Why I’m not atheist or agnostic.

[Audie]

I agree, but I generally drop the 'normal' part, and often forget to be sensible.

I am.pretty sure I am not normal, if normal
is some sort of average.
But I mean normal as in, the afflicted are not
normal. Theys afflicted.

As for sensible or not I think it's profoundly
insensible to be go off on some spiritual journey.

 

[rational experiences]

In humans experience only. I know my brother was so afraid of God. After continued brain burn prickled attacks he outlawed earth science. Even Alchemy.

Isn't psychic at all. He said no Alchemy science beginnings for men. Then still hurt and life sacrificed said and no healing potents allowed either youre still doing evil. He was that scared.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I humbly suggest that you are either romanticizing intuition or abusing the term "profound."

Is romanticising the same as valuing? Intuition is seen as an important tool, by those willing to learn and develop it’s utility.

Does not reason and intellect lead us astray just as often as intuition? After all, it’s possible to rationalise pretty much any of our actions.

 

[Audie]

Is romanticising the same as valuing? Intuition is seen as an important tool, by those willing to learn and develop it’s utility.

Does not reason and intellect lead us astray just as often as intuition? After all, it’s possible to rationalise pretty much any of our actions.

If you think using reason and intellect is rationalizing
it's no wonder you are mixed up.

 

[RestlessSoul]

If you think using reason and intellect is rationalizing
it's no wonder you are mixed up.

Rationalisation is one way in which reason can be misused. Plenty of mixed up intellectuals are evidence that reason has it's limits, as a tool for navigating the world.

 

[Audie]

Rationalisation is one way in which reason can be misused. Plenty of mixed up intellectuals are evidence that reason has it's limits, as a tool for navigating the world.

It's actually the opposite.
Starting with a conclusion isn't intelligent
nor reasonable.
It is 100 % backwards to any science.

It's just doing intuition / emotion to make a choice, the trying to justify it by excluding all
contrary thoughts.

Reason has limits, as does the sense of smell.

It is what it is and ain't what it ain't.

Rationizing is opposite to reasoning.

 

[Audie]

Rationalisation is one way in which reason can be misused. Plenty of mixed up intellectuals are evidence that reason has it's limits, as a tool for navigating the world.

See above.

 

[Dogknox20]

Nice to meet you.

Well, given that I'm an atheist, we're probably going to have to agree to disagree on the points you made in your post.

icehorse If there is an "Evil" in the world then there is also a "Good"!

Your words... My second thought is that it's hard for me to square the idea of a designer who would be so friggin' cruel.

My point is..... You have accused the wrong "Power" for the "Cruel".. You have not considered an "Evil" causing the "Cruel"! Who said it was God/Good that is the "Cruel"! DON'T....

icehorse don't you think if there is evil then the evil would want you to accuse God/Good for your troubles! The Evil would want you to point at the Designer and accuse the Designer! YOUR...

icehorse your only other alternative is thinking the Designer that created all of us and the good you see is in fact "Evil"! LOGIC SAYS....This evil that hates us would never create us!

 

[RestlessSoul]

It's actually the opposite.
Starting with a conclusion isn't intelligent
nor reasonable.
It is 100 % backwards to any science.

It's just doing intuition / emotion to make a choice, the trying to justify it by excluding all
contrary thoughts.

Reason has limits, as does the sense of smell.

It is what it is and ain't what it ain't.

Rationizing is opposite to reasoning.

Hardly the opposite. You may of course believe that reason somehow exempts you from self- deception, but to paraphrase Christine Keeler, You would say that, wouldn’t you

 

[icehorse]

icehorse If there is an "Evil" in the world then there is also a "Good"!

Would you agree as a baseline that "good" and "evil" must be measured in terms of the well being of conscious creatures?

If so, then we can say things like drinking water is "good" for most animals, and drinking sulfuric acid is "bad" for most animals. So far so good?

 

[Audie]

Hardly the opposite. You may of course believe that reason somehow exempts you from self- deception, but to paraphrase Christine Keeler, You would say that, wouldn’t you

View attachment 65306

You resort to making up ways to belittle
me says it all, even if you hadnt already sunk your losing "argument".

 

[Dogknox20]

Would you agree as a baseline that "good" and "evil" must be measured in terms of the well being of conscious creatures?

If so, then we can say things like drinking water is "good" for most animals, and drinking sulfuric acid is "bad" for most animals. So far so good?

icehorse hello....
Yes to measure "Good" we need a base line thus we have Evil! Good is positive increases (Plus +) Evil is negative Decreases (Subtracts - )
You can ALWAYS add to the Plus FOREVER; no end!
You can only take away Subtract so far then it is no more... Negative is finite! Thus logic says: Evil is Finite & Good is always: forever!

