Why Is God Invisible And Where Does He Live?

[MJFlores]

Ha ha. This is funny. I see God in your picture there. Thank you. It's a great example.

>>No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. 1 John 4:12<<

Interesting. You quote the New Testament?
In the Old Testament, God appeared to Adam and Eve, Cain, Abraham, Moses, Solomon and more to name some of the biggees. How did this happen?

I'm sorry Mr. Bond,

Adam and Eve heard the voice of God
Adam and Eve saw angels
Cain and Abel heard God
so did Abraham, Moses and the rest of the prophets of God.

 

[james bond]

Most reasonable theists do not believe that deities exist in a physical form, at least within our dimension. Some believe that a god is an omnipresent force, an archetype, a centrally located force, an extraplanetary or extradimensional entity etc.

I was just reading today about the Setian Theory of Forms. This is the theory that Setians use to express the truth behind theism. The Theory of Forms points out the difference between material and form. "Form" is synonymous with essence or "character" in this case. Think about a wave. A wave is a concept or an essential entity, not a physical one. When a wave moves in towards the shore, it is not made of the same exact material as it was at its source. The water was constantly being replaced throughout the wave's course. Yet, it is still the same wave, the same "thing". That is what form, or essence is. The same applies to the radiating field of consciousness. The energy is constantly being dissipated and replaced, but it is still the same entity because of its form.

My theism is sort of a mix between the above and the concept of extradimensional theism. I think that "forms" exist as material on other dimensional planes.

So, before science discovered extra dimensions or even in our 3rd dimension, your beliefs felt or had some intuition about these "forms?" How was that done?

People have been meditating for millennia. There is a reason for this.
Through this discipline, it is possible to shut down the mind so completely that Reality snaps suddenly into perception.
This is what Spiritual Enlightenment is.
Very, very few ever achieve it.
Because to do so, it is indistinguishable from death.
And who has the courage to voluntarily die while simultaneously being alive enough to seek God?

Truth is: God is everywhere, all the time, in plain sight, unsuspected and unrecognized.
It is precisely because people expect God to be recognizable to them, that they so routinely fail to perceive God.

God is. That's that. You can believe anything you like. But nothing but you is changed by whatever it is you believe.

I agree about the spiritual enlightenment part. The way I perceive God is God exists in each person. Thus, God made this person the way they are. Whether we make friends with another or disagree with another is part of God's work. Just because I can't convince somebody to my way of thinking doesn't mean I should get frustrated. I can only change what I can change. I can't change their views or else I am opposing God. In this sense, it's true that God already knows what will happen to us.

The other things we do not see are thoughts and ideas. The beauty and complexity of some thoughts and ideas being put into action and their by-products are expressions of God.

Finally, I suspect God exists in physical form as light, i.e. parts of the EMS. It's my example to explain the Trinity. We saw Jesus as human and as visