Why Fundamentalist Christianities are Godless and reject the Bible

[NeedingGnosisNow]

In the book Anti-Christ by Nietzche he said "All priests are liars." That means that whenever you speak with absolute authority about something you cannot prove, the decision to speak with such authority means that you are ready to live as a liar.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

In the book Anti-Christ by Nietzche he said "All priests are liars." That means that whenever you speak with absolute authority about something you cannot prove, the decision to speak with such authority means that you are ready to live as a liar.

He says a lot worse things than that about "priests." :beach:

 

[Reverend Rick]

I believe we focus on many aspects of a person's sex life that really is none of our business. What a person does in private should not be on our minds long enough to get excited or repulsed.

What a person needs to do is treat everyone the same and quit hyper focusing on their private lives.

 

[Alceste]

I think that fundamentalist evangelical Christianity has its fullest expression in atheism because of its godless nature. There are many reasons for this, but the root of all the problems (at least that I can think of) are rooted in the fundamentalists ruthless, brutal, and mindless commitment to the literal interpretation of Scripture (or what they think is a literal interpretation).

So with respect to ethics, it doesn't matter how insane a practice is, who it harms, or how stupid it is, if it adheres to the perceived literal interpretation of Scripture, then they will do it. That is Godless - no attention or fear of God with respect to the commandment to love (many other commands notwithstanding). It is Godless to ignore the needs and nature of ourselves and our fellow human beings because God created us in his image. So yes, homosexuals are created in the image of God.

As for its full expression in atheism:

Fundamentalist evangelicals believe that the bible is God's inerrant and infallible word. So basically the Bible is completely perfect.

1) On the one hand, just about all the teachings of Jesus may as well be toilet paper because evangelicals never tire of completely disregarding them

2) More importantly, an evangelical who sees that their literal interpretation is incorrect has to resort to atheism because God would no longer be the perfect God that they worshiped.

This is why fundamentalist beliefs are inherently Godless. They think that the Bible is perfect from a perfect God, but they treat the Bible with the greatest contempt and when they wake up from this pipe dream they have to deny Christ.

What a shame.

The main problem with your post is that you are conflating amorality and mindless obedience to a nonsensical doctrine with atheism. That boat doesn't float - and you probably know it after talking to us for all these years.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The main problem with your post is that you are conflating amorality and mindless obedience to a nonsensical doctrine with atheism. That boat doesn't float - and you probably know it after talking to us for all these years.

So do you not understand the "turning from something" then "turning to something?" I never said, insinuated, or implied that atheism is anything like evangelical fundamentalism. To read it otherwise is a brutal misunderstanding.

Also, as you know, not everyone comes to atheism/Christianity/ or any religion in a mature or proper way.

What I am saying is that evangelical fundamentalism has its perfection in atheism - and the reason for that is that it's godless in the first place. I see this movement FROM evangelical fundamentalism TO atheism as an improvement because the atheism would at least be intellectually honest.

I trace the TRANSFORMATION from godless fundamentalism TO atheism (something radically different) through the godless interpretation and application of Scripture - once the fundie sees the imperfections of Scripture, the godlessness must be actualized.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I see this movement FROM evangelical fundamentalism TO atheism as an improvement because the atheism would at least be intellectually honest.

As an erstwhile atheist, I thank you.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

As an erstwhile atheist, I thank you.

:foryou:

 

[Reverend Rick]

once the fundie sees the imperfections of Scripture, the godlessness must be actualized.

Dr. Nate, I was following you oh so well right up to this point.

I see the imperfections of scripture, sure. That does not mean you believe we should throw the baby away with the bath water does it?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Dr. Nate, I was following you oh so well right up to this point.

I see the imperfections of scripture, sure. That does not mean you believe we should throw the baby away with the bath water does it?

Well, you can't believe on one hand that Scripture is perfect and on the other acknowledge its imperfections.

 

[Willamena]

Dr. Nate, I was following you oh so well right up to this point.

I see the imperfections of scripture, sure. That does not mean you believe we should throw the baby away with the bath water does it?

His forumla only works if Fundamentalists are truly literalists.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Well, you can't believe on one hand that Scripture is perfect and on the other acknowledge its imperfections.

I do not do this. I never believed scripture was perfect, but I know alot of people who do. I think that is intellectually dishonest.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I do not do this. I never believed scripture was perfect, but I know alot of people who do. I think that is intellectually dishonest.

Well, that's what I'm talking about.

I'm not talking about all evangelicals, but believing that the bible is perfect is a hallmark of fundamentalism, which is what I am talking about.

If you don't believe that the bible is perfect, then atheism isn't the perfection of your godlessness.

 

[Copernicus]

What I am saying is that evangelical fundamentalism has its perfection in atheism - and the reason for that is that it's godless in the first place. I see this movement FROM evangelical fundamentalism TO atheism as an improvement because the atheism would at least be intellectually honest.

This still strikes me as wrong for at least two reasons. One is that lapsed fundamentalists--those who come closer to agreement with your interpretation of scripture--tend not to "move to" atheism, but to a different form of Christianity--something closer to your version of it. They still have a conception of God, but that conception shifts to one that does not depend on the perfection of the Bible from your perspective. Atheism is not just rejection of belief in a specific god, but of gods in general.

