Why is Christianity dictated by the Church?

[Dinami]

I feel its this way because seriously speaking, Jesus didn't come to make a new religion nor break the laws and customs practiced but fulfilled them. After his death and ascension many people started to call themselves "Christians" or even "Messianics".

My point is ever since a new religion was formed "Christianity" the church took power. The church changed many things like i.e instead of Saturday being the holy day it was changed to Sunday because Jesus resurrected on this day. Secondly, the practiced Jewish holidays e.g Passover. Where in the Bible does it say Saturday to Sunday was to be changed? I do know Jesus healed and worked on Saturday, but doesn't changing it break the 10 commandments? Or even where in the Bible does it say Easter our Christian holiday is to be celebrated? I understand its from Jesus' last week but why are we celebrating new things? Again, the trinity it is from the church why do we follow this?

My point is why doesn't the Church stick to what the Bible says instead of fully transforming and creating new rules of its own?

What do you think?

 

[Animevox]

Obviously because the churches aren't into sola-scriptura. They like to make up their own rules and standards to suit there agenda. This is why you find many contradictions in the Bible.

 

[oldbadger]

I feel its this way because seriously speaking, Jesus didn't come to make a new religion nor break the laws and customs practiced but fulfilled them. After his death and ascension many people started to call themselves "Christians" or even "Messianics".

My point is ever since a new religion was formed "Christianity" the church took power. The church changed many things like i.e instead of Saturday being the holy day it was changed to Sunday because Jesus resurrected on this day. Secondly, the practiced Jewish holidays e.g Passover. Where in the Bible does it say Saturday to Sunday was to be changed? I do know Jesus healed and worked on Saturday, but doesn't changing it break the 10 commandments? Or even where in the Bible does it say Easter our Christian holiday is to be celebrated? I understand its from Jesus' last week but why are we celebrating new things? Again, the trinity it is from the church why do we follow this?

My point is why doesn't the Church stick to what the Bible says instead of fully transforming and creating new rules of its own?

What do you think?

It's a bit worse than that, even. The Roman Catholic Church decided which books to include in the Bible!

Not all Christians find it necessary (now) to follow any particular church. Christianity now can be what is within a believer's heart and soul. Of course, not long ago that kind of behaviour and belief attracted the death penalty!

 

[SageTree]

They like to make up their own rules and standards to suit there agenda. This is why you find many contradictions in the Bible.

Even the Books compiled into the Bible were chosen...
so Sola Scriptura wouldn't really matter even.

As for contradictions.... I think most if not all scripture fall prey to this for various reasons... but all of which are human.

It's also important to remember that the Bible's books were at one point their own Book, written to different audiences, to prove, point out and solidify the view in the Book being presented.

Even if there somehow truly isn't... how people see and interpret the meaning can have incongruity with others'.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Firstly, because of how the 'new covenant' is interpreted to necessitate a break with the old patterns, and thus a new doctrinal authority and teaching/social communing apparatus, a church needed to come about... And then apostolic beliefs added onto it - Peter the rock of the [universal] church, and Paul both promoting and reshaping, responsible for much of the "gentilization" of Christianity.

New Covenant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

It's the ultimate power trip. To install ones self as the absolute authority and divinely appointed emmisary between humanity and God.
At one time it was a death penalty offense to own a Bible. Peasants were illiterate so they had to abide by what they were told was god's word. The church and the crown worked in concert and very often the church had more power than the crown because it governed the souls of the people who were the subjects of God's anointed sovereign representative on earth.

In truth all people who believe in God and Jesus are the church. All faithful as one body in Christ. (Christos-annointed)
Even that much was let through to appear in the scripture.
Romans 12:5 So we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

 

[sojourner]

I feel its this way because seriously speaking, Jesus didn't come to make a new religion nor break the laws and customs practiced but fulfilled them. After his death and ascension many people started to call themselves "Christians" or even "Messianics".