 

[icehorse]

icehorse hello....
Yes to measure "Good" we need a base line thus we have Evil! Good is positive increases (Plus +) Evil is negative Decreases (Subtracts - )
You can ALWAYS add to the Plus FOREVER; no end!
You can only take away Subtract so far then it is no more... Negative is finite! Thus logic says: Evil is Finite & Good is always: forever!

Okay, so are you agreeing that "good" and "evil" (or "bad"), have only to do with the well being of conscious creatures? In other words, we can't really talk about good and evil when it comes to how we treat rocks and stones, correct?

 

[Audie]

icehorse hello....
Yes to measure "Good" we need a base line thus we have Evil! Good is positive increases (Plus +) Evil is negative Decreases (Subtracts - )
You can ALWAYS add to the Plus FOREVER; no end!
You can only take away Subtract so far then it is no more... Negative is finite! Thus logic says: Evil is Finite & Good is always: forever!

Like the US budget deficient, right?

 

[Ella S.]

I feel like the universe is "ordered" because the natural forces appear to follow their own physical laws. My gut tells me that I'm "a part" of the massive, interconnected system of the universe, and an inevitable consequence of the deterministic laws governing nature. It feels like we were all "meant" to be here and do whatever it is that we decide to do.

I also feel like it's a bit silly to attribute an intelligence to the natural forces, although I can understand personifying them. It's hard not to, because we're social creatures and that's how we evolved to relate to the world. I think personification can make beautifully moving poetry, inspire deeply creative and groundbreaking hypotheses, and even give someone the spiritual sense of a personal relationship with the universe itself.

I often feel connected to the universe, even in a personal way. I used to call that God, but that word feels too small and anthropocentric to me now. I'm more likely to call it nature or fate now, although the "God" word will slip in from time to time even though it's not theism and more like sexed-up atheism.

 

[Dogknox20]

Okay, so are you agreeing that "good" and "evil" (or "bad"), have only to do with the well being of conscious creatures? In other words, we can't really talk about good and evil when it comes to how we treat rocks and stones, correct?

.
icehorse yes... Man can reason, we can see the Bad thus there is a Good or vice a versa! A chicken eats grain over carrots because it is their nature. Only Man has a God/gods always have had a god of some kind right from the Caveman! The North American Indian believed in a "Great White Spirit" simply because man can reason!

 

[Dogknox20]

I feel like the universe is "ordered" because the natural forces appear to follow their own physical laws. My gut tells me that I'm "a part" of the massive, interconnected system of the universe, and an inevitable consequence of the deterministic laws governing nature. It feels like we were all "meant" to be here and do whatever it is that we decide to do.

I also feel like it's a bit silly to attribute an intelligence to the natural forces, although I can understand personifying them. It's hard not to, because we're social creatures and that's how we evolved to relate to the world. I think personification can make beautifully moving poetry, inspire deeply creative and groundbreaking hypotheses, and even give someone the spiritual sense of a personal relationship with the universe itself.

I often feel connected to the universe, even in a personal way. I used to call that God, but that word feels too small and anthropocentric to me now. I'm more likely to call it nature or fate now, although the "God" word will slip in from time to time even though it's not theism and more like sexed-up atheism.

Ella S personification is the wrong word, the word is LOGIC! It's logic that tells you there is a greater; a designer!

 

[Dogknox20]

Like the US budget deficient, right?

Audie I would say it is more like Good & Bad!

We can see the Bad thus we know there is Good!

A chicken sees in the moment not considering any different!

 

[icehorse]

.
icehorse yes... Man can reason, we can see the Bad thus there is a Good or vice a versa! A chicken eats grain over carrots because it is their nature. Only Man has a God/gods always have had a god of some kind right from the Caveman! The North American Indian believed in a "Great White Spirit" simply because man can reason!

Once more (with jazz hands):

Do you agree that discussions of "good" or "bad" or "evil" are all based on the well being (or lack of well being) of conscious creatures?

 

[Dogknox20]

Once more (with jazz hands):

Do you agree that discussions of "good" or "bad" or "evil" are all based on the well being (or lack of well being) of conscious creatures?

Yes I agree.... BUT not everyone has a sound "Conscious"! Thus we end up with varied opinion on what is good or bad! Still Good exists and also bad!

icehorse There is only "ONE TRUTH"! 2+2=4