Why is conversion only available before death?

[The Conservative Atheist]

Well the title is fairly clear about my question but allow me to elaborate on it. While I don't believe in god one thing has always felt off to me about Christianity, if God is all loving and genuinely wants to save everyone from hell than why not, after people die, allow them to repent and go to heaven?

 

[Kolibri]

2 reasons.

The dead do not exist except in God's memory. Adam was told he came from dust and that is what he would become after. He was not told he would die and live on as something else. (Ge 2:7; Ge 3:19)

Not all good people go to heaven. Most of mankind will wake up as humans in the general resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous. Then these unrighteous ones will have a chance to join the righteous in the process of converting. Conversion then will mean a prospect of never dying. (Acts 24:15; Mt 5:5; Re 20:12,13; 21:3,4) Being so close to Jesus' return, it also means a hope of never dying for many of those now living as well. (John 11:24-26)

 

[Glaurung]

Well the title is fairly clear about my question but allow me to elaborate on it. While I don't believe in god one thing has always felt off to me about Christianity, if God is all loving and genuinely wants to save everyone from hell than why not, after people die, allow them to repent and go to heaven?

This life is our opportunity to accept the offer of God. Yet, we do not know what happens between a soul and God at the very moment of death. From a Catholic view, there is some reason to believe that at this point God may yet save a person yet with a final opportunity for redemption, but this is speculative. The important thing is to get right with God in this life.

 

[The Conservative Atheist]

This life is our opportunity to accept the offer of God. Yet, we do not know what happens between a soul and God at the very moment of death. From a Catholic view, there is some reason to believe that at this point God may yet save a person yet with a final opportunity for redemption, but this is speculative. The important thing is to get right with God in this life.

Fair enough, although the main reason I was asking this is because people like to say that atheists and other religions will go to hell asserting that death is the end of the line and once this life is over then so are your chances at heaven. So I suppose your answer is one of the best ones I can hope for.

 

[Glaurung]

Fair enough, although the main reason I was asking this is because people like to say that atheists and other religions will go to hell asserting that death is the end of the line and once this life is over then so are your chances at heaven. So I suppose your answer is one of the best ones I can hope for.

Christian belief is not monolithic, however one thing the majority of us will assert is the complete necessity of Christ for our salvation. We don't need to infer from this that non-Christians will be automatically damned, but rather those who persist in a definite rejection of Christ cannot be saved because Christ is the means to our salvation.

If at any level, there is even an once of Christian belief within you, you are obligated to respond to that belief with active faith. Which is not always easy.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well the title is fairly clear about my question but allow me to elaborate on it. While I don't believe in god one thing has always felt off to me about Christianity, if God is all loving and genuinely wants to save everyone from hell than why not, after people die, allow them to repent and go to heaven?

First of all, please keep in mind that the Scriptures teach that all who died before Jesus do Not go to heaven - John 3:13; Acts 2:34
That means all who died before Jesus died, besides those who died after Jesus died, but did Not know about Jesus will have an opportunity to repent because as Acts 24:15 says, using the future tense, that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....
That future resurrection - or restoring back to healthy physical life on earth - takes place during Jesus' coming 1000-year kingdom rulership over earth when resurrected people can repent and inherit the earth forever according to Psalm 37:11,29; 72: 8,12-14

So, those called to be ' sons ' of God, the ' joint-heirs ' of Romans 8 :17, Jesus spiritual ' brothers' of Matthew 25:40 are the ones called to heaven, and they have a first or earlier resurrection to heaven according to Revelation 20:6; 5:9,10; 2:10
Whereas the majority of mankind - the MANY of Matthew 20:28 - will be brought back restored to physical life on a beautiful paradisaic earth taking place during Jesus' coming millennium-long day of ruling over earth - Rev. 22:2

 

[The Conservative Atheist]

Christian belief is not monolithic, however one thing the majority of us will assert is the complete necessity of Christ for our salvation. We don't need to infer from this that non-Christians will be automatically damned, but rather those who persist in a definite rejection of Christ cannot be saved because Christ is the means to our salvation.

If at any level, there is even an once of Christian belief within you, you are obligated to respond to that belief with active faith. Which is not always easy.

Ok so if I am understanding you than what you are saying is anyone who dies of any belief can go to heaven without ever accepting Christ in their lifetime?

