Why don't you support Ron Paul?

[Trassin]

Ah, okay, I understand your original post now, Engyo, thanks.

 

[Comprehend]

No, he doesn't. He believes that the country needs the ability to gather intelligence. He doesn't believe our intelligence community should be interfering in the foreign affairs of other countries. He also believes that Homeland Security if a bureaucratic monster.
Speech by Ron Paul on Homeland Security

"Our FBI should be gathering information here at home, and the thousands of agents overseas should return. We don't need these agents competing overseas and confusing the intelligence apparatus of the CIA or the military." - Ron Paul. The actual speech can be found here

No, actually he does. He first wanted to get rid of the FBI and CIA and said so when he ran for president in 1988.

More recently he has said he wants to get rid of the entire DHS which would include everything.

see here for an example:
Ron Paul on Homeland Security

That makes no sense. You may have meant that the first gulf war was a cause. If that was what you were trying to say then it is still only partially right.

Ron Paul's argument on why we were attacked is backed up by the 9/11 Commission report, the former head of the CIA's Bin Laden unit, and numerous other experts on the middle east. His argument is that we were attacked because of our Government's policies towards the middle east over the last 50 years.
Here is a speech he gave before congress in November of 2001

my mistake, he was arguing that our 1991 attack against Iraq was the cause of 9/11 which is equally insane but at least chronologically possible.

YouTube - Republican Debate - Ron Paul vs. Rudy Giuliani

FOXNews.com - Rudy Giuliani Squares Off With Rep. Ron Paul Over 9/11 at GOP Debate - John Gibson | Judge Napolitano | John Gibson | Big Story Weekend

Do you think that Iraq was behind 9/11? Do you think 9/11 happened because we were in Iraq? I think 98% of the country would agree that is insane.

Please do, if they are true stances of his that you disagree with I won't hold that against you. But because Ron Paul scares the crap out of Mass Media, Big Business, and Lobbyists there is a lot of false information out there and I would be more than happy to dispel some of it.

I don't think Ron Paul scares anyone. please, he has a microscopic following of college kids and that is it. College kids usually don't even vote (but they sure know how to text a vote eh?).

Anyway, nobody with so little of the vote is going to scare anyone. He is like Dennis Kucinich but a little taller.

 

[eudaimonia]

I'm honestly curious why people may be voting for anyone other than Ron Paul. Please share your feelings with me.

The only reason I might is to vote for the Libertarian Party candidate.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[MaddLlama]

The only reason I might is to vote for the Libertarian Party candidate.


eudaimonia,

Mark

I thought Ron Paul was running under the Republican ticket, and not a Libertarian one? He's listed most places as a Republican.

 

[MaddLlama]

Do you think that Iraq was behind 9/11? Do you think 9/11 happened because we were in Iraq? I think 98% of the country would agree that is insane.

This statement doesn't take into account the probablility that at least 50% of the country are either sheep, uninformed, or unintelligent.

I don't think Ron Paul scares anyone. please, try not to be delusional, he has a microscopic following of college kids and that is it. College kids usually don't even vote (but they sure know how to text a vote eh?).

Anyway, nobody with so little of the vote is going to scare anyone. He is like Dennis Kucinich but a little taller.

There's a reason they call him the "internet candidate."

 

[Comprehend]

This statement doesn't take into account the probablility that at least 50% of the country are either sheep, uninformed, or unintelligent.

I would agree with you but increase the percentage.

There's a reason they call him the "internet candidate."

There is hardly anyone in the country that takes this guy seriously, I guess relying on the 16 year old text vote isn't the best strategy.

 

[doppelganger]

Also, as "fringe" candidates go, I greatly prefer Dennis Kucinich to Paul. The former is even stronger on Iraq than Paul, IMO. I particularly like Kucinich's positions on fair trade, universal healthcare and separation of church and state.

 

[jonny]

He doesn't want to disband the CIA or FBI, this is one of the many miss quotes by the mass media. He does believe that the FBI should concentrate on domestic affairs and that the CIA should be collecting intelligence overseas, not involving itself in covert actions against other governments. He does want to get rid of homeland security but again I believe he would do it as a measured draw down, not by just suddenly getting rid of it. In this article Ron Paul talks a little bit about what the FBI and CIA should do. Link

Dude - I didn't hear this through the mass media. I heard this straight out of his mouth during the debates. It was the most idiotic thing I'd ever heard a politician say during a debate. He said he wasts to do away with the Department of Homeland Security, Department of Education, CIA, FBI, and a bunch more of the federal departments. If he didn't mean it, he shouldn't have said it.

Sorry, I'm not drinking the Ron Paul koolaid.

