Why is dogma bad?

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why is dogma bad?

Why is dogma good?

In general dogma is necessary for

Civilizations are built by dogmas, human beings when directed towards some greater truth can produce phenomenal works of art, architecture and innovation. All dogmas rise and fall, to be replaced by other newer dogma which is more fit for the cultural and social circumstances of that civilization. I think strong civilizations need dogmas to thrive, it's a form of societal selection.

How are you defining dogma? Religious dogma, like in Catholicism or...? Because it's certainly possible to have civilization without religious or political dogma.

 

[Tabu]

Weird inference from what I said, but if a parent's only reason to get their kids to do what they say is "because I said so", then they aren't teaching the kid to make good decisions on their own.

So you are against those dogmas which are imposed with a tag " I said so" ,because they curb an individuals decision making abilities ,
and you are not opposed to doctrines as a whole .

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So you are against those dogmas which are imposed with a tag " I said so" ,because they curb an individuals decision making abilities ,
and you are not opposed to doctrines as a whole .

You seem bound and determined to misinterpret what I say, so I don't see how continuing this discussion would be useful.

 

[jonathan180iq]

A set of ideas or beliefs that are taught as (and proclaimed as) truths by an authoritative body within a tradition. Followers of that same tradition are expected to accept these teachings, and in some cases it is expected that people outside of the tradition should accept these truths as well.

I'd like to hear why any of this should be considered good.

From a personal level, it's very dangerous to blindly follow everything someone tells you. We would never advise our children to just believe everything that's told to them, would we?

"Hey little Johnny, don't ever drink water. Water is filled with flouride and makes you easier to control. Instead, drink Brawndo!"

Why then do we accept such a practice from adults? Is it just because the "ideas or beliefs that are taught" come from a (proclaimed) authority figure?

Well, I'm sorry, but f#ck that. Until someone (or something) demonstrates to me that their values, opinions, or teachings can be consistently trusted, they don't get a free pass in having a voice in my life. This was true even of my parents from the time I was very little. There were a few things that they were right about - and on those topics I will approach them with questions or discussions. They were also many things they were wrong about... It doesn't make sense to me to put much stock in them for advice on things that they have spent their whole lives not knowing much about, does it?

All of that simply brings up the question of where authority comes from... Nothing has any authority in our lives unless we choose to endow it. Some people can be all willy-nilly in their giving away of authority, choosing to openly value any trash that is handed to them. I just think that's foolish. Before I eat a whole plate of something, I taste it first to see if I like it. If I don't like, I don't eat it. It's as simple as that.

 

[savagewind]

All of that simply brings up the question of where authority comes from... Nothing has any authority in our lives unless we choose to endow it. Some people can be all willy-nilly in their giving away of authority, choosing to openly value any trash that is handed to them. I just think that's foolish. Before I eat a whole plate of something, I taste it first to see if I like it. If I don't like, I don't eat it. It's as simple as that.

There are many sets of doctrines in this world and each set has a following because those following tasted them and chose to follow the one he or she liked.

For instance, I wanted to know about Jesus so when he was mentioned by a Jehovah's Witness as though she knew, I was caught. I tried to follow that doctrine for many years, but when I discovered that they do not know like they say they know, I left it. I had never made it a belief. It was like going to school for me. That is why I say a set of ideas can be good (I think that being in 'school' with the JWs was good for me), but a set of beliefs is bad. Once a person believes something, I think it is nearly impossible for it to become unbelieved. When I was with them I chose to believe only what I knew and understood.

I suspect that if you hold onto a belief that is bad, you will go where that bad belief goes. How is this not true?

Now, I do not believe much and I call that being free.

 

[Thief]

Dogma is bad inasmuch as it's not provisional; not subject to question or examination.
It's bad when it's enforced.
It's bad when It's a prerequisite for acceptance or moral consideration within a status community.

Sharia law?

 

[Tabu]

You seem bound and determined to misinterpret what I say, so I don't see how continuing this discussion would be useful.

