Why fight over religion?

[paarsurrey]

Agree with you on this Even I still belong under the Theravada Buddhist tradition I would say I am no longer that bound to doctrines as I used to be

The doctrines are to be told to others with reason,argument and in a peaceful dialogue. No, force is intended in the truthful religion. Ultimately, reason prevails. Right, please?

Regards
____________
[61:9]یُرِیۡدُوۡنَ لِیُطۡفِـُٔوۡا نُوۡرَ اللّٰہِ بِاَفۡوَاہِہِمۡ وَ اللّٰہُ مُتِمُّ نُوۡرِہٖ وَ لَوۡ کَرِہَ الۡکٰفِرُوۡنَ ﴿۹﴾
They desire to extinguish the light of Allah with the breath of their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, even if the disbelievers hate it.
[61:10]ہُوَ الَّذِیۡۤ اَرۡسَلَ رَسُوۡلَہٗ بِالۡہُدٰی وَ دِیۡنِ الۡحَقِّ لِیُظۡہِرَہٗ عَلَی الدِّیۡنِ کُلِّہٖ وَ لَوۡ کَرِہَ الۡمُشۡرِکُوۡنَ ٪﴿۱۰﴾
He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religions, even if those who associate partners with God hate it.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 61: As-Saff

 

[Spirit of Light]

A

The doctrines are to be told to others with reason,argument and in a peaceful dialogue. No, force is intended in the truthful religion. Ultimately, reason prevails. Right, please?

Regards

As long we deliver the teachings the way it was intended the way it was first delivered then we do not need doctrines directly, As long we cultivate our mind and body within the teaching, we will become the teaching, and we see the truth as it is. not blinded by attachments to this physical realm.

 

[paarsurrey]

Why would Buddhists fight Hindus? If a Buddhist fight someone he or she has not understood the dharma

Similarly, there is no reasonable ground that people belonging to Hinduism should fight with the people belonging to Buddhism or Islam or Christianity. Right, please?

Regards

 

[Spirit of Light]

Similarly, there is no reasonable ground that people belonging to Hinduism should fight with the people belonging to Buddhism or Islam or Christianity. Right, please?

Regards

Yes, but as some already said, some people do not accept that others believe can be right too. So they start to argue, fight and even kill for their so-called right belief. this creat evil deeds toward others

 

[paarsurrey]

That is an interesting question.

It is my understanding that most so-called "religiously"-motivated conflicts are only rarely perceived as such by the involved parties, with one or two notable exceptions that really ought to spring to mind even without my naming them.

There are a few typical scenarios, most of which persist due to competing perspectives and narratives that provide what amounts in law terms to plausible deniability.

- Victimization. Often coupled with promises of vindication of past misdeeds or suffering, real or legendary. The narrative portrays violent actions as necessary defense against dangerous aggressors or even as people that "just can't be trusted". A favorite mainstay of the Abrahamics, who seem to perceive humanity as a whole as a considerably more dangerous and hopeless than most other groups do.

- Competition for resources. Land is a very traditional one, but there are also food and water, political and linguistic influence, access to education, and perhaps a few others as well. This is a particularly tricky one to defuse, because it is usually tied to demographic growth and, very often, to utter inconsequential approaches to same. It is also a very explosive one, for people tend to lose honor and reason rather quickly when they feel threatened, when given absurd promises by populists, nationalists and other manipulators, and certainly when they are starving.

- Promises fulfilled. This one is indeed doctrinary in nature, and at the very bottom of the barrel far as fairness is concerned. Yet it is also often very appealling, although I don't think that it can fairly be called "religious".

"A favorite mainstay of the Abrahamics, who seem to perceive humanity as a whole as a considerably more dangerous and hopeless than most other groups do."

I don't get one exactly. Please elaborate this point for me.

Regards
_______________
[109:1]بِسۡمِ اللّٰہِ الرَّحۡمٰنِ الرَّحِیۡمِ﴿۱﴾
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[109:2]قُلۡ یٰۤاَیُّہَا الۡکٰفِرُوۡنَ ۙ﴿۲﴾
Say, ‘O ye disbelievers!
[109:3]لَاۤ اَعۡبُدُ مَا تَعۡبُدُوۡنَ ۙ﴿۳﴾
‘I worship not that which you worship;
[109:4]وَ لَاۤ اَنۡتُمۡ عٰبِدُوۡنَ مَاۤ اَعۡبُدُ ۚ﴿۴﴾
‘Nor worship you what I worship.
[109:5]وَ لَاۤ اَنَا عَابِدٌ مَّا عَبَدۡتُّمۡ ۙ﴿۵﴾
‘And I am not going to worship that which you worship;
[109:6]وَ لَاۤ اَنۡتُمۡ عٰبِدُوۡنَ مَاۤ اَعۡبُدُ ؕ﴿۶﴾
‘Nor will you worship what I worship.
[109:7]لَکُمۡ دِیۡنُکُمۡ وَلِیَ دِیۡنِ ٪﴿۷﴾
‘For you your religion, and for me my religion.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 109: Al-Kafirun

