Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

[d.n.irvin]

Unfortunately for you, God is not the Bible -- the Bible is not God.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

To what or whom is the writer referring to as, "the Word"?
None of your quotes bolster your opinion that the Bible says that it interprets itself. If that were the case, why is there such a big to-do made of the Talmud?

Isaiah 20:18 For precept must be upon precept,... Line upon line,... Here a little, there a little

2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1 Corinthians 2:13
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

These text indicate that "scripture should be compared with scripture" a method of interpreting
I don't understand what you're getting at with the Matthew quotation. Jesus said "Don't imagine that I have come to annul the Law or the Prophets. I have come not to annul but to fulfill." Which was exactly my point. The Law didn't change. But it was fulfilled in Christ. No longer necessary for us to keep in order to define our righteousness.

Christ spoke these words Himself: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Let it read: Don't think I came to destroy(nullify)the law(10 Commandments) or the prophets(Old Testament): Again I came not to destroy(nullify) but to Fulfill(complete)
If his law did not change. Why Sunday worship?

No longer necessary for us to keep in order to define our righteousness.

Paul says,

.
Romans 3:23 For All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
Romans 3:20 By the law is the knowledge of sin
Romans 6:23 The wages of sin is death.
Romans 8:3, 4 God sending his own Son ... condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled(completed) in us.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law
Romans 13:10 Therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin (break God's law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God Forbid

 

[MOZedek]

Remember son -The earth was not created in seven (7) days- nor did the creation of heaven and earth begin the Sabbath- the Sabbath always existed even before the creation of this system of things

furthermore- if you think the Sabbath represented a day there too you are mistaken-

if you do not Keep the Sabbath a sabath youy will never see the face of the father
Christ

 

[McBell]

perhaps it would be helpful if it could be decided upon which day is the sabbath...

 

[d.n.irvin]

perhaps it would be helpful if it could be decided upon which day is the sabbath...

Exodus 16:29

1. See! For the LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”

Exodus 20:8
“ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.(4th Commandment)

Exodus 31:13
“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.

Leviticus 23:3
[ The Sabbath ] ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

According to the New Testament the Sabbath(7th day) is before the 1st day(Sunday) and After the "Preparation day" Friday

Matthew 28:1
[ He Is Risen ] Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

Mark 15:42
[ Jesus Buried in Joseph’s Tomb ] Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath,

 

[sojourner]

Unfortunately for you, God is not the Bible -- the Bible is not God.
Quote:
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
Quote:
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
To what or whom is the writer referring to as, "the Word"?
None of your quotes bolster your opinion that the Bible says that it interprets itself. If that were the case, why is there such a big to-do made of the Talmud?
Quote:
Isaiah 20:18 For precept must be upon precept,... Line upon line,... Here a little, there a little
Quote:
2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Quote:
1 Corinthians 2:13
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
These text indicate that "scripture should be compared with scripture" a method of interpreting
I don't understand what you're getting at with the Matthew quotation. Jesus said "Don't imagine that I have come to annul the Law or the Prophets. I have come not to annul but to fulfill." Which was exactly my point. The Law didn't change. But it was fulfilled in Christ. No longer necessary for us to keep in order to define our righteousness.

First of all logos is not synonymous with "scripture." It carries a different meaning altogether. Again, the Bible is not God -- God is not the Bible.

Secondly, taking scriptures out of context and proof-texting with them is not valid scholarship. The texts you mention indicate nothing of the sort.

Thridly, if Christ has already fulfilled the Law (not just the "10 commandments," but all the Law), then what is left for us to do? The Law does not save us. God's grace through Christ saves us.

We worship on Sunday, because it commemorates the Resurrection. We do it to celebrate -- not because we are commanded to do it. The impetus for the one is love. The impetus for the other is compulsion and fear of death. Which do you think God endorses?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We worship on Sunday, because it commemorates the Resurrection. We do it to celebrate -- not because we are commanded to do it. The impetus for the one is love. The impetus for the other is compulsion and fear of death. Which do you think God endorses?

Also, seeing how the Gospels describe Jesus saying that following him will set son against father, it could be assumed that the relationship to the entire Ten Commandments is changed, not just the one about the Sabbath.

 

[McBell]

Exodus 20:8
“ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.(4th Commandment)

According to the New Testament the Sabbath(7th day) is before the 1st day(Sunday) and After the "Preparation day" Friday

and like a bad marksman you managed to hit all around the point, yet still haven't been able to provide an answer.

Which day, using scripture, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, is the sabbath?

And just in case you have not yet caught on, saying "the seventh day" does not answer the question.

Many Christians claim the 'seventh' day is Saturday and many claim it is Sunday.
Yet neither have presented anything to state which day it is.
Perhaps YOU will be the first in over 2000 years to finally lay the matter to rest, by pointing out the scripture that says Saturday, or perhaps the scripture that says Sunday.

