Why I’m not atheist or agnostic.

[Aupmanyav]

Only Man has a God/gods always have had a god of some kind right from the Caveman! The North American Indian believed in a "Great White Spirit" simply because man can reason!

There is something known as 'wrong reasoning'.

 

[icehorse]

Yes I agree.... BUT not everyone has a sound "Conscious"! Thus we end up with varied opinion on what is good or bad! Still Good exists and also bad!

icehorse There is only "ONE TRUTH"! 2+2=4

So... how do YOU know what's good and what's bad? Because of what your god says? If so, how do you know what's good and what's bad when your god had nothing to say on the topic?

 

[Dogknox20]

There is something known as 'wrong reasoning'.

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Aupmanyav Hello, I hope all is well...

I agree the word WRONG fits all errors!
Good/Right reasoning!
Wrong/Bad reasoning!

Fact remains.. Man has always believed in a god of some kind! Man has rightly reasoned there must be a higher power!

Question: For one... Have you ever heard of "Near death experience"? What if man has always had these experiences; Meeting dead relatives, meeting God etc!?
Or meeting the evil one (There are people that claim to have)? DON'T...

Aupmanyav don't you think these near death experience would encourage belief in a god! Could it be one reason why archeologist find items for the next life buried with the dead!?
Could these near death experiences be why Egypt spent so much to care for their dead in the next life!? YOU...

Aupmanyav you can't say no it was not a reason because there are thousands of people today never mind the people of the past who have claimed to have had near death experiences!

 

[Dogknox20]

So... how do YOU know what's good and what's bad? Because of what your god says? If so, how do you know what's good and what's bad when your god had nothing to say on the topic?

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icehorse I hope all is well...

Man has always believed in a god!
How do YOU know what's good and what's bad? For me I have the scriptures (the word of my God) and the early Christians that point to Good and warn me about the Bad! I have those people around me and I have my feelings.

Have you ever heard of "The golden rule" (It's in the scriptures): Treat others as you would want them to treat you?!

 

[Aupmanyav]

Fact remains.. Man has always believed in a god of some kind! Man has rightly reasoned there must be a higher power!
Question: For one... Have you ever heard of "Near death experience"? What if man has always had these experiences; Meeting dead relatives, meeting God etc!?

Aupmanyav don't you think these near death experience would encourage belief in a god! Could it be one reason why archeologist find items for the next life buried with the dead!?
Could these near death experiences be why Egypt spent so much to care for their dead in the next life!? YOU...

Aupmanyav you can't say no it was not a reason because there are thousands of people today never mind the people of the past who have claimed to have had near death experiences!

Men have also rejected existence of God since around 3,000 years.
Have you heard of delusions? They occur all the time. While living or near death times.
It could, among ignorant people.
It does not mean that all that humans were doing in stone age was correct.
Near death experiences are to individuals. There is no solid evidence for what is claimed about existence of God (or Devil).

 

[LuisDantas]

I have a hunch that there is a higher power(s), what we humans call god(s). Relying on my intuition here.
Life is too trippy for there not to be a god I think. Everything works perfectly, the universe is ordered.

I don't think the facts support such a conclusion. Or maybe I should point out instead that what order exists is largely accidental. Chaos often begets order to a certain extent.

The potential of our brains and the thoughts it can produce is too amazing (for me) to not be intelligently designed or divine in nature.

Your privilege, but it looks like an esthetical preference to me.

Do you follow your gut when it comes to belief in god? What does it tell you?

I guess I do. It tells me that there is no point in considering such a belief; gods are not meant to be believed in, but rather as inspiration and/or language tools.

 

[LuisDantas]

Perhaps I'm just trying to convince myself not to become an atheist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Being an atheist is no more and no less than having a certain aesthetical inclination.

It is not something to be afraid of.

 

[Audie]

I don't think the facts support such a conclusion. Or maybe I should point out instead that what order exists is largely accidental. Chaos often begets order to a certain extent.



Your privilege, but it looks like an esthetical preference to me.



I guess I do. It tells me that there is no point in considering such a belief; gods are not meant to be believed in, but rather as inspiration and/or language tools.

Order emerging from chaos is routine
and continuous. Stars condensing fro
gaseous clouds, heavy
elents distributed by nova,
planets forming from debris.

Crystals growing, all the formations
from moving water that fell as rain.

A basic principle being that the flow
of energy through matter tends to
organize it.

