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Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

Are all Ten commandments binding?


  • Total voters
    79

AK4

Well-Known Member
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If Paul was in harmony with the Law, why would he preach against the Law, Moses, and the Jewish customs? Take a look at Acts 21:21. If this is to be in harmony, one of us ought to return to elementary school.

Ben:rolleyes:

Acts 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

You keep trying to make false statements by pulling out verses. Numerous times in just Acts alone it is saying Paul is preaching the Word of God. I think this verse describes you pretty well.

Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

May God forgive you for you not know what you do

 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Acts 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

You keep trying to make false statements by pulling out verses. Numerous times in just Acts alone it is saying Paul is preaching the Word of God. I think this verse describes you pretty well.

Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

May God forgive you for you not know what you do
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You did the reading above with the eyes of your flesh. Now, let me help you read it with the eyes of your mind. Then, later, you can pray so that I be forgiven for not knowing what I am doing.

Paul arrived for a visit with the intent to study the possibility to transfer his headquarters from Antioch to Jerusalem, which was his lifetime dream. The last time he had been in Jerusalem was 14 years before, when he caused such a havoc in Jerusalem preaching that Jesus was the Messiah, son of God, and that he had resurrected, that the Jews almost killed him, if the Nazarenes had not taken him down to Ceasarea and shipped him back to Tarsus where he belonged. He had even endangered the Nazarenes in Jerusalem. Tertullus, a Lawyer hired by the High Priest had accused him before Felix and linked him with the Sect of Nazarenes.

Now, for this second visit, he had become too important to be discarded lightly. Then, two were the reasons for James and the Elders to treat him the way they did.
First, Paul had become something like a Pope to several churches throughout Asia Minor. The man was now important. The second reason is that James remembered what he did the last time and, afraid that something worse could happen, he advised him - Paul - to camouflage as an observer of the Law by getting together with four other Jews who were concluding a vow at the Temple, although Paul was not. But it didn't help. Some Jews from Asia recognized him in the Temple and arrested him. Why? Because God is not to be mocked. Then, afraid to be delivered unto the Jews, he appealed to Ceaser and was taken to Rome where he stayed in house arrest till his death.

Now, you tell me if it's not much more sensible to think with one's mind.

Benn )(
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
It appears that we are assigning motives to Paul that just aren't there. Let's hear from Paul:

I Corinthians 9:

19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
NIV

Paul was a chameleon. Unlike MANY Christians today who shove their brand of Christianity in everyone's faces, Paul did whatever he needed to do to save some. He was a RADICAL, which is why many were angry with him. Paul went through GREAT lengths to not be a stumbling block to others.

Make no doubt about it: if you are holding to the rules and regulations found in OT you are missing out on the FREEDOM found in Jesus. In fact, if you have exchanged the laws in the OT for yet another set of laws in the NT, you are ALSO missing out. You are nothing but a legalist.

This is LONG, but it's incredibly important in understanding our FREEDOM from all such laws and regulations:

Colossians 2

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
NIV
 

mikmik

Member
Make no doubt about it: if you are holding to the rules and regulations found in OT you are missing out on the FREEDOM found in Jesus. In fact, if you have exchanged the laws in the OT for yet another set of laws in the NT, you are ALSO missing out.

Well, let me try asking you this question again...

So you are not a sinner then?????

mik
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Well, let me try asking you this question again...

So you are not a sinner then?????

mik
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Every man who has ever walked on this earth is a sinner, and that includes Jesus, who was a man on this earth.

Ben:sorry1:
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Well, let me try asking you this question again...

So you are not a sinner then?????

mik
Of course I am. Do you think that I can follow the Law of Christ perfectly? Candidly speaking, your inability to understand the FREEDOM we have in Christ is incredibly irritating. It would be SO MUCH EASIER if you submitted yourself to the teaching of (and about) the Spirit here and stop trying to justify yourself with the Law.

Fortunately, even though I am flawed, the Law of Grace is also at work within me, and I am growing in that Grace...

II Corinthians 3

18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
NIV
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
It appears that we are assigning motives to Paul that just aren't there. Let's hear from Paul:

I Corinthians 9:

19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. NIV

Paul was a chameleon. Unlike MANY Christians today who shove their brand of Christianity in everyone's faces, Paul did whatever he needed to do to save some. He was a RADICAL, which is why many were angry with him. Paul went through GREAT lengths to not be a stumbling block to others.

Make no doubt about it: if you are holding to the rules and regulations found in OT you are missing out on the FREEDOM found in Jesus. In fact, if you have exchanged the laws in the OT for yet another set of laws in the NT, you are ALSO missing out. You are nothing but a legalist.