 

[d.n.irvin]

First of all logos is not synonymous with "scripture." It carries a different meaning altogether. Again, the Bible is not God -- God is not the Bible.

Secondly, taking scriptures out of context and proof-texting with them is not valid scholarship. The texts you mention indicate nothing of the sort.

**Thridly, if Christ has already fulfilled the Law (not just the "10 commandments," but all the Law), then what is left for us to do? The Law does not save us. God's grace through Christ saves us.

We worship on Sunday, because it commemorates the Resurrection.[WE have Baptism for that ]We do it to celebrate -- not because we are commanded to do it. The impetus for the one is love. The impetus for the other is compulsion and fear of death. Which do you think God endorses?

Make no mistake about it:

You worship on Sunday -because the papacy changed the Day. They claim responsibility for it. Bible prophecy points out they would do it.

WE OBEY- Gods commands - because we love him. not out of fear or works. "If you love me keep my commandments."

Romans 3:23 For All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

Romans 3:20 By the law is the knowledge of sin

Romans 6:23 The wages of sin is death.

**Romans 8:3, 4 God sending his own Son ... condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness(faith) of the law(10 commands) might be fulfilled(completed) in us.

**Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law(10 Commands) through faith(righteousness)? God forbid: yea, we establish the law(10 Commands)

**Romans 13:10 Therefore love is the fulfilling(completing) of the law(10 Commands).

**Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin (break God's law), because we are not under the law(10 Commands), but under grace? God Forbid

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make ... saith the Lord; I will put my laws(10 Commands) into their mind, and write them in their hearts.

then what is left for us to do?

Be Faithful

 

[d.n.irvin]

and like a bad marksman you managed to hit all around the point, yet still haven't been able to provide an answer.

Which day, using scripture, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, is the sabbath?

And just in case you have not yet caught on, saying "the seventh day" does not answer the question.

Many Christians claim the 'seventh' day is Saturday and many claim it is Sunday.
Yet neither have presented anything to state which day it is.
Perhaps YOU will be the first in over 2000 years to finally lay the matter to rest, by pointing out the scripture that says Saturday, or perhaps the scripture that says Sunday.

What calender do you use?

If your calender states that you live in the year 2007 -THE YEAR OF OUR LORD - that means your using the same calender or days of the weeks the JEWS used. We started counting time from Christ death until the present.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What calender do you use?

The one that was made by monks trying to figure out the date of Jesus' birth centuries after the fact by adding up the reigns of Roman Caesears, and got things kinda messed up in the process... IOW, the same calendar you use.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Also, seeing how the Gospels describe Jesus saying that following him will set son against father, it could be assumed that the relationship to the entire Ten Commandments is changed, not just the one about the Sabbath.

I did on another post- give me time to find, it and send it to you

 

[MaddLlama]

If your calender states that you live in the year 2007 -THE YEAR OF OUR LORD - that means your using the same calender or days of the weeks the JEWS used. We started counting time from Christ death until the present.

Umm....isn't it the year 5767 according to the Hebrew Calendar? According to the current Hebrew Calendar, today is the 24th of Av, 5767. [SIZE=-2]http://www.jewfaq.org/chodesh.htm#Mevarekhim[/SIZE]

Why would the Jews start counting the year from the death of Christ? They don't believe Christ was the messiah.

 

[McBell]

I don't understand I've made several post commenting on Moses Ceremonial Laws and Ordinances and Gods 10 Commandment Law.
How can you get around GOD writing the ten commandments - and then giving them to Moses? God only gave ten, no more, no less. The Bible gives no indication that God had any intention of ever changing them or doing away with them.

Think about it like this: Does a famous painter sign his or her portraits? Why? - It identifies who he is, it gives the painting authenticity.

Now , lets apply that same logic to the 4th Commandment.

Why would God do away with or change His signature? The Sabbath is Gods identifying mark, his seal. It identifies Him as the creator of the "Heavens and the Earth".


Satan knows this very well.

Yes, I agree.
You have gone to great lengths to ignore and sidetrack it to merely the ten commandments.
Seems to me that you have become quite adept at picking and choosing the OT laws that were not 'fulfilled' by Gods sacrifice.

What calender do you use?

What difference does it make?
No, really.
What difference does it make which calendar is used?
The ONLY thing you got is the seventh day.
You do not even have which day is the first.
Yet you go on and on about the sabbath, even though you have absolutely NOTHING to verify which day said sabbath is supposed to be.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Umm....isn't it the year 5767 according to the Hebrew Calendar? According to the current Hebrew Calendar, today is the 24th of Av, 5767.

Why would the Jews start counting the year from the death of Christ? They don't believe Christ was the messiah.

Wait, I said use the same calender( numbering system, 7 day week etc). ask the Romans why they adopted their system-

 

[sandy whitelinger]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Exodus 20: 8-11[/FONT]

The commandments were given to the Jewish people.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Yes, I agree.
You have gone to great lengths to ignore and sidetrack it to merely the ten commandments.
Seems to me that you have become quite adept at picking and choosing the OT laws that were not 'fulfilled' by Gods sacrifice.


