran 3:110)
Muhammad taught Muslims that they were the "best" and that Jews and Christians were rebellious for not believing in Allah (or rather Muhammad).

"Indeed, those who disbelieve from the People of the Book and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, to stay there forever. They are the worst of ˹all˺ beings." (Qu'ran 98:6)
Muhammad taught Muslims that anyone who disagreed with Islam (Muhammad) were the "worst of all beings" and were going to Hell forever.

"O believers! Take neither Jews nor Christians as guardians—they are guardians of each other.1 Whoever does so will be counted as one of them. Surely Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people." (Qu'ran 5:51)
Muhammad taught Muslims not to befriend (become guardians of) Jews and Christians and that any who did so would be "counted as one of them" - meaning they would become rebellious "worst of all beings" who would go to Hell forever.

"Muḥammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those with him are firm with the disbelievers and compassionate with one another." (Qu'ran 48:29)
Muhammad taught Muslims that he was the mouthpiece for God and that they should be "firm" (severe) toward those who disagreed with him and love only one another.

"O Prophet! Struggle against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be firm with them. Hell will be their home. What an evil destination!" (Qu'ran 9:73)
Muhammad taught Muslims that he would "struggle" (strive against) those who disagree with him and be "firm" (unyielding) toward them.

"O believers! Fight the disbelievers around you and let them find firmness in you. And know that Allah is with those mindful ˹of Him˺." (Qu'ran 9"123)
Muhammad taught Muslims to "fight" everyone who disagreed with him and have no compassion on them (be firm with them).

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture, until they pay the tax, willingly submitting, fully humbled." (Qu'ran 9:29)
Muhammad taught Muslims to fight and subjugate those who disagree with him and force them to pay fines (a tax known as jizyah) for not being Muslim.

You can find all these at The Noble Quran

From the Sahih Bukhari 6924 - narrated by Abu Huraira - "When the Prophet (ﷺ) died and Abu Bakr became his successor and some of the Arabs reverted to disbelief, `Umar said, "O Abu Bakr! How can you fight these people although Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, 'and whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', Allah will save his property and his life from me"
Muhammad taught Muslims that he was to "fight" everyone until they agreed with him and by agreeing with him he would spare their property and lives.
Hadith - Book of Apostates - Sahih al-Bukhari - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Sunan Ibn Majah 2763 reads,
"It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Messenger of Allah ﷺ said:
“Whoever meets Allah with no mark on him (as a result of fighting) in His cause, he will meet Him with a deficiency.”
Muhammad taught Muslims that they would be considered deficient by God if they did not receive a physical mark/scar/wound from fighting those who disagree with him (Muhammad).
Sunan Ibn Majah Book of Jihad Hadith 2763 — Muflihun

Sahih al-Bukhari 2797 which is titled "Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)" reads,
"By Him in Whose Hands my life is! I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred."
Muhammad claimed that he wished he could die in a jihaad over and over and over again.
Hadith - Book of Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad) - Sahih al-Bukhari - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

I believe that it is clear that Muhammad hated anyone who disagreed with him and he wanted them dead or at least subjugated.

He taught Muslims to hate those who disagree with him and that they should kill or subjugate them.

 

[JustGeorge]

I believe that it is clear that Muhammad hated anyone who disagreed with him and he wanted them dead or at least subjugated.

Its not clear to me in any verses that anyone is being instructed to kill anyone else.

It seems clear that Allah doesn't care for non-Muslims, though I'm not sure I see the instruction to actually take anybody out.

What are the context of the verses on 'fighting'? I am far from being an Islamic scholar, but wasn't there a lot of tribalism and local bickering going on at the time?

 

[Muffled]

Everytime I read on the news that there was a terrorist attack in response to some offense of the "infidels" (e.g. Mohammed cartoons), I make myself the same question:

If fundamentalists supposedly have so much faith in Him, then why don't they let Allah punish the offenders Himself instead of them doing the dirty work?

According to their beliefs, isn't Allah/God all-powerful? Why would he need any Human killers to avenge offenses against his prophet? Heck, he could just send a few thousand angels if He doesn't want to do the job Himself!

