Why has science failed so miserably?

[Sunstone]

Funny...

On that we agree.

... but I would say the same thing about many NASA projects :yes:

Such as?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Such as?

Maybe I can say it like this. Of the Billions and billions spent to Nasa from taxpayers, I have a hard time seeing anything close to a return on that investment.

Any business model in the world, after receiving hundreds of billions of dollars would need to prove something of similar value in return. I have had a hard time researching and finding this return on investment.

I say that without pointing out specific projects, because I am not sure it necessary to make the point I just made.

Though some say there can be no price tag on space exploration. Some of us disagree I guess.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

ps... I feel I should also touch on the grant process... to get the small grant, the lab had to write a detailed proposal, including what research has done in the past, what it plans on doing in the future and how it will advance scientific knowledge in the process. Crap doesn't fly because you have to painstakingly justify your work from start to finish. Then you have to account for the money and where it goes. They don't just hand out money.

wa:do

On small scale items like this yes I agree, accountability is much greater, easier and tighter. It always is for those actually doing the work!
However, larger billion dollar grants to NASA, NIH etc... are so complicated that very few could even understand if there is real value in what these agencies are asking for, in the sense that there is a balance to the investment being asked for and the value that will be delivered.
Furthermore, these larger grants come with nice marketing efforts to give the public the BS version of the grant, because the average Joe is too stupid to know what the grants are really paying for.

 

[painted wolf]

GPS, cell phones, solar power, bacteria that can resist arsenic and may provide a way to teat arsinic tainted water systems cheaply and quickly..... Nah, NASA is a waste of money...

Given the % of GDP we put into it, I think it's pretty well paid off.

wa:do

 

[PolyHedral]

For more so than the military spending...

 

[painted wolf]

NASA and NIH are the ones that do the research review and pass on the money to useful projects.

Unless you want to trust politicians to do all that decision making for us? Because they have an awesome track record of knowing what good science is and isn't.

wa:do

 

[Sunstone]

Maybe I can say it like this. Of the Billions and billions spent to Nasa from taxpayers, I have a hard time seeing anything close to a return on that investment.

Any business model in the world, after receiving hundreds of billions of dollars would need to prove something of similar value in return. I have had a hard time researching and finding this return on investment.

I say that without pointing out specific projects, because I am not sure it necessary to make the point I just made.

Though some say there can be no price tag on space exploration. Some of us disagree I guess.

To each his own.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

GPS, cell phones, solar power, bacteria that can resist arsenic and may provide a way to teat arsinic tainted water systems cheaply and quickly..... Nah, NASA is a waste of money...

Given the % of GDP we put into it, I think it's pretty well paid off.

wa:do

That's funny. You think that stuff couldn't come to development by other means? And how much money do you think has gone into NASA?

Those technologies you speak of, would never cost what we have spent on NASA

 

[Just_me_Mike]

NASA and NIH are the ones that do the research review and pass on the money to useful projects.

Unless you want to trust politicians to do all that decision making for us? Because they have an awesome track record of knowing what good science is and isn't.

wa:do

Ha! And NASA and politicians have no elbow rubbing history huh

 

[McBell]

Why has science failed so miserably to convey that the laws of nature (physics) can not be suspended or altered no matter how much we wish and pray?

If faith is ever right about anything it is right by accident.

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

 

[LuisDantas]

Sorry it is news, but it doesn't take much to google how bad research funding is hurting right now in America.
Arts and Science have both taken a big hit in our culture the last year and even beyond a year, but it has been very bad this last year.

Actually I was surprised by the part about the supposed abuse from the scientific community. I assumed funds to be scarce currently, from the economic impact of the wars.

I'm still not convinced, exception made to military "research", of course.

 

[LuisDantas]

Source

The line in bold at the end is always a red flag to keep your eyes open. While statements like that can be true, they are more often than not fear mongering.

Not so in scientific research.

 

[LuisDantas]

That's funny. You think that stuff couldn't come to development by other means? And how much money do you think has gone into NASA?

Those technologies you speak of, would never cost what we have spent on NASA

NASA has been largely losing influence in the last few decades. Its funding isn't what it used to be - and unfortunately, what little it has is mostly for military purposes now

Still, it is hard to think how GPS and other kinds of satellite-based research projects could have come to be without some kind of space travel research program.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Not so in scientific research.

Well I pointed out how wasteful NASA is (of course that is only my opinion) I do not support what they do. They lobby for much of the funds available, and I disagree with what it is used for largely.

As Sunstone said, to each is own though.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

NASA has been largely losing influence in the last few decades. Its funding isn't what it used to be - and unfortunately, what little it has is mostly for military purposes now

Still, it is hard to think how GPS and other kinds of satellite-based research projects could have come to be without some kind of space travel research program.

I have a friend that works in a private satellite firm, and they do TONS of R&D in GPS fields. NASA is by far NOT the only arena for that.
Space travel I could care less about.

 

[Panda]

I have a friend that works in a private satellite firm, and they do TONS of R&D in GPS fields. NASA is by far NOT the only arena for that.
Space travel I could care less about.

Um, who do you think put the GPS network up there? And who do you think pushed the areas that these private companies now work in?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Um, who do you think put the GPS network up there? And who do you think pushed the areas that these private companies now work in?

Umm sure as hell not NASA. Why do you ask?
As I understand it only until sometime in the early decade of 2000 did NASA have anything to do with GPS.

So I just googled it and DOD is responsible for GPS. Not NASA

 

[PolyHedral]

All space technology originates from NASA, somewhere along the line.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

All space technology originates from NASA, somewhere along the line.

Horse crap

 

[Just_me_Mike]

However I hand it to the marketing arm of NASA, apparently it works!