Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

[Scuba Pete]

Colossians 2

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. NIV

A long time ago in a Kingdom far, far away God made this promise:

Jeremiah 31

31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to [d] them, [e] "
declares the LORD.

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people. NIV

See, the OLD covenant has passed, and we are in a NEW one, where the laws are written on our minds and hearts. That's the REAL deal. External rules were but a shadow.

 

[mikmik]

Colossians 2

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. NIV

A long time ago in a Kingdom far, far away God made this promise:

Jeremiah 31

31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to [d] them, [e] "
declares the LORD.

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people. NIV

See, the OLD covenant has passed, and we are in a NEW one, where the laws are written on our minds and hearts. That's the REAL deal. External rules were but a shadow.

I don't quite understand,, maybe,, okay. Are you saying that the Sabbaths were claimed to represent things to come, and those things have all come now and are done in the new covenant, so you would not keep a celebration for something to come, that has past already? Seriously, I wasn't quite getting what you were saying, or was I?

mik

 

[Scuba Pete]

In the old covenant, you tithed, you gave a single day to God and followed rules.

In the new covenant, everything you are, your riches, your time and your thoughts all belong to God.

It's a quantum leap on every level.

 

[mikmik]

In the old covenant, you tithed, you gave a single day to God and followed rules.

In the new covenant, everything you are, your riches, your time and your thoughts all belong to God.

It's a quantum leap on every level.

I don't know if you were responding to my last question or not. But if you were, you didn't answer it. I want to know about the shadow of things to come. What event(s) do the Sabbaths represent that has come and gone, so it is done and no longer needs the representation of the Sabbaths anymore?

mik

 

[Scuba Pete]

I answered your question. You just don't get it.

 

[mikmik]

I answered your question. You just don't get it.

I don't get what you are saying becuase it doesn't make sense. The Sabbaths are a shadow of what things to come? So they kept the days in the OT to honor what was to come. Now we don't have to keep the Sabbaths becuase why, the things have come and gone now? What things? I want to know becuse, gee, there it was again in the NT, in Colossians... so it appears that the Sabbaths are still a shadow of things to come, some pretty big things that are important to look forward to, to remember. And if not a single word of scripture will pass away until all is fulfilled, and there in Colossians more events yet to come are being talked about, then all is not fulfilled; we are told, till heaven and earth pass away (which they have not), one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Is all fulfilled? Do you know what the Sabbaths represent?

mik

 

[Scuba Pete]

I am sure that there are MANY things it was a mere shadow of: personal relationship with God, heaven, etc.

 

[AK4]

I don't know if you were responding to my last question or not. But if you were, you didn't answer it. I want to know about the shadow of things to come. What event(s) do the Sabbaths represent that has come and gone, so it is done and no longer needs the representation of the Sabbaths anymore?

mik

In a nut shell the sabbaths are a shadow of Gods plan for humanity.

For example the feast of firstfruits represents those who will rise in the first resurrection. The last feast (the name is alluding me right now) represents when God will save all of humanity. They are shadow of things to come.

Oh and not all has been done yet. We dont have to celebrate them anymore because it was all accomplished in Christ. The sabbath, the annual sabbaths, tithing, sacrifice, etc etc

 

[BrasenWall]

In a nut shell the sabbaths are a shadow of Gods plan for humanity.

Well, not if you let the bible interpret the bible.

COL.2 [14] BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; BUT THE BODY IS OF CHRIST.

The laws of the ordinances are the shadow of things to come

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first covenant had also ordinances of divine service which STOOD ONLY in sacrifice offerings (meats and drinks), and carnal ordinances such as circumcision which were abolished in Christ.

HEBREWS 10 [1] FOR THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

It was the law contained in the ordinances, which stood only in meat an drink offerings, which were the shadow of Christ. The sacrifices.

NUMBERS 28 [9] And ON THE SABBATH day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

In this scripture you can see the shadow of Christ. The meat and drink offerings of the sabbath. The sabbath was not the shadow of Christ. It was (according to the scriptures) the meat and drink offerings. The laws contained within the ordinances.

1 COR.5 [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even CHRIST OUR PASSOVER is sacrificed for us: [8] THEREFORE LET US KEEP THE FEAST, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

We are to still keep Gods feast days (Holydays) and His sabbaths as the new testament commands us to. Only now, Christ is our passover sacrifice for sin. No more burnt offerings. No more meat offerings. No more drink offerings. And even the laws of the feast of unleavened bread have been fulfilled in Christ.