 

[Trassin]

Okay, I'm going to try and catch up on everything I missed while I was out helping get Dr. Paul elected today.

He first wanted to get rid of the FBI and CIA and said so when he ran for president in 1988.

reference source?

More recently he has said he wants to get rid of the entire DHS which would include everything.

Why would that mean everything? DHS means DHS, the FBI and CIA are still their own organizations, they just have a bureaucratic monster standing between them and the President now.

Do you think that Iraq was behind 9/11?

No

Do you think 9/11 happened because we were in Iraq?

Well our military wasn't in Iraq when 9/11 occurred. Our government was however bombing it and starving its citizens with sanctions. Our military was in Saudi Arabia, which Muslims see as a violation of their holy land, in particular a Muslim named Osama Bin Ladin. I believe those actions along with numerous others over the last 50 years contributed to the hatred that inspired 9/11. Which is the case Ron Paul makes every single time he is asked about it.

This idea that 9/11 happened because "they hate our freedom" is complete crap.
From the 9/11 Commission Report:

Many Americans have wondered, "Why do 'they' hate us?" Some also ask "What can we do to stop thse attacks?" ...To the first, they (al Qaeda and Bin Ladin) say that America had attacked Islam; America is responsible for all conflicts involving Muslims...America is also held responsible for the governments of Muslim countries...To the second question, what America could do, al Qaeda's answer was that America should abandon the Middle East, convert to Islam, and end the immorality and godlessness of its society an culture.

The demands to "convert to Islam, and end the immorality and godlessness of its society an culture." have existed since the United States was founded. The thing that has changed is our government's policies and the support of governments, such as Saudi Arabia, which are despised in the Middle East. So yes, I do think our military being on Islamic holy land, the United States government supporting middle east governments that are hated by their citizens and our government ignoring humanitarian crisis after humanitarian crisis, until oil is involved, directly resulted in 9/11.

he has a microscopic following of college kids and that is it

Then you'll have to explain to my why I have been, at 27, the youngest supporter present at 5 of the 6 meetup group events this month? Most of the people at the different events organized in the area are between the age of 30-50. Two of the leaders from the 5 meetup groups within 40 miles of me are hardly even computer literate, at least by anyone posting here's standards. I would say that a majority of the members are middle to working class and have kids. Is there a large web presence, of course, but there is also a very real grassroots effort and it is growing every day. Guess we'll know by about mid-Feb. if it's growing fast enough.

thought Ron Paul was running under the Republican ticket

He is.

I heard this straight out of his mouth during the debates.

Can you give me a youtube link with him saying he wants to get rid of the CIA and FBI?

We think there is a parallel between federal involvement in education and the decline in profit over recent years. --President Reagan, quoted in USA Today, April 26, 1983

In 1980, Ronald Reagan ran for president with the promise that if he were elected, he would abolish the Department of Education.

He isn't the first person to think the federal government shouldn't be involved in education.

 

[Comprehend]

Trassin, could you please quote who you are responding to? It is a little difficult to tell when you omit the name of the person you are quoting.

 

[Trassin]

Yeah, sorry bout that, I'll fix it.

 

[Trassin]

I don't think Ron Paul scares anyone. please, try not to be delusional, he has a microscopic following of college kids and that is it. College kids usually don't even vote (but they sure know how to text a vote eh?).

For anyone who thinks Ron Paul's supporters are just a bunch of college kids take a look at the supporters who are carrying his banners in this video. Those are the oldest looking college kids I've ever seen.

Link

 

[Jistyr]

because the moron wants to get rid of all our intelligence agencies for one, secondly, he thinks that our attacking Iraq in 2003 was a cause of 9/11 in 2001... go figure....


I could go on.

You could go on, but I prefer you don't if your statemets all mimic the last one in their blatant falsity.

 

[mcteethinator]

Okay I'm not a US citizen, but I am half-American and I take a great interest in US politics so bear with me.

1. I'm not a capitalist.
2. I think his pro-life views clash with his libertarianism.
3. I think libertarianism is a ridiculous and flawed idealogy, replacing being screwed over by the government with being screwed over by CEOs. At least it's left socially though!
4. I'm for gun control.
5. I think the Constitution is a flawed document written by racist chauvinist white men. There are good bits, but I think it needs a complete rewrite and I've never been a fan of Constitution-worshipping.

The only thing I like about him is his foreign policy. He's argued it very well. However, agreeing with a candidate on one issue and disagreeing with everything else will not make me support him. I will say this - he is the most staunch anti-imperialist and anti-fascist running, and I admire that. But all his other views are idiotic.

secondly, he thinks that our attacking Iraq in 2003 was a cause of 9/11 in 2001... go figure....