This is LONG, but it's incredibly important in understanding our FREEDOM from all such laws and regulations:

Colossians 2

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. NIV






Of course I am. Do you think that I can follow the Law of Christ perfectly? Candidly speaking, your inability to understand the FREEDOM we have in Christ is incredibly irritating. It would be SO MUCH EASIER if you submitted yourself to the teaching of (and about) the Spirit here and stop trying to justify yourself with the Law.

Fortunately, even though I am flawed, the Law of Grace is also at work within me, and I am growing in that Grace...

II Corinthians 3

18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
NIV
__________________
"Anybody who believes that the Republicans, whoever they are, can fix the mess they created
probably believes that the iceberg could have saved the Titanic."
--Hillary Clinton​

AMEN!!! Great posts
 
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AK4

Well-Known Member
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Every man who has ever walked on this earth is a sinner, and that includes Jesus, who was a man on this earth.

Ben:sorry1:

See what you dont know

Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. :sorry1: No. I pray to the Lord that your eyes be opened and you stop resisting His Spirit.

Ac 7:51 - Show Context "You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!
 

mikmik

Member
Of course I am. Do you think that I can follow the Law of Christ perfectly? Candidly speaking, your inability to understand the FREEDOM we have in Christ is incredibly irritating. It would be SO MUCH EASIER if you submitted yourself to the teaching of (and about) the Spirit here and stop trying to justify yourself with the Law.

Fortunately, even though I am flawed, the Law of Grace is also at work within me, and I am growing in that Grace...


I know that all have sinned. I just asked because you speak over and over again about there being no law, and sin by definition is transgression of the law. You can state it over and over that you are following the law of love or whatever, but just admit it, you are actually following the commandments.. you have only renamed it. If you lie, kill, disrespect your parents, serve an idol,, are you sinning? You are following all of the same rules (except the Sabbath, but only because you believe that Paul changed it),, but you don't call these commandments. Are you fooling yourself? Doesn't matter, you know what is right and wrong, no matter what title you give it.

To assume that I do not understand because I do not agree with you is a mistake on your part. I see you state over and over again that I am trying to justify myself with the law, that I am trying to earn salvation by following the law.. not true. I have never said that. I know that I am justified by His blood, but saved by His life. (Rom 5.9-10) It is His life that I focus on,, His teaching and His examples. Following the law gets me NOTHING, I don't do it for the receiving of anything, for any reward. Following God's commandments I do solely as an act of giving. Jesus said "If you love Me, keep my commandments." (John 14.15) and "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me." (John 14.21); and we are told that "this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome." (1 John 5.3) Every time I am tempted to lie about something, and I choose the truth, I don't see it as an act of righteousness that has earned me something.. I would not fool myself for one minute to believe that. I told the truth as an act of love towards God and my neighbor. And I also recognize the fact that this concept of telling the truth also happens to be a real commandment, and that is not some crazy coincidence.

So six of one, half dozen of the other, whatever!! If you are striving daily to not sin, then you are actually trying to follow the commandments,, at least 9 of them. Now, if we could just get you keeping the Sabbath, as another statement of love for God (not as an act of earning salvation),, you'll be good to go!!!

I apologize if I am irritating you... Don't be irritated, be happy!

mik
 

mikmik

Member
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Every man who has ever walked on this earth is a sinner, and that includes Jesus, who was a man on this earth.

Ben:sorry1:

Dude,, Jesus didn't sin. Matt 4.1-11, Heb 4.15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

mik
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
If you are striving daily to not sin,
It's not that I try to not "sin", it's that I strive to serve and love others.

But hey, I have presented a ton of scriptures how the Law has no hold on us, and yet you want to legalistically adhere to them. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink: no matter how pure and good that water is.

The Law is DEAD, and those who follow it, are also dead.

Romans 7

1 Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3 So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.
4 So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
NIV

Now you may see this as merely semantics... the writer of Romans doesn't appear to. I wonder if you consider him a hypocrite? Now, here is why following the law is bogus for Christians: It has been completely replaced by LOVE.

I John 4

7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
13 We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19 We love because he first loved us. 20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.
NIV

So, as a Christian, you have a choice. Live under the Law and in fear of sinning, OR live under love and the promise of a wonderful life for doing so. Not later: RIGHT NOW.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
BTW, I may have mentioned this before... but the poll leaves out the correct choice.

[] No, they were nailed to the cross and died with Jesus. Fortunately, only Jesus was resurrected.
 
BTW, I may have mentioned this before... but the poll leaves out the correct choice.