Mind you, my question is serious. I just want to understand what's in the mind of someone who's suddenly willing to sacrifice his life or freedom to supposedly gain more respect toward his beliefs (although they end up causing the opposite effect).

I believe I would also ask by what authority they are doing it. At least some criminals have the audacity to say: "God made me do it."

 

[Muffled]

I'm not certain, but I suspect they get lost somewhere along the line of where politics and religion separate. Sadly, they can no longer tell the difference between their religious teaching and what their political or personal agenda pushes.

I believe they do not understand their own religion.

 

[Muffled]

The same question can be asked of fanatical Christians who want government to enforce their beliefs (and that's true of other religions as well to some degree).

I believe government serves the people and Christians are people.

 

[Muffled]

Same reason why Christians can't leave issues like equal marriage or abortion rights up to their God, I guess.

I believe that is because God's will becomes my will.

 

[Nakosis]

Everytime I read on the news that there was a terrorist attack in response to some offense of the "infidels" (e.g. Mohammed cartoons), I make myself the same question:

If fundamentalists supposedly have so much faith in Him, then why don't they let Allah punish the offenders Himself instead of them doing the dirty work?

According to their beliefs, isn't Allah/God all-powerful? Why would he need any Human killers to avenge offenses against his prophet? Heck, he could just send a few thousand angels if He doesn't want to do the job Himself!

Mind you, my question is serious. I just want to understand what's in the mind of someone who's suddenly willing to sacrifice his life or freedom to supposedly gain more respect toward his beliefs (although they end up causing the opposite effect).

I suspect many feel themselves to be instruments of God's or Allah's will.

That God acts through the faithful.

 

[sun rise]

I believe government serves the people and Christians are people.

The point was different: those who want government to favor their beliefs and want government to impose them on others have the same psychological makeup and one that is opposed to our ideals.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Because religious terrorists tend to believe they are killing for their god

Of all the recent terrorists murders in france, each time the terrorists called to their god.

As if their god isn't capable of killing for himself. I think the attitude of killing for your god reflects a sublimated sense that their god seems impotent and that someone needs to do it for him.

 

[ChristineM]

As if their god isn't capable of killing for himself. I think the attitude of killing for your god reflects a sublimated sense that their god seems impotent and that someone needs to do it for him.

Most religions seem to have been guilty at some time in the past.

 

[agorman]

As if their god isn't capable of killing for himself. I think the attitude of killing for your god reflects a sublimated sense that their god seems impotent and that someone needs to do it for him.

Or maybe the attitude of seeing God as a cosmic king that shouldn't drench his "hands" with blood; He shouldn't lower Himself do the dirty work, so the believer does it for Him.

I believe I would also ask by what authority they are doing it. At least some criminals have the audacity to say: "God made me do it."

But what would be the difference with "The Devil made me do it"?

I believe that it is clear that Muhammad hated anyone who disagreed with him and he wanted them dead or at least subjugated.

I think those suras (and many "stone him for doing X" verses in the Old Testament too) prove that people shouldn't believe everything they read is 100% true and trustable. Or at least if it's all true, maybe it's encoded somehow.

Hey, now I'm considering to write a "sacred" book putting myself as a prophet. And I'd write the prophet said all women should never say no to him. Otherwise God will make them suffer the torment of eternal reggaeton. After a little mass killing here and there and bribing some politicians, people will accept my new religion right away.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Its not clear to me in any verses that anyone is being instructed to kill anyone else.

It seems clear that Allah doesn't care for non-Muslims, though I'm not sure I see the instruction to actually take anybody out.

What are the context of the verses on 'fighting'? I am far from being an Islamic scholar, but wasn't there a lot of tribalism and local bickering going on at the time?

Physical fighting is violence that often leads to death.

And I quoted from the Sahih Bukhari 6924 when Muhammad said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, 'and whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', Allah will save his property and his life from me"

As long as they worship God as Muhammad commanded they could keep their property and their lives.

Meaning - if someone did not agree with Muhammad - he would either kill them or take their stuff or both.