 

[AK4]

Well, not if you let the bible interpret the bible.

COL.2 [14] BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; BUT THE BODY IS OF CHRIST.

The laws of the ordinances are the shadow of things to come

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first covenant had also ordinances of divine service which STOOD ONLY in sacrifice offerings (meats and drinks), and carnal ordinances such as circumcision which were abolished in Christ.

HEBREWS 10 [1] FOR THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

It was the law contained in the ordinances, which stood only in meat an drink offerings, which were the shadow of Christ. The sacrifices.

NUMBERS 28 [9] And ON THE SABBATH day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

In this scripture you can see the shadow of Christ. The meat and drink offerings of the sabbath. The sabbath was not the shadow of Christ. It was (according to the scriptures) the meat and drink offerings. The laws contained within the ordinances.

1 COR.5 [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even CHRIST OUR PASSOVER is sacrificed for us: [8] THEREFORE LET US KEEP THE FEAST, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

We are to still keep Gods feast days (Holydays) and His sabbaths as the new testament commands us to. Only now, Christ is our passover sacrifice for sin. No more burnt offerings. No more meat offerings. No more drink offerings. And even the laws of the feast of unleavened bread have been fulfilled in Christ.

I stated that wrong, they were a shadow of things to come, we dont have to celebrate them anymore because with Christ we see the it all accomplished, but not all of it has been fufilled yet like the fall harvest where all (mankind) will be gathered in.

 

[herushura]

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

The Word "IDOL" signifys dont make yourself a "God" or dont let people worship you like they worshiping god.

 

[AK4]

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

The Word "IDOL" signifys dont make yourself a "God" or dont let people worship you like they worshiping god.

AMEN. If only some would understand that the doctrine of free will does this them.

 

[BrasenWall]

It was quite a lengthy study and write up by Cardinal Gibbons. The Christian Sabbath (Catholic Mirror - Wikisource)

In the book the Faith of our Fathers which was also written by James cardinal Gibbons in 1876, You will find this quote. “But you may read the bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the “sanctification” of Sunday. The scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” And he should know what hes talkin about being one heart beat away from popedumbship. So did the catholics get it right by mistake. They were the 1st ones to change Gods day of rest from the sabbath to sunday. Did they not know that you can worship God in vain when you worship Him through the commandments of man? With the words of Gibbons in mind about which day is sanctified and by who, lets look at a few scriptures.

EZEKIEL 20 [12] Moreover also I GAVE THEM MY SABBATHS, TO BE A SIGN between me and them, that they might know THAT I AM THE LORD THAT SANCTIFY THEM.

The sabbath is a sign between God and his people that the “Lord does sanctify them”.

ISAIAH 66 [15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.[17] THEY THAT SANCTIFY THEMSELVES, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, SHALL BE CONSUMED together, saith the LORD.

I just love “Day of the Lord” scriptures. No one can claim that the scripture is for ancient Israel, because its yet to be fulfilled. It will be fulfilled when Jesus returns. Anyways, if THE SABBATH IS A SIGN THAT GOD SANCTIFYS YOU. Who are those that “sanctify themselves”? Pretty simple to figure out. This day will come to pass as it is written.

Just a little somethin extra to show how great the WORD is! There are only 2 places in the KJV where the words “moreover also” can be found

EZEK.20 [12] MOREOVER ALSO I gave them MY SABBATHS, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them

ACTS 2 [26] Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; MOREOVER ALSO MY FLESH SHALL REST in hope:

If you will notice in ACTS 2 the WORD says “my flesh shall rest in hope”. Just as GODS 4th commandment tells us to do. You will NOT find any scriptures that say you do not need to keep Gods sabbath day because you are NOW resting in Jesus. You will NOT find any scriptures that say Jesus is our sabbath rest. You will not find another day of rest that is "sanctified" by God

GENESIS 2 [1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. [3] And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, AND SANCTIFIED IT: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

 

[mikmik]

Colossians 2

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow....

Hypothetical here.. Your kid comes home from school upset. The other kids have been teasing him because he studies in class when the others are clowning. They call him the teacher's pet because he raises his hand when the teacher asks a question. They call him a nerd because he works hard and gets good grades. You tell your kid,, Don't you worry about the others. You do what you know is right. Your schooling, your grades, and your work habits that you learn now are your future. They all want to have fun and goof around instead of thinking of their own futures. They just don' t know any better. Don't follow their lead, hold fast to what you know is right. That is your future.