[] No, they were nailed to the cross and died with Jesus. Fortunately, only Jesus was resurrected.
What was? Depends on what translation you read. If you are reading the NIV, it would lead you believe it is talking about the Law. Obviously it was not. If it was, Paul would not have discussed it in a parenthetical way. He would have made it the central theme. He would not have done it in a vague way, What is left is the understanding you are given by reading the NASB, which is that it was the decree of guilt against us, that was nailed to the cross.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
What was? Depends on what translation you read. If you are reading the NIV, it would lead you believe it is talking about the Law. Obviously it was not. If it was, Paul would not have discussed it in a parenthetical way. He would have made it the central theme. He would not have done it in a vague way, What is left is the understanding you are given by reading the NASB, which is that it was the decree of guilt against us, that was nailed to the cross.
+++++++++++++++++++++

What's the difference between the decree of guilt against us and the Law? These are two synonymous terms. There is no way the mend the Pauline fiasco.
Ben:rolleyes:
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Methinks that thou dost Protestant too much! :D

No, the translation doesn't really matter. Just go to the Greek, if you need to:

H agnoeite, (5719) adelfoi, ginwskousin (5723) gar nomon lalw, (5719) oti o nomov kurieuei (5719) tou anqrwpou ef' oson xronon zh? from Interlinear Study Bible on StudyLight.org

It's really not that hard in this day and age to figure out what the scriptures say... as long as you don't let your tradition twist it to read what you want it to read: itching ears and all of that, you know. :D


What was? Depends on what translation you read. If you are reading the NIV, it would lead you believe it is talking about the Law. Obviously it was not. If it was, Paul would not have discussed it in a parenthetical way. He would have made it the central theme. He would not have done it in a vague way, What is left is the understanding you are given by reading the NASB, which is that it was the decree of guilt against us, that was nailed to the cross.
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
+++++++++++++++++++++

What's the difference between the decree of guilt against us and the Law? These are two synonymous terms. There is no way the mend the Pauline fiasco.
Ben:rolleyes:


What do the have against Paul? If you got something against Paul, you have something against all the Apostles and Jesus. Cuz they all agree and are on one accord, in one Spirit. You disagree with one, you disagree with them all.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
What do the have against Paul? If you got something against Paul, you have something against all the Apostles and Jesus. Cuz they all agree and are on one accord, in one Spirit. You disagree with one, you disagree with them all.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That's what you think because you haven't studied the Book of Acts as you should, as well as Paul's Letters to the churches.

The Apostles founded the Sect of the Nazarenes soon after Jesus' crucifixion and Paul used to persecute the Nazarenes until the Road to Damascus, and Psychologogically from then on till his last station in Rome.

With reference to Jesus, if he was around when Paul started spreading his things about Jesus, this would have been the first to rise against him. Paul succeeded only
because Jesus was dead already about 30 years when Paul started preaching that Jesus was the Messiah, son of God, and that he had resurrected.

Last but not least, to more properly answer your question, I have against Paul to have founded a religion that has shedded more Jewish blood through Christian progroms, Christian Crusades, Christian Inquisition and lately, the Holocaust than all the wars we have faced.
Ben:sorry1:
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Last but not least, to more properly answer your question, I have against Paul to have founded a religion that has shedded more Jewish blood through Christian progroms, Christian Crusades, Christian Inquisition and lately, the Holocaust than all the wars we have faced.
Ben:sorry1:

This is an expression of artless, obstinate stupidity. (Behold the gaping abyss...)

Are you able to provide numbers to back up your claims? How many people died in each time period due to Christian "programs" and how many people died as a result of genocide and wars that were not caused by Christianity?
 
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+++++++++++++++++++++

What's the difference between the decree of guilt against us and the Law? These are two synonymous terms. There is no way the mend the Pauline fiasco.
Ben:rolleyes:
There is a big difference between being freed of the condemnation of the Law and being freed from the Law. One of these two things were destroyed. If it is the condemnation that is destroyed, we are freed to follow the Law spiritually. If the Law itself is destroyed, we do away with the tool that the Spirit uses to purify us and prepare us for heaven.
 
This is an expression of artless, obstinate stupidity. (Behold the gaping abyss...)

Are you able to provide numbers to back up your claims? How many people died in each time period due to Christian "programs" and how many people died as a result of genocide and wars that were not caused by Christianity?
The Mongols and the Turks killed a lot of people and the Arabs did a lot of killing while they swept across North Africa. (the same genocide is still going on today) Chairman Mao was not a Christian and he killed more people than any other single man. Anti-Christians like to condemn the Crusades but they never would have happened, in the first place, if it was not for the military conquests of the Muslims.
So, to condemn Paul for inventing a murderous religion is a little questionable, to me.
 
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