My point is ever since a new religion was formed "Christianity" the church took power. The church changed many things like i.e instead of Saturday being the holy day it was changed to Sunday because Jesus resurrected on this day. Secondly, the practiced Jewish holidays e.g Passover. Where in the Bible does it say Saturday to Sunday was to be changed? I do know Jesus healed and worked on Saturday, but doesn't changing it break the 10 commandments? Or even where in the Bible does it say Easter our Christian holiday is to be celebrated? I understand its from Jesus' last week but why are we celebrating new things? Again, the trinity it is from the church why do we follow this?

My point is why doesn't the Church stick to what the Bible says instead of fully transforming and creating new rules of its own?

What do you think?

Because Christianity isn't "the religion," but "the assembly" -- the ekklesia -- the church.

The church didn't "take power." The church is "the power," because the church is the Body of Christ in the world.

Where in the bible does it say when Passover is to commemorated? Or Rosh Hashana? It doesn't, yet the Jews have "picked days" for those commemorations of events in their common life which are spiritually important. Christians have simply done the same thing.

The Trinity is from the church. But so is the bible. It didn't just fall out of the sky, you know. We celebrate new things, because Jesus was a "new thing," and brought the New Covenant. In a very real sense, the bible as we have it was also a "new thing" in the 3rd century -- in fact, didn't even exist for the first couple of hundred years of the church's existence. Shall we just forget about it because it's "new?" Or shall we forget about Jesus, and about the New Covenant, because they're "new?" At one point, Judaism was "new" and so was YHWH. Perhaps we should just forget about them, too?

 

[sojourner]

Somethingnifty:

It's the ultimate power trip.

If the church doesn't have control over it's religion, who does? Where does power and authority lie? If the church is the Body of Christ, and Christ is the head of the church, doesn't that sort of indicate that we, as the church, speak for God?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's a bit worse than that, even. The Roman Catholic Church decided which books to include in the Bible!

Come again?

One group of Christians got together and decided what would be the canon for themselves. Churches that weren't part of their communion did their own thing.

Since then, churches have split off from that original communion; some have made changes to what they consider "canon"; some haven't.

If you want a different Biblical canon, go ahead - make it whatever you want. It's not like the Pope will send a gang of monks to beat you up.

 

[SageTree]

It's not like the Pope will send a gang of monks to beat you up.

NOBODY expects them!!!

 

[Awoon]

I feel its this way because seriously speaking, Jesus didn't come to make a new religion nor break the laws and customs practiced but fulfilled them. After his death and ascension many people started to call themselves "Christians" or even "Messianics".

My point is ever since a new religion was formed "Christianity" the church took power. The church changed many things like i.e instead of Saturday being the holy day it was changed to Sunday because Jesus resurrected on this day. Secondly, the practiced Jewish holidays e.g Passover. Where in the Bible does it say Saturday to Sunday was to be changed? I do know Jesus healed and worked on Saturday, but doesn't changing it break the 10 commandments? Or even where in the Bible does it say Easter our Christian holiday is to be celebrated? I understand its from Jesus' last week but why are we celebrating new things? Again, the trinity it is from the church why do we follow this?

My point is why doesn't the Church stick to what the Bible says instead of fully transforming and creating new rules of its own?

What do you think?

The "Christian Church" is a political, Monarchical institution exempt from being told anything. They created the "NT" scriptures and hold all the patents, translations, interpretations of it.

 

[InChrist]

It's the ultimate power trip. To install ones self as the absolute authority and divinely appointed emmisary between humanity and God.
At one time it was a death penalty offense to own a Bible. Peasants were illiterate so they had to abide by what they were told was god's word. The church and the crown worked in concert and very often the church had more power than the crown because it governed the souls of the people who were the subjects of God's anointed sovereign representative on earth.

In truth all people who believe in God and Jesus are the church. All faithful as one body in Christ. (Christos-annointed)
Even that much was let through to appear in the scripture.
Romans 12:5 So we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

You highlight some excellent points. It was this realization that got me out of the Catholic Church, the Mormon Church and stopped me from continuing to look for any church that claimed to be "the true church".

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus...1 Tim. 2:5

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You highlight some excellent points. It was this realization that got me out of the Catholic Church, the Mormon Church and stopped me from continuing to look for any church that claimed to be "the true church".