I think the only part of his argument you've heard is what Rush Limbaugh told you. His argument is backed up by the 9/11 Commission Report.

smy mistake, he was arguing that our 1991 attack against Iraq was the cause of 9/11 which is equally insane but at least chronologically possible.

Proven by the 9/11 Commission report.

I would agree with you but increase the percentage.

Because the 9/11 Commission is obviously stupid.

Honestly, when I ask the average guy who dislikes America at my Mosque, he usually gives a reason like "Well they've been dropping bombs on my country" rather than "Because I HATE THEIR FREEDUMZ".

 

[Smoke]

I'm honestly curious why people may be voting for anyone other than Ron Paul. Please share your feelings with me.

All politicians from Texas are nuts. Ron Paul is a good example. He's against legal abortion, equal rights for homosexuals, universal health care, welfare, social security, the Kyoto protocol, hate crime legislation, judicial oversight, separation of church and state, and income taxes.

 

[Trassin]

I'm not a capitalist.

That in and of itself pretty much guarantees that you wouldn't like him.

I think his pro-life views clash with his libertarianism.

I would tend to agree with you. The man is an OB-GYN though so I can accept why he feels this way. I would imagine that delievering 4,000 babies skews your feelings on the right-to-life a bit.

I think libertarianism is a ridiculous and flawed idealogy, replacing being screwed over by the government with being screwed over by CEOs. At least it's left socially though

While I don't think the entire ideology is flawed, I do think that the extremes of the economic policy are flawed. Government does need to interact with business on some level, such as child labor laws and preventing unfair business practices via monopolies. I know that Rep. Paul wouldn't even be able to implement a "pure" libertarian policy if he wanted to. I do think he will step back the massive over reaching that is currently going on in the United States government though.

But all his other views are idiotic.

That's a very broad statement to make. What about his feeling that the United States government needs to take control of its currency back from the federal reserve? Or moving back to the "gold standard".

Honestly, when I ask the average guy who dislikes America at my Mosque, he usually gives a reason like "Well they've been dropping bombs on my country" rather than "Because I HATE THEIR FREEDUMZ".

Anyone who takes the time to actually study the history of the middle east and the United State's history in relation to the middle east will come to this same conclusion

.

 

[Trassin]

He's against legal abortion

You're right, he is pro-life. However, he is also very clear in his belief that the constitution does not give the federal government the right to regulate this issue and that it is a state responsibility, where Americans can have greater control over the laws that affect their lives.

equal rights for homosexuals

He's for equal rights for everyone, that rights are granted as an individual, not because of what "group" you belong to.

universal health care

Yes, he is against the government mandating what individuals should do with their own lives.
Here's how Rep. Paul thinks health care should be reformed

welfare, social security

I'm interested where you have gotten this from? Rep. Paul has said over and over that he understands that entire generations have been raised on a welfare state and that those indiviuals must be taken care of. He is also for allowing people opt out of social security if they wish and instead invest in personal accounts.
Here is one speech he gave on the floor of the house about social security

Kyoto protocol

Rep. Paul's argument against kyoto and the WTO

hate crime legislation

Rep. Paul on hate crimes

judicial oversight

What are you basing this on? Ron Paul has repeatedly called for greater judicial oversight, especially over the activities of the executive branch.

separation of church and state

Here's what Rep. Paul has to say abou it.

income taxes.

And the problem with this is what? What is wrong with someone believing in not only civil liberty but also in finacial liberty?

If you haven't yet seen the video American: Freedom to Fascism I highly recommend watching it.

 

[Mathematician]

Yeah, he wouldn't really be the candidate for you then. If you don't mind me asking, who are you supporting?

Nobody.

 

[Comprehend]

I'm honestly curious why people may be voting for anyone other than Ron Paul. Please share your feelings with me.

I haven't suffered enough brain damage yet, but I'm working on it. :bonk:

 

[mcteethinator]

That in and of itself pretty much guarantees that you wouldn't like him.

Yep.

That's a very broad statement to make. What about his feeling that the United States government needs to take control of its currency back from the federal reserve? Or moving back to the "gold standard".

I'm uninformed about what exactly a gold standard would entail so I wouldn't know. I would agree with you about Ron Paul's views on the debt. The debt is one of the reasons a universal health care system would never work in America. Too bad he's against that too.

Anyone who takes the time to actually study the history of the middle east and the United State's history in relation to the middle east will come to this same conclusion.

I agree. I think Comprehend is deliberately ignoring what Ron Paul actually said on the issue. Despite the fact Osama, the leader of the group that did 9/11, cited the bombing of Iraq during the 90's as one of the reasons he hates America, he's saying the Gulf War and 9/11 are unrelated?