 

[The Conservative Atheist]

First of all, please keep in mind that the Scriptures teach that all who died before Jesus do Not go to heaven - John 3:13; Acts 2:34
That means all who died before Jesus died, besides those who died after Jesus died, but did Not know about Jesus will have an opportunity to repent because as Acts 24:15 says, using the future tense, that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....
That future resurrection - or restoring back to healthy physical life on earth - takes place during Jesus' coming 1000-year kingdom rulership over earth when resurrected people can repent and inherit the earth forever according to Psalm 37:11,29; 72: 8,12-14

So, those called to be ' sons ' of God, the ' joint-heirs ' of Romans 8 :17, Jesus spiritual ' brothers' of Matthew 25:40 are the ones called to heaven, and they have a first or earlier resurrection to heaven according to Revelation 20:6; 5:9,10; 2:10
Whereas the majority of mankind - the MANY of Matthew 20:28 - will be brought back restored to physical life on a beautiful paradisaic earth taking place during Jesus' coming millennium-long day of ruling over earth - Rev. 22:2

Ok thanks guys I appreciate the answers.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This life is our opportunity to accept the offer of God. Yet, we do not know what happens between a soul and God at the very moment of death. From a Catholic view, there is some reason to believe that at this point God may yet save a person yet with a final opportunity for redemption, but this is speculative. The important thing is to get right with God in this life.

What happened between Jesus' soul and God at the moment of Jesus' death was that Jesus went to hell.- Acts 2 vs 27,31,32
Jesus did Not go to some permanent religious-myth hell of eternal burning, but to the Bible's hell or the grave for the sleeping dead.
Jesus taught sleep in death at John 11 vs 11-14
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach sleep in death:
References-> Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4; Daniel 12:2,13; Ecclesiastes 9:5
So, Jesus believed that while in temporary biblical hell Jesus would be in a sleep-like state until God resurrected Jesus out of the Bible's hell or grave - Acts 3:15; 13 vs 30,37

Although Jesus was Not a sinner, Jesus stood in our place, and as Ezekiel 18:4,20; Acts 3:23 mentions: the soul that sins dies.
So, while in the grave Jesus was a dead soul, or lifeless soul, until God resurrected Jesus back to life in the spirit realm of existence.
Jesus now has the keys to unlock biblical hell and death according to Revelation 1:18, and Jesus will unlock the grave for mankind during his coming millennium-long day of ruling over earth when Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will also usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill, and on earth there ' will be ' (future tense ) a resurrection........- Acts 24:15

 

[Shiranui117]

Ok so if I am understanding you than what you are saying is anyone who dies of any belief can go to heaven without ever accepting Christ in their lifetime?

As long as they don't reject Him outright, live according to their God-given conscience, and do what good they are able to, then yes, they can go to Heaven. They'll just end up accepting Christ and entering His Church a little later than others.

 

[Glaurung]

Ok so if I am understanding you than what you are saying is anyone who dies of any belief can go to heaven without ever accepting Christ in their lifetime?

To the extent that they are ignorant of the truth of Christianity and the authority of the visible Church, then yes if in their own way they have sincerely sought God. I do not believe God to demand the impossible from us.

If however, you explicitly reject Christ and persist in this rejection until the very end, then you risk committing blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which can never be forgiven

 

[Pegg]

Well the title is fairly clear about my question but allow me to elaborate on it. While I don't believe in god one thing has always felt off to me about Christianity, if God is all loving and genuinely wants to save everyone from hell than why not, after people die, allow them to repent and go to heaven?

because of this truth:

Ecclesiastes 9: 2 All have the very same outcome,*+ the righteous and the wicked,+ the good and the clean and the unclean, those sacrificing and those not sacrificing. The good one is the same as the sinner; the one who swears an oath is the same as the one who is cautious about swearing an oath. 3 This is a distressing thing that happens under the sun: Because all have the same outcome,*+the heart of humans is also full of bad; and there is madness in their heart during their life, and then they die!*
4 There is hope for whoever is among the living, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion.+ 5 For the living know* that they will die,+ but the dead know nothing at all,+ nor do they have any more reward,* because all memory of them is forgotten.