And you are not clear as to what is that which you are opposed to.
Anyways , lets discontinue because you say so

 

[viole]

Some traditions within the major world religions have teachings that could be described as dogmas. For our purposes here, let us define "dogma" as follows:

A set of ideas or beliefs that are taught as (and proclaimed as) truths by an authoritative body within a tradition. Followers of that same tradition are expected to accept these teachings, and in some cases it is expected that people outside of the tradition should accept these truths as well. ​

"Dogma" is a term that has developed negative connotations in some circles. It has come to be regarded as something bad. What I'm curious to explore is why this perception exists. What is it about dogma that you feel is bad? What about dogma might be good?

If there is some other understanding of the term "dogma" that you prefer to use, please include it in your response so we don't misunderstand your angle. I'd encourage thinking about the above framing, though - I deliberately left out some of the more judgmental elements you sometimes see in definitions of dogma to make those of us who have a reflexive "eew... dogma" reaction rethink our conclusions a little bit (and yes, I tend to be one of those).

I dogmatically state here that you are wrong.

Your call.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Quintessence]

Sorry for the drop and run on this thread, guys - I usually like to provide a bit more feedback than I have. That's what happens when I post a thread before the weekend and then taking vacation time. What I find interesting in questions like this is it tells us more about ourselves than anything else. It helps us to understand our biases in how we perceive the world around us, and by extension, our values. Then I also like to ask "where did we get these ideas from?" I noticed I'd started developing that "ew... dogma" reaction and then asked myself "gee, where did I learn that response from? Who taught me that?" Sometimes, we don't know the answer to that question, which is a good cue to investigate oneself and one's thoughts further.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Sorry for the drop and run on this thread, guys - I usually like to provide a bit more feedback than I have. That's what happens when I post a thread before the weekend and then taking vacation time. What I find interesting in questions like this is it tells us more about ourselves than anything else. It helps us to understand our biases in how we perceive the world around us, and by extension, our values. Then I also like to ask "where did we get these ideas from?" I noticed I'd started developing that "ew... dogma" reaction and then asked myself "gee, where did I learn that response from? Who taught me that?" Sometimes, we don't know the answer to that question, which is a good cue to investigate oneself and one's thoughts further.

Hmm...it almost sounded like you're suggesting you had a dogmatic response to dogma. Heeheehee.

 

[icehorse]

I start with a more general, non-religious description of dogma. I think that when a person is first learning a complex, new topic, temporary dogma can be an aid to learning. Once the topic is mastered however, the temporary dogma ought to be abandoned in favor of critical thinking.

Using that as a basis, I think dogma in religion is bad because it never allows the critical thinking phase. It keeps everyone at the beginner level, which is a means to control people, not a means to help people flourish.

 

[serp777]

Some traditions within the major world religions have teachings that could be described as dogmas. For our purposes here, let us define "dogma" as follows:

A set of ideas or beliefs that are taught as (and proclaimed as) truths by an authoritative body within a tradition. Followers of that same tradition are expected to accept these teachings, and in some cases it is expected that people outside of the tradition should accept these truths as well. ​

"Dogma" is a term that has developed negative connotations in some circles. It has come to be regarded as something bad. What I'm curious to explore is why this perception exists. What is it about dogma that you feel is bad? What about dogma might be good?

If there is some other understanding of the term "dogma" that you prefer to use, please include it in your response so we don't misunderstand your angle. I'd encourage thinking about the above framing, though - I deliberately left out some of the more judgmental elements you sometimes see in definitions of dogma to make those of us who have a reflexive "eew... dogma" reaction rethink our conclusions a little bit (and yes, I tend to be one of those).

The truth is that dogma based on reality, evidence, and science is good, and dogma based on hearsay, assertions, claims, and "visions" are bad.

Arguably there is a scientific dogma that scientists have to subscribe to or else they are not considered scientists by the vast scientific community. Dogmatic principles include things like peer review and a sufficient amount of evidence collection, which are assumed to be the gold standard without question. Scientific authorities have handed these principles down to us. However, these dogmas work and have lead to the success of science, which means this kind of dogma is good.

The bad, horrible, awful dogma comes from people like the Ayatollah or Muhammad, whom dictate religious principles and interpretations as the word of God. These aren't based on anything, like the success of science is, but are instead based on the unsubstantiated claims of one or a few people.

 

[Sunstone]

I understand "dogma" to mean a set of beliefs meant to be uncritically accepted as proof of membership in a particular group. As such, I think dogma encourages people to sacrifice reason for the sake of membership in a group.