The second is that, however crazy or poorly thought out the fundamentalist God may be, they still relate to that God in the same way that you relate to your version. They just do not see their God or their Jesus as requiring the same behavior that your God does. This is really about you rejecting their religious perspective on the grounds that it would lead you to reject belief in God, were you in their shoes. What makes someone a theist is belief in the existence of a god. It doesn't really matter whether their belief is sustainable from your point of view.

 

[Alceste]

So do you not understand the "turning from something" then "turning to something?" I never said, insinuated, or implied that atheism is anything like evangelical fundamentalism. To read it otherwise is a brutal misunderstanding.

Also, as you know, not everyone comes to atheism/Christianity/ or any religion in a mature or proper way.

What I am saying is that evangelical fundamentalism has its perfection in atheism - and the reason for that is that it's godless in the first place. I see this movement FROM evangelical fundamentalism TO atheism as an improvement because the atheism would at least be intellectually honest.

I trace the TRANSFORMATION from godless fundamentalism TO atheism (something radically different) through the godless interpretation and application of Scripture - once the fundie sees the imperfections of Scripture, the godlessness must be actualized.

Well, that's a little clearer than the OP - at first I thought you were arguing that fundamentalism itself is atheistic. If you think it only leads people down the gleaming road to atheism, that's a different story!

I do tend to think, barring a psychologically transformative experience, once a fanatic, always a fanatic. On leaving the church, ex-fundamentalists seem more likely to become fanatical about some other "true" dogma that to become critical thinkers and skeptics.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is why fundamentalist beliefs are inherently Godless. They think that the Bible is perfect from a perfect God, but they treat the Bible with the greatest contempt and when they wake up from this pipe dream they have to deny Christ.

After giving it some thought, that pretty much sums up what happened to me when I deconverted. I found out the truth can hit pretty hard when that happened.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well, that's a little clearer than the OP - at first I thought you were arguing that fundamentalism itself is atheistic. If you think it only leads people down the gleaming road to atheism, that's a different story!

I do tend to think, barring a psychologically transformative experience, once a fanatic, always a fanatic. On leaving the church, ex-fundamentalists seem more likely to become fanatical about some other "true" dogma that to become critical thinkers and skeptics.

OK - I'm glad to clarify myself.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I'd like to know what the standard definition of a Fundamentalist is. If people are questioning the accuracy of the Bible than we're simply dulling the sword God has given to fight evil. I know some people include abstaining from dance, smkoing, and alcohol are part of Fundamentalist practices. Obviously a consdervative take on the "social issues" is part of that but what else?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I'm curious how Christians go about discerning "errors" in God's word. I'm also at a loss for words if there are Christian "leaders" telling their flock that the Bible isn't completely trustworthy.

 

[Copernicus]

I do tend to think, barring a psychologically transformative experience, once a fanatic, always a fanatic. On leaving the church, ex-fundamentalists seem more likely to become fanatical about some other "true" dogma that to become critical thinkers and skeptics.

This is my view, as well, and it predates all of this religious discussion. When I was a draft counselor back in the 1960s and 1970s, I came into contact with a lot of different political viewpoints on the left and right. At that time, a lot of young people who had been "Youth for Goldwater" members ended up switching over to the anti-war movement. Some of the more radical leftists that I met had been radical right wingers. Moderates on the right tended to become moderates on the left. I gained the impression that people did not really change their tactics so much as they changed the goal to which they applied their tactics.

In the case of Dan Barker, I see this perception as born out by the reality. He started out being a very radical conservative Christian who felt an obligation to "save souls" for Jesus. After his deconversion, he went through a soul-searching period in which he tried to maintain his religion as a liberal Christian. Ultimately, he deconverted entirely and became an atheist. After that, he began writing atheist "evangelical" hymns that exactly mirrored his earlier career as a songwriter of Christian evangelical songs. The anti-Christian songs never really went anywhere, but Barker has remained one of those atheists who dedicated himself to going out and publicly making a big deal of his opposition to Christianity. He did strike me as being more of a fanatical enthusiast for his rejection of religion than a critical thinker about Christian doctrines. Anyway, that is just my very subjective impression.

 

[godtrap]

I do tend to think, barring a psychologically transformative experience, once a fanatic, always a fanatic. On leaving the church, ex-fundamentalists seem more likely to become fanatical about some other "true" dogma that to become critical thinkers and skeptics.

Way too generalized of a statement and without any basis in reality. I've dealt with many ex-fundamentalists. Most don't want anything to do with any sort of dogmatic belief system after coming out of fundamentalism. If anything, they are fanatically silent and avoid joining any sort of grouping type belief system. Certainly there are those who become fanatically opposed to fundamentalism and, I think, out of a sincere understanding and concern for their fellow man, do so to prevent the damage that fundamentalism causes. I would say that the ones who vocally challenge and oppose fundamentalist ideology are way in the minority. This is just my opinion, of course. I would refer any who are curious to a good book by Edward Babinski, Leaving the Fold: Testimonies of Former Fundamentalists.


Still, I would argue that the fundamentalist is not an atheist by any means. His God is his book. This would be my most basic definition of a fundamentalist.