 

[Dogknox20]

Men have also rejected existence of God since around 3,000 years.
Have you heard of delusions? They occur all the time. While living or near death times.
It could, among ignorant people.
It does not mean that all that humans were doing in stone age was correct.
Near death experiences are to individuals. There is no solid evidence for what is claimed about existence of God (or Devil).

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Aupmanyav You are funny...Near death experiences are to individuals.

I reply.. YES ... Near death experiences are not produced in groups of people! They happen when a Individual person is "Near Death"!
You cannot deny them because thousands of people have experienced them! Some are even a bad experience seeing evil!

I reply: To This... There is no solid evidence for what is claimed about existence of God (or Devil).
Today Billions of people "CLAIM" there is a god! Never mind the Billions of people that came before us all the way back to the cave man!
Question... Have you considered those people that have experienced Near Death as an evidence!?

Aupmanyav Question... Have you considered "Miracles!"? Can't say Miracles have never happened!
..................................................................
Definition of miracle
1: an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs the healing miracles described in the Gospels
2: an extremely outstanding or unusual event, thing, or accomplishment The bridge is a miracle of engineering.
3 Christian Science : a divinely natural phenomenon experienced humanly as the fulfillment of spiritual law..
..........................................................................

 

[icehorse]

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icehorse I hope all is well...

Man has always believed in a god!
How do YOU know what's good and what's bad? For me I have the scriptures (the word of my God) and the early Christians that point to Good and warn me about the Bad! I have those people around me and I have my feelings.

Have you ever heard of "The golden rule" (It's in the scriptures): Treat others as you would want them to treat you?!

I'm more or less a secular humanist and a utilitarian. So broadly, I think that what's "good" is what makes the lives of conscious creatures better, and what's "bad" is what makes their lives worse. So, for example, I think the factory farming of pigs is "bad" because it makes their lives horrible.

As for the golden rule, I think this is a great example of the people who wrote scripture, taking someone else's idea and trying to make it sound as if it came from their version of god.

So I'll ask you again, when you encounter a situation that's not covered by your scripture, how do YOU know how to act in a good way?

 

[Dogknox20]

I'm more or less a secular humanist and a utilitarian. So broadly, I think that what's "good" is what makes the lives of conscious creatures better, and what's "bad" is what makes their lives worse. So, for example, I think the factory farming of pigs is "bad" because it makes their lives horrible.

As for the golden rule, I think this is a great example of the people who wrote scripture, taking someone else's idea and trying to make it sound as if it came from their version of god.

So I'll ask you again, when you encounter a situation that's not covered by your scripture, how do YOU know how to act in a good way?

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icehorse People will follow their Conscience! But the Fact remains.. Not all Conscience is good some people have corrupted Conscience!

Scriptures are a good source because they tell what happens when bad decisions are made!

Your words... As for the golden rule, I think this is a great example of the people who wrote scripture, taking someone else's idea and trying to make it sound as if it came from their version of god.

All situations are covered by scriptures; the golden rule is in scriptures! You reject the scriptures because they offer sound teaching?!
Man does NOT live in a box, not on a deserted Island; We are social creatures treating others fairly is a human trait!

 

[icehorse]

icehorse People will follow their Conscience! But the Fact remains.. Not all Conscience is good some people have corrupted Conscience!

You've brought this idea up several times. Of course we all know this is true. How is it relevant to this conversation?

All situations are covered by scriptures

What do your scriptures have to say about stem cell research?

the golden rule is in scriptures!

I sometimes feel as though you're not really reading my posts. I've already acknowledged that the golden rule is in many scriptures. But my claim is that it didn't ORIGINATE with the scripture.

You reject the scriptures because they offer sound teaching?!

Do you know what a strawman argument is? It's when you put words in the other person's mouth. Don't do that.

We are social creatures treating others fairly is a human trait!

While I mostly agree with this statement, it seems to be in conflict with your thoughts about scripture. So what do you believe? Do our ideas of fairness come from scripture or are they "human traits"? (BTW, many animals demonstrate a sense of fairness as well.)

 

[syo]

Do you follow your gut when it comes to belief in god?

My husband.

 

[Dogknox20]

You've brought this idea up several times. Of course we all know this is true. How is it relevant to this conversation?



What do your scriptures have to say about stem cell research?



I sometimes feel as though you're not really reading my posts. I've already acknowledged that the golden rule is in many scriptures. But my claim is that it didn't ORIGINATE with the scripture.



Do you know what a strawman argument is? It's when you put words in the other person's mouth. Don't do that.