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus...1 Tim. 2:5

So you disregard all the stuff in the Gospels and the Epistles about the church and a community of believers?

The Epistles especially make no sense without a church. Not only does Paul expend all sorts of effort giving precise details on how the power structure of a Christian church is supposed to work (which, IMO, implies a Christian church with a power structure), he addressed most of his letters to churches.

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

And yet Paul's letters were his writings to those churches and his commands unto them on behalf of what he claimed of Jesus.

Acts 7:48 Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands, as the prophet says,

 

[InChrist]

So you disregard all the stuff in the Gospels and the Epistles about the church and a community of believers?

The Epistles especially make no sense without a church. Not only does Paul expend all sorts of effort giving precise details on how the power structure of a Christian church is supposed to work (which, IMO, implies a Christian church with a power structure), he addressed most of his letters to churches.

I don't disregard the gospels, epistles, or the biblical instructions of Paul concerning the existence of or the running of the local church at all. I'm just saying that I believe the "church" is the body of Christ composed of all believers in Jesus Christ everywhere. It is not a certain group or organization which claims to be exclusively "the only true church".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And yet Paul's letters were his writings to those churches and his commands unto them on behalf of what he claimed of Jesus.

And many of those commands had to do with setting up churches that exercised authority over their members.

Acts 7:48 Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands, as the prophet says,

Wow - did you even bother to read the rest of that chapter? Did you miss the whole long preamble that talks in positive terms about human authority bestowed by God?

35 “This Moses whom they disowned, saying, ‘Who made you a ruler and a judge?’ is the one whom God [t]sent to be both a ruler and a deliverer with the help of the angel who appeared to him in the thorn bush. 36 This man led them out, performing wonders and [v]signs in the land of Egypt and in the Red Sea and in the wilderness for forty years. 37 This is the Moses who said to the sons of Israel, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet [w]like me from your brethren.’ 38 This is the one who was in the [x]congregation in the wilderness together with the angel who was speaking to him on Mount Sinai, and who was with our fathers; and he received living oracles to pass on to you.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't disregard the gospels, epistles, or the biblical instructions of Paul concerning the existence of or the running of the local church at all. I'm just saying that I believe the "church" is the body of Christ composed of all believers in Jesus Christ everywhere. It is not a certain group or organization which claims to be exclusively "the only true church".

Ah... so it's not that you're arguing against human authority; it's that you want your religion to have a decentralized version of human authority instead of one that's centrally controlled?

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

And many of those commands had to do with setting up churches that exercised authority over their members.


Wow - did you even bother to read the rest of that chapter? Did you miss the whole long preamble that talks in positive terms about human authority bestowed by God?

Matthew 16:16-18(NKJV)


16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.




I will build My ekklesia - Ekklesia (pronounced ek-klay-see'-ah) is The Greek word used in the Bible for church, which actually means “assembly” or literally “called out ones.” It is made up of the two Greek words, EK—“out of,” and KALEO—“shall be called.”




Acts 7:45-50 (NKJV)


45 which our fathers, having received it in turn, also brought with Joshua into the land possessed by the Gentiles, whom God drove out before the face of our fathers until the days of David, 46 who found favor before God and asked to find a dwelling for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built Him a house.
48 “However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:
49 ‘Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the Lord,
Or what is the place of My rest?
50 Has My hand not made all these things?’[a]

 

[InChrist]

Ah... so it's not that you're arguing against human authority; it's that you want your religion to have a decentralized version of human authority instead of one that's centrally controlled?

I am not arguing against human authority being exercised in the local church...if and when it is subject to Christ as the head. The scriptures always portray biblical or godly leadership as being submitted to the Lord, rather than self-seeking and serving others rather than seeking power. If you take a look at the actions of those leaders of organizations or churches which claim to be exclusively, "the true church'' or the way to God, you will see time and again that it is about exalting the leader or organization's power and control over the lives of others rather than leading people to Christ alone.

I don't want decentralized religion. What I want is a one on one relationship with Christ and fellowship with like-minded believers who look to Christ.

 

[sojourner]

NOBODY expects them!!!

"Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: Fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to the pope..."