​

Because of this truth (death means death, not life in heaven or hell), the only hope ANY of us have of a future life rests in Gods hands. And thankfully, he has promised to bring all the dead back to life...the good and the bad.

Acts 24:15 And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection+ of both the righteous and the unrighteous.​

 

[BilliardsBall]

Well the title is fairly clear about my question but allow me to elaborate on it. While I don't believe in god one thing has always felt off to me about Christianity, if God is all loving and genuinely wants to save everyone from hell than why not, after people die, allow them to repent and go to heaven?

Because God has foreknowledge and knows who would trust Him and who wouldn't.

I see the question behind your question as well. Remember that a person who rejects Jesus is often also a person who has been witnessed to by dozens, even hundreds of Christians, over decades. Some atheists have seen hundreds of Christian programs, attended church for decades, etc.

 

[Shiranui117]

Because God has foreknowledge and knows who would trust Him and who wouldn't.

I see the question behind your question as well. Remember that a person who rejects Jesus is often also a person who has been witnessed to by dozens, even hundreds of Christians, over decades. Some atheists have seen hundreds of Christian programs, attended church for decades, etc.

But is it truly Jesus that they reject, or the version of Christianity presented to them? I know the hellfire-and-brimstone preachers that spew hatred and ignorance on college campuses are roundly rejected by everyone with half a brain cell and a sliver of a heart (including myself), yet I don't think it would be fair to say that those people are rejecting Jesus.

 

[BilliardsBall]

But is it truly Jesus that they reject, or the version of Christianity presented to them? I know the hellfire-and-brimstone preachers that spew hatred and ignorance on college campuses are roundly rejected by everyone with half a brain cell and a sliver of a heart (including myself), yet I don't think it would be fair to say that those people are rejecting Jesus.

And the reason why those preachers are that way, in part? Because Christians scream at them and fight with them in violation of scripture.

Yes, some people reject the version of Christianity presented to them, but the Bible is plain that those who do not hear or understand the gospel are judged, based on what they know and what is in their heart.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

As long as they don't reject Him outright, live according to their God-given conscience, and do what good they are able to, then yes, they can go to Heaven. They'll just end up accepting Christ and entering His Church a little later than others.

Then how do you explain your ^above ^ thoughts when they are Not found in Scripture ?

 

[Shiranui117]

Then how do you explain your ^above ^ thoughts when they are Not found in Scripture ?

Except, they are found in Scripture:

Romans 2:14-16 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Revelation 20:12-13 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in thebooks, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

Mark 9:40 For he who is not against us is for us.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

As is clear, God will judge us according to the understanding that we have, and whether or not we are open to Christ.

 

[Blackmarch]

Well the title is fairly clear about my question but allow me to elaborate on it. While I don't believe in god one thing has always felt off to me about Christianity, if God is all loving and genuinely wants to save everyone from hell than why not, after people die, allow them to repent and go to heaven?

any semblence to that concept was purged from christianity early on.. and made loose sort of comeback with the catholic concept of purgatory. the next concept that popped up that kind of touches it is the one were everybody is saved regardless of what they do or believe. You don't really see the concept you talk about appear until mid 1800s and then only to sects not really considered mainstream (Mormons/LDS were probably one of the first significant groups to have such).

 

[Salek Atesh]

Coming from an Abrahamic faith that explicitly says post-mortem conversion is possible, I wonder if anyone here who thinks otherwise can help me with a question:

Where in Scripture does it say that there can't be any conversion after death??

 

[atpollard]

Coming from an Abrahamic faith that explicitly says post-mortem conversion is possible, I wonder if anyone here who thinks otherwise can help me with a question:
Where in Scripture does it say that there can't be any conversion after death??

While a little convoluted ...
1 John 5:

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.​

... could be interpreted that after death it is too late.

Hebrews 9:27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
... implies die, then judged ... no temporary waiting room full of gospel tracts.

Matthew 25

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”​

While a parable, thus potentially not literal ... it doesn't sound good.

There are also LOTS of verses on 'sin and death' vs 'faith/repent and life' that could be read as contrary to post-mortem salvation.

In all cases that I am familiar with, it is a matter of interpretation.
I know of no 'smoking gun' verse that says you cannot be saved after death.
On the other hand, you are playing a heck of a game of Russian Roulette.