• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why Have You Left Your Church?

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
This is ismply not true.

A devout Catholic would never leave the Church if he/she is devout. Mass in central to the faith.

You can't be devout and still leave. You first have to lose that devoutness,wether knowledable or not. Only reason a knowledgeable Catholic would leave, if he does not want to live by the rules the church gives. Such as divorce or ban against prematriatal sex. Though usually these people become cafeteria catholics.

Cafeteria Catholics don't count/
The Catholic Church says they count. :p

If a person has been baptized, confirmed and never excommunicated, who are you to say they "don't count"?

I think it would be possible for a devout Catholic to be led away from the Church because of their devotion. IMO, anyone who believes strongly enough that "God is love" and who thinks about it long enough will eventually have to figure out some way to get past some of the decidedly unloving doctrines of the Church. One way to get past them is to leave.

Edit: but I think I should leave it at that for this thread. If you want to start a thread in one of the debate forums, we could talk about this further there.
 
Last edited:

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
This is absolutely not true.

I pretty much guarantee that when you see what was a devout and knowledgeable Catholic
leave the RC church
(and then christianity altogether)
you will not know what to make of it,
and you will make no true effort to understand why.

In all likelyhood you will simply avoid them.

I say this from personal experience.

Interesting perspective. I can't relate from experience however you're most likely correct.
 
The only Catholics that leave His Church are those that never really knew their Christian Faith

The falsity of this statement is almost repugnant... I was raised a Catholic and have left it not because of misunderstanding, and I bet I can speak for many when I say that... Besides, I'm sure God wouldn't care what way you seek for the right path... IMHO, I feel any just god's true task for his/her creations is to seek out that which he/her has taught mankind... The methodology of how you find these truths matters not, so long as you find them... Just as using the Pythagorean Theorem over a ruler in measuring a triangle... You will get the same answer, but in a different way...
 

blackout

Violet.
This is ismply not true.

A devout Catholic would never leave the Church if he/she is devout. Mass in central to the faith.

You can't be devout and still leave. You first have to lose that devoutness,wether knowledable or not. Only reason a knowledgeable Catholic would leave, if he does not want to live by the rules the church gives. Such as divorce or ban against prematriatal sex. Though usually these people become cafeteria catholics.

Cafeteria Catholics don't count/

In my case it was not a matter of losing my devoutness.
It was a matter of my realization
after 8 years
that the RC was not a protector of truth.

Suddenly I had nowhere to turn for truth,
but direct communion/communication with God.

Once I started turning within for truth,
instead of looking "without"
(to teaching authority and all that)
my whole world opened up
and I experienced what I can only call an epiphany,
which led to an entire paradigm shift.

I was NOT a cafeteria catholic,
I was not in personal need of something the chruch forbade.
I left for reasons of truth and integrity.

Other devout catholics just cannot understand this.
So they pretend like it can't happen.

What can I say.
It happened to me.
 

Falcon

Member
Heathen. is that the best you can do, nothing but insults. People like you dragged Jesus through the mud back then, now people as you drag His Church through the mud. Jesus never said His Church would be made up of perfect people, only that its Doctrine/ Teachings would be perfect and protected by Jesus Himself. Ignorance coming from people is to be expected because Jesus talked about it. Just reinforces my belief in Christ's One Holy and Apostolic Church . Thank you Heathen.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Heathen. is that the best you can do, nothing but insults. People like you dragged Jesus through the mud back then, now people as you drag His Church through the mud. Jesus never said His Church would be made up of perfect people, only that its Doctrine/ Teachings would be perfect and protected by Jesus Himself. Ignorance coming from people is to be expected because Jesus talked about it. Just reinforces my belief in Christ's One Holy and Apostolic Church . Thank you Heathen.
I believe Jesus also said, when asked to tell true preachers from false ones, that a good tree cannot bear bad fruit. Is systemic rape and molestation of children a good fruit or a bad fruit?
 

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
I believe Jesus also said, when asked to tell true preachers from false ones, that a good tree cannot bear bad fruit. Is systemic rape and molestation of children a good fruit or a bad fruit?
You say that as if every single clergy has done such wrongs.