Did you just tell your kid that they don't have to do their work anymore, or worry about their grades anymore because it is only the future that is important? Did you just tell him that as long as he has the right goals set for his life, the works that he does or doesn't do right now are not important?

Then how do we take "16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.".. And get that message out of it? That is quite a mega-twist on the message, for any fleshly mind.

mik

 

[BrasenWall]

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect OF AN HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

exact order as Col.2

NUMBERS 28 [9] And ON THE SABBATH day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his DRINK OFFERING.

The meat and drink offerings for the sabbath days that Col.2 [16] was speaking of.

EZEKIEL 46 [6] And in the day of the NEW MOON it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish. [7] And he shall prepare a MEAT OFFERING, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.


LEVITICUS 23 [4] THESE ARE THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. [7] In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein......[13] And the MEAT OFFERING thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the DRINK OFFERING thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

 

[mikmik]

...Did you just tell your kid that they don't have to do their work anymore, or worry about their grades anymore because it is only the future that is important? Did you just tell him that as long as he has the right goals set for his life, the works that he does or doesn't do right now are not important?

And before I get a twisted answer out of that,, the answer is, ummm, NO!

Your future isn't handed to you on a silver platter just because you believe it will be,, and after all, you are a really nice loving person. You can get the gift of a scholarship, but that is hardly a free ride. Your actions, your grades, the work it takes to maintain your worthiness of that gift,, it must still be there, and it is work. You stop doing the work that is expected of you, the gift will be removed.

What we are given is a free gift, but not a free ride.

mik

 

[Heneni]

Hypothetical here.. Your kid comes home from school upset. The other kids have been teasing him because he studies in class when the others are clowning. They call him the teacher's pet because he raises his hand when the teacher asks a question. They call him a nerd because he works hard and gets good grades. You tell your kid,, Don't you worry about the others. You do what you know is right. Your schooling, your grades, and your work habits that you learn now are your future. They all want to have fun and goof around instead of thinking of their own futures. They just don' t know any better. Don't follow their lead, hold fast to what you know is right. That is your future.

Did you just tell your kid that they don't have to do their work anymore, or worry about their grades anymore because it is only the future that is important? Did you just tell him that as long as he has the right goals set for his life, the works that he does or doesn't do right now are not important?

Then how do we take "16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.".. And get that message out of it? That is quite a mega-twist on the message, for any fleshly mind.

mik

I understand where you are coming from, and I get your point. But in your hypothetical story, the kid raises his hand and wants to do his best everyday. So why must a christians only do their homework and put their hand up on sundays?

Could you explain to me, why you think observing the sabbath has any lasting spiritual significance. How will observing the sabbath mean you dont get a free ride?

 

[Scuba Pete]

That is quite a mega-twist on the message, for any fleshly mind.[/B]

I am sure you made a point here, but I simply can't divine what it might be. Can you rephrase it for me?

 

[mikmik]

I am sure you made a point here, but I simply can't divine what it might be. Can you rephrase it for me?

That sentence or the whole thing?

mik

 

[mikmik]

I understand where you are coming from, and I get your point. But in your hypothetical story, the kid raises his hand and wants to do his best everyday. So why must a christians only do their homework and put their hand up on sundays?

Could you explain to me, why you think observing the sabbath has any lasting spiritual significance. How will observing the sabbath mean you dont get a free ride?

Well, first of all, I wouldn't expect Christians to do anything on Sundays,, I am speaking of God's Sabbath, Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. Second, I wouldn't think that a person has to do nothing except for on the Sabbath. They should keep the 10 commandments, God's statutes and laws every day. But the Sabbath is a special day and should be treated that way. I love and think of and talk to my mom every day, but don't celebrate mother's day or her birthday everyday,, I do something extra extra special those days,, but I don't ignore her all the others. There is a ton I could say about the significance of it. But of course, today is the Sabbath. I am getting ready to go to service, and will get back to you later. Just didn't want you to think I was ignoring your question. If you go over to Are all 10 commandments binding on who?.. especially in my earlier posts, I touched on that alot. Oh, and I didn't mean that observing the sabbath is not a free ride. I mean that Jesus' gift,, the loving sacrifice if His blood to cover our sins and remove the death penalty for us.. Free gift, but not a free ride through life. God's grace, another loving and priceless free gift to us, but not a free ride through life. We still have to walk worthy of the calling. Just like the scholarship,, it is a free gift right from the start, but you have to do certain things to maintain your worthiness. You get the scholarship handed to you, but not the diploma,, you have to take the gift, which is a gift of great potentail, work with it, and collect the ultimate reward in the end.

mik