What difference does it make?
No, really.
What difference does it make which calendar is used?
The ONLY thing you got is the seventh day.
You do not even have which day is the first.
Yet you go on and on about the sabbath, even though you have absolutely NOTHING to verify which day said sabbath is supposed to be.

Luke 23:54
That day was the Preparation, (6th day /Friday)and the Sabbath drew near

Mark 15:42
[ Jesus Buried in Joseph’s Tomb ] Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day,that is, the day before the Sabbath,

John 19:31
[ Jesus’ Side Is Pierced ] Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day),
.
Matthew 28:1
[ He Is Risen ] Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.


Have you ever thought about asking a Jew what day is the sabbath?

"Here is proof that Jesus died the day before the Sabbath. It was called "the preparation day" because it was the time to get ready for the Sabbath. Let us read the next verses: "And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment." Verses 55, 56.

Please notice that the women rested over the Sabbath "according to the commandment." The commandment says, "The seventh day is the Sabbath," so we know they were observing Saturday. But the very next verse says, "Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared. ... And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre." Luke 24:1, 2.

How clearly these three consecutive days are described for us. He died Friday, the preparation day, commonly called Good Friday. He rested in the tomb on the seventh day, Sabbath, "according to the commandment." That was Saturday. Then on Sunday, the first day of the week, Easter Sunday to many, Jesus arose from the grave.

Anyone who can locate Good Friday or Easter Sunday will have absolutely no difficulty finding the true Sabbath. Sabbathtruth.org/Sabbath Questions#4 pp2,3,4

 

[d.n.irvin]

"Which day did God bless and sanctify? The seventh day. How was it to be kept holy? By resting. Could any of the other six be kept holy? No. Why? Because God commanded not to rest those days but to work. Does God's blessing make a difference? Of course. This is why parents pray for God to bless their children. They believe it makes a difference. The seventh day is different from all the other six days, because it has God's blessing. ST.org"

In Conclusion:
According to the Bible.
The Only reason we worship on Sunday the 1st Day of the week is the Papacy.
They claim responsibility for it. The Bible gives us Prophecy they would do it.
Answering the question, "Why do Christians only keep 9 of the 10 Commandments?"

["Some more questions: Why did God bless the day? Because He had created the world in six days. It was the birthday of the world, a memorial of a mighty act. Can the Sabbath memorial be changed? Never. Because it points backward to an accomplished fact. July 4 is Independence Day. Can it be changed? No. Because the Declaration of Independence was signed on July 4, 1776. Your birthday cannot be changed, either. It is a memorial of your birth, which happened on a set day. History would have to run through again to change your birthday, to change Independence Day, or to change the Sabbath day. We can call another day Independence Day, and we can call another day the Sabbath, but that does not make it so." ST.org/QUOTE]



~Truth Can Withstand Investigation

 

[McBell]

Luke 23:54
That day was the Preparation, (6th day /Friday)and the Sabbath drew near

Mark 15:42
[ Jesus Buried in Joseph’s Tomb ] Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day,that is, the day before the Sabbath,

John 19:31
[ Jesus’ Side Is Pierced ] Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day),
.
Matthew 28:1
[ He Is Risen ] Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.


Have you ever thought about asking a Jew what day is the sabbath?

Perhaps you are using the Irvining Ratification Bible?

Luk 23:54
And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
​

Which of the manuscripts has the word "Friday" in this verse?

Since all your others verses are reliant upon your personal addition to this one...

"Which day did God bless and sanctify? The seventh day. How was it to be kept holy? By resting. Could any of the other six be kept holy? No. Why? Because God commanded not to rest those days but to work. Does God's blessing make a difference? Of course. This is why parents pray for God to bless their children. They believe it makes a difference. The seventh day is different from all the other six days, because it has God's blessing."
​

And yet, once again, we are right back to square one.
Other than you adding what you want to the Holy Scriptures, you have nothing from the Holy Scriptures that conclusively points to Saturday as the "sabbath."
In fact, you have nothing from scripture, other than what you add, to show that Tuesday is not the sabbath.

Have you ever thought about asking a Jew what day is the sabbath?

Why?
Do the Jews have scripture that state something other than "the seventh day" as the sabbath?
I suppose not.
For if the Jews did, one would think you would have already presented it.

 

[d.n.irvin]

The commandments were given to the Jewish people.

But God made the Sabbath at Creation- before the Jews

And the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath Mark 2:27

 

[rstrats]

joeboonda,

re: "Believers were told to meet on the first day of the week and give offerings."

I’m not aware of any scripture that says that. What do you have in mind?


re: "This is referred to many times as the Lord's day."

Nor am I aware of any scripture that calls the first day of the week the "Lord’s day".


re: " This is also the day of the resurrection..."

I am not aware of any incontrovertible scripture that says that the resurrection took place on the first day of the week. What do you have in mind?