Fact is, the public school teachers are worse, and the protestants are no better.
 

Falcon

Member
Bad fruit, but this grevious sin isn't limited to Christ's Church alone.Jesus said His Church will be made up of "good and bad" members, if you're church or atheist group is made up of all sinless perfect members then we surely can say that your group isn't connected to anything formed by our Lord and Savior Jesus.
 
Bad fruit, but this grevious sin isn't limited to Christ's Church alone.Jesus said His Church will be made up of "good and bad" members, if you're church or atheist group is made up of all sinless perfect members then we surely can say that your group isn't connected to anything formed by our Lord and Savior Jesus.

I don't think I'm going to even try and decipher this illogical statement here...
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
You say that as if every single clergy has done such wrongs.
Not all, but I do think that we've only scratched the surface of the problem.

For every pedophile priest whose been brought to light, there are many more who are still hidden.

For every pedophile priest, there are several other priests who had reason to suspect but did nothing.

And the Church has done virtually nothing about the second crime: the first crime was the abuse itself. The second was the cover-up of the abuse; that's where the Catholic Church is unique, and that's where I think its downfall will be in all of this.

The only case I know that matches the Catholic sex abuse scandal is Pitcairn Island: while it's much smaller in scale, it's similar in terms of pervasiveness of the scandal. And that didn't work out well for the people who had a hand in the abuse or the cover-ups.

Fact is, the public school teachers are worse, and the protestants are no better.
I'm not so sure of that, but I do agree that no field of work is immune to evil people. However, most fields of work don't come with institutional hierarchies that try to protect the reputation of the institution at the expense of the victims of those evil people.

Bad fruit, but this grevious sin isn't limited to Christ's Church alone.
So... you agree it's the product of a bad tree. The fact that there are other bad trees doesn't change this.

Jesus said His Church will be made up of "good and bad" members,
He did? When? Is "good and bad" a direct quote?

if you're church or atheist group is made up of all sinless perfect members then we surely can say that your group isn't connected to anything formed by our Lord and Savior Jesus.
If I learned that the leadership of a group I belonged to had protected and enabled child rapists, unless the group threw those leaders out on their ear (or, even better, into the hands of the police), I would leave it immediately.
 

On_a_Quest

Member
You say that as if every single clergy has done such wrongs.

Fact is, the public school teachers are worse, and the protestants are no better.

Agreed. In all the years that I've been with the Church, I have never personally encountered anyone who has had any problem with members of the clergy. I've met a number of priests in my life and none of them seemed to be sketchy or anything to me. It only seems like there are a lot of corrupt priests because the media always blows it up. If something's all over the news, of course it's going to seem like it's happening everywhere. In reality, it's a small percentage of priests. I'm very sorry for that, but that is not my issue with the Catholic Church.

I really don't have any issue with the Church. True, it is often intolerant of other religions, but other religions can be intolerant as well. I am happy to say that in my town, the three Catholic Churches that we have enthusiastically participate in the Interfaith Service that we have in my town each year. There is little to no intolerance when you get out of the hierarchy and down to the level of real people. Maybe that's because of where I live.

It's just that the Church doesn't have enough to offer me and when I get right down too it, there isn't a whole lot of solid reasoning for their teachings. That's why I'm learning about other religions as well as continuing to investigate Catholicism and Christianity. It's not a direct problem with the Church, it's an indirect kind of thing.
 

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
Agreed. In all the years that I've been with the Church, I have never personally encountered anyone who has had any problem with members of the clergy. I've met a number of priests in my life and none of them seemed to be sketchy or anything to me. It only seems like there are a lot of corrupt priests because the media always blows it up. If something's all over the news, of course it's going to seem like it's happening everywhere. In reality, it's a small percentage of priests. I'm very sorry for that, but that is not my issue with the Catholic Church.

I really don't have any issue with the Church. True, it is often intolerant of other religions, but other religions can be intolerant as well. I am happy to say that in my town, the three Catholic Churches that we have enthusiastically participate in the Interfaith Service that we have in my town each year. There is little to no intolerance when you get out of the hierarchy and down to the level of real people. Maybe that's because of where I live.