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why belong to a religion where people fight, even to death, over doctrine? Any religion worth anything would allow for individual differences because we are not a one-size-fits-all kind of creature. The more I see the two of the four Abrahamic religions fight, the more I am thankful that I no longer belong to any of them. Chill out!

I have seen it written "that Religion is the chief foundation of Love and Unity and the cause of Oneness. If a religion become the cause of hatred and disharmony, it would be better that it should not exist. To be without such a religion is better than to be with it." (Baha'u'llah)

Good advice, I say.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But for me, I welcome a person who says my religion is wrong.
Because if my religion is wrong and someone points out that it is fake
I wouldn't want to stay any minute longer
To stay would mean I would be wasting my time, energy and money
over a fake religion.

I took on a religion because it is my insurance policy
My assurance with God that on the day when He orders
His Son back, I will be saved

And while this world keeps on turning, I would pray
without doubting, all my problems to God and ask for the things that I need
in the name of His Son, my Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ

It is very easy to say that, but in reality few can actually achieve what you have suggested.

I can say the doctrins of the churches have blinded Christians from accepting Christ's promised return. Christianity did get it wrong. Jesus the Christ and the Bible are not wrong.

Now you are able to fulfil your pledge.

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

Sorry, but Muslims have traditionally been the aggressors. This dates back to the Muhgal Empire when the Muslims conquered and colonized India. Defending one's homeland and culture is hardly picking a fight.

But please, tell us more about the ongoing Buddhist/Hindu conflicts you referenced in post #5 of this thread.

"Sorry, but Muslims have traditionally been the aggressors."

There is no such teaching in Quran to be aggressors. Right, please?

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"Sorry, but Muslims have traditionally been the aggressors."

There is no such teaching in Quran to be aggressors. Right, please?

Regards

Sometimes the best form of defense is attack. This was a tatic used in the time of Muhammad.

What must be considered though, is those battles were started by the aggressors.

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists
I don't think there is such thing in their hearts true pacifism and religious tolerance.
There is always a cause for trouble, conflict and war.

As long as people are people - we are all prone to sin.
It does not matter if a person believes in a religion or not.
Therefore LETS GET REAL Buddhist are not that special.

"There is always a cause for trouble, conflict and war."

Yes. It is true. Humanity should join and get together to eradicate this negative trait in them.

Regards
_____________
[2:31]وَ اِذۡ قَالَ رَبُّکَ لِلۡمَلٰٓئِکَۃِ اِنِّیۡ جَاعِلٌ فِی الۡاَرۡضِ خَلِیۡفَۃً ؕ قَالُوۡۤا اَتَجۡعَلُ فِیۡہَا مَنۡ یُّفۡسِدُ فِیۡہَا وَ یَسۡفِکُ الدِّمَآءَ ۚ وَ نَحۡنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمۡدِکَ وَ نُقَدِّسُ لَکَ ؕ قَالَ اِنِّیۡۤ اَعۡلَمُ مَا لَا تَعۡلَمُوۡنَ ﴿۳۱﴾
And when thy Lord said to the angels: ‘I am about to place a vicegerent in the earth,’ they said: ‘Wilt Thou place therein such as will cause disorder in it, and shed blood? — and we glorify Thee with Thy praise and extol Thy holiness.’ He answered: ‘I know what you know not.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 2: Al-Baqarah

 

[paarsurrey]

It goes back much further, as a matter of fact. And it is complicated by a very well consolidated narrative that Islaam is targeted by dangeous people and apparently always was, and therefore has an unavoidable need to defend itself. Often preemptively, or in submission to the judgement of the Qur'an or of some "religious" authority.

In truth, Islaam is a very serious threat to the very idea of self-criticism.

"In truth, Islaam is a very serious threat to the very idea of self-criticism."