While I mostly agree with this statement, it seems to be in conflict with your thoughts about scripture. So what do you believe? Do our ideas of fairness come from scripture or are they "human traits"? (BTW, many animals demonstrate a sense of fairness as well.)

.
What do your scriptures have to say about stem cell research?

I reply... The scriptures are not a book of science the scriptures are a Love letter from God to us! IF....

icehorse if you follow your heart then your life will not be a waste! To kill a baby to get "Stem Cells" is not morally right! It is NOT a loving act!

Your words.. But my claim is that it didn't ORIGINATE (Golden rule) with the scripture.

I reply: So what!? It is good to follow this rule. I have to ask... Just where did it originate?!

No straw men.... These are your words... .I think that what's "good" is what makes the lives of conscious creatures better, and what's "bad" is what makes their lives worse. So, for example, I think the factory farming of pigs is "bad" because it makes their lives horrible.

I reply: This is "YOUR" conscience! It's what YOU think! .... But who are you?! Bad for the pigs.. Good for men! You are on the side of the pigs! Again... But who are you to make this decision!
Who is on the side of men!?

 

[Ella S.]

Ella S personification is the wrong word, the word is LOGIC! It's logic that tells you there is a greater; a designer!

As someone who has formally studied logic, and holds certifications in the field, I assure you that it is not logic.

 

[Aupmanyav]

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Aupmanyav You are funny...Near death experiences are to individuals.

I reply.. YES ... Near death experiences are not produced in groups of people! They happen when a Individual person is "Near Death"!
You cannot deny them because thousands of people have experienced them! Some are even a bad experience seeing evil!

I reply: To This... There is no solid evidence for what is claimed about existence of God (or Devil).
Today Billions of people "CLAIM" there is a god! Never mind the Billions of people that came before us all the way back to the cave man!
Question... Have you considered those people that have experienced Near Death as an evidence!?

Aupmanyav Question... Have you considered "Miracles!"? Can't say Miracles have never happened!
..................................................................
Definition of miracle
1: an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs the healing miracles described in the Gospels
2: an extremely outstanding or unusual event, thing, or accomplishment The bridge is a miracle of engineering.
3 Christian Science : a divinely natural phenomenon experienced humanly as the fulfillment of spiritual law..
..........................................................................

I have considered near-death experiences in detail. It is because of accumulation of carbon-DI-oxide and Carbon monooxide in brain when the heart does not supply fresh blood. The sensory organs and memory is last to be switched off, while the motor and pain sensations are closed first. Memory and shutting down of pain centers create NDE.
Yeah, I do not think that peoples belief in existence of God and soul is in any way justified. It is age-old superstition, and fear of loosing one's personality that makes people believe in God and life after death.
No. Mracles do not happen. It is chance and probability which cause various happenings.

 

[icehorse]

icehorse if you follow your heart then your life will not be a waste! To kill a baby to get "Stem Cells" is not morally right! It is NOT a loving act!

How do you know? To be clear, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, I'm just curious how you came to this conclusion?

I reply: This is "YOUR" conscience! It's what YOU think! .... But who are you?! Bad for the pigs.. Good for men! You are on the side of the pigs! Again... But who are you to make this decision!
Who is on the side of men!?

I already told you my philosophical foundations.

Now to explore the question of eating pigs a little more deeply, I think it's interesting to notice that in some religions, eating pigs is forbidden. So how do you know your scripture is correct, and the other guy's scripture is wrong?

 

[PearlSeeker]

I have a hunch that there is a higher power(s), what we humans call god(s). Relying on my intuition here.
Life is too trippy for there not to be a god I think. Everything works perfectly, the universe is ordered. The potential of our brains and the thoughts it can produce is too amazing (for me) to not be intelligently designed or divine in nature.
Do you follow your gut when it comes to belief in god? What does it tell you?

Nature is magnificent and mysterious indeed. There is order in natural laws... My intuition tells me there is something, something more to it... but I hesitate to call it God because there are so many myths and blind faith attached to the term.

 

[Dogknox20]

As someone who has formally studied logic, and holds certifications in the field, I assure you that it is not logic.

Ella S I hope all is well...
I reply: Saint Augustine writes in his Confessions, “You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You.” Perhaps Augustine's most often quoted phrase, it captures something that resonates deep within the human person.

 

[RestlessSoul]

There is something known as 'wrong reasoning'.

And there is something known as love, which outshines reason as the sun outshines the moon.