It's just that the Church doesn't have enough to offer me and when I get right down too it, there isn't a whole lot of solid reasoning for their teachings. That's why I'm learning about other religions as well as continuing to investigate Catholicism and Christianity. It's not a direct problem with the Church, it's an indirect kind of thing.
I am glad to hear the catholic parishes in your town partake in interfaith dialogue. IN fact, our last pope, Blessed Pope John Paul II was very up to interfaith dialogue. He was the first Pope to set foot in a Mosque and a Synagogue. He was a great man, which is why you can look at my sig and see a qoute by him. Probably be another qwoute by him in a week or two lol.

But even the Church teachings are tolerant towards other faiths, especially Judaism and Islam.

On the bolded though, may I ask, what is it you are not finding?
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Heathen. is that the best you can do, nothing but insults.

Not insults. Observations.

People like you dragged Jesus through the mud back then,
I have nothing against Jesus, but you fundamentalists are so unlike Jesus.

now people as you drag His Church through the mud.
The church is worthy of neither respect nor reverence. It's a corrupt, outmoded institution which serves no useful or necessary function, and has only served to impede progress, liberty and equality.

Jesus never said His Church would be made up of perfect people,
Why would Jesus choose some of the worst examples of humanity to represent him? Why would he allow the victimization of innocent children to happen with impunity beneath the roof of his own house? Why would it be necessary to have self-appointed middlemen and interpreters who presume to speak on his behalf? It wouldn't.

only that its Doctrine/ Teachings would be perfect and protected by Jesus Himself.
To suggest that the ancient superstitions of primitive savages is the word and will of god is actually an insult to god. Your religion makes a mockery of god, your perception and portrayal of "him" is but a cartoon caricature. Your church created a god in it's own image, and uses it as a sock puppet to manipulate and exploit the faithful. Quite shameful.
Ignorance coming from people is to be expected because Jesus talked about it.
The survival of your church depends upon the ignorance of its adherents.
Just reinforces my belief in Christ's One Holy and Apostolic Church . Thank you Heathen.
Might you have valued my insight a little more had I worn a silly hat?
 

On_a_Quest

Member
On the bolded though, may I ask, what is it you are not finding?

Honestly, I'm not sure. I can't put my finger on it. I feel like I'm looking for something that I haven't found in the Church. That's why I'm doing so much reading and studying on my own. I'm trying to learn more about my religion and learn more about other religions to see if I can find what I'm looking for. It's just a feeling I have.
 

On_a_Quest

Member
Not insults. Observations.

I have nothing against Jesus, but you fundamentalists are so unlike Jesus.

The church is worthy of neither respect nor reverence. It's a corrupt, outmoded institution which serves no useful or necessary function, and has only served to impede progress, liberty and equality.

Why would Jesus choose some of the worst examples of humanity to represent him? Why would he allow the victimization of innocent children to happen with impunity beneath the roof of his own house? Why would it be necessary to have self-appointed middlemen and interpreters who presume to speak on his behalf? It wouldn't.

To suggest that the ancient superstitions of primitive savages is the word and will of god is actually an insult to god. Your religion makes a mockery of god, your perception and portrayal of "him" is but a cartoon caricature. Your church created a god in it's own image, and uses it as a sock puppet to manipulate and exploit the faithful. Quite shameful.
The survival of your church depends upon the ignorance of its adherents. Might you have valued my insight a little more had I worn a silly hat?

Harsh words. They're not necessary.
 

blackout

Violet.
Interesting perspective. I can't relate from experience however you're most likely correct.

Let's sit back and see if any of the nay'sayers
respond to post #44.

And if they do, how they will now attempt to explain it away.
(instead of being genuinely curious/wanting to actually understand)
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
My synagogue is very cliquey and mainly consist of elderly people (60+ y/o); so I find it very hard to relate to the other members of my congregation. Also, our rabbi does little to invigorate or involve the youth. It just ends up being very boring.
 
Top