I disagree with one here.
I visualize that Islam/Quran/Muhammad is the most peaceful, practical/pragmatic and rational religion/no-religion.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

You will always be able to find those who do wrong within Buddhism too, As you say we are people too. But for most of us we try to do our best to not harm anyone with words, actions or thoughts. And I have no intention to "convince" you about that Buddhism would be right for you, you gave the answer your self. from your posts, it is clear that you only see your own spiritual path as the right one (not a problem for me).

As a buddhist it hurt to see other Buddhists who harm other people or animals for their own gaining of power or land, they do not follow true dharma when they do this.
There is no need to hate or become evil toward others just because they would treat me poorly.

"As a buddhist it hurt to see other Buddhists who harm other people or animals for their own gaining of power or land, they do not follow true dharma when they do this."

Similarly, as a follower of Islam it hurts to see other Muslims who harm other people or animals for their own gaining of power or land, they do not follow the truthful and peaceful teachings of Islam/Quran/Muhammad when they do this. Right, please?
They simply do politics.

Regards

 

[Spirit of Light]

"As a buddhist it hurt to see other Buddhists who harm other people or animals for their own gaining of power or land, they do not follow true dharma when they do this."

Similarly, as a follower of Islam it hurts to see other Muslims who harm other people or animals for their own gaining of power or land, they do not follow the truthful and peaceful teachings of Islam/Quran/Muhammad when they do this. Right, please?
They simply do politics.

Regards

Yes, it counts for all religions/spiritual practices.

 

[paarsurrey]

If you truly believe you wouldn't fight.

I suggest a little amendment.
If you truly believe you wouldn't be aggressor to fight. Right, please?

Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

"A favorite mainstay of the Abrahamics, who seem to perceive humanity as a whole as a considerably more dangerous and hopeless than most other groups do."

I don't get one exactly. Please elaborate this point for me.

The doctrines that acknowledge Ibrahim as a prophet seem to me to have a remarkably bad opinion of humankind, to the point that it often looks like their adherents are expected to actually feel shame for simply existing, and to keep expecting some conception of Ibrahim's God to chastise or command them.

 

[LuisDantas]

"In truth, Islaam is a very serious threat to the very idea of self-criticism."

I disagree with one here.
I visualize that Islam/Quran/Muhammad is the most peaceful, practical/pragmatic and rational religion/no-religion.

Regards

A common enough claim. But a very difficult one to sustain.

 

[paarsurrey]

Sometimes the best form of defense is attack. This was a tatic used in the time of Muhammad.

What must be considered though, is those battles were started by the aggressors.

Regards Tony

"What must be considered though, is those battles were started by the aggressors."

Yes, it is true, they (the Meccans) denied co-existence to Muslims.

Regards
____________________
Religion is not the Cause of the World’s Problems but is the Solution

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Religion is not the Cause of the World’s Problems but is the Solution | Islam Ahmadiyya

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The doctrines that acknowledge Ibrahim as a prophet seem to me to have a remarkably bad opinion of humankind, to the point that it often looks like their adherents are expected to actually feel shame for simply existing, and to keep expecting some conception of Ibrahim's God to chastise or command them.

This is where I see the balance must be found, a cohesion between East and West, North and South.

I have read that God is more of a friend to us, than we are to our own selves.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, but as some already said, some people do not accept that others believe can be right too. So they start to argue, fight and even kill for their so-called right belief. this creat evil deeds toward others

I had an interesting real life chat with a seeker the other day. He's been trying for quite some time to fine the 'right' way, and kept going to religions that claimed theirs was the right way. He moved through several of those styles of religion, and nobody was able to convince him. So he found himself with me on an introductory visit to a Hindu temple. He'd done minimal reading, but did understand that we weren't proclaiming, like all the others he'd been through, that we had the right way. So he found it refreshing, and one of his comments that stood out for me was, "This whole thing is just so incredibly different. It's like a different paradigm." I must admit I thought of this forum. But it was also the sense of 'religion' he got from being there, in that quiet place.

I just want to say, "Get over it. It's only belief."

 

[Spirit of Light]

I had an interesting real life chat with a seeker the other day. He's been trying for quite some time to fine the 'right' way, and kept going to religions that claimed theirs was the right way. He moved through several of those styles of religion, and nobody was able to convince him. So he found himself with me on an introductory visit to a Hindu temple. He'd done minimal reading, but did understand that we weren't proclaiming, like all the others he'd been through, that we had the right way. So he found it refreshing, and one of his comments that stood out for me was, "This whole thing is just so incredibly different. It's like a different paradigm." I must admit I thought of this forum. But it was also the sense of 'religion' he got from being there, in that quiet place.

I just want to say, "Get over it. It's only belief."

I recognize my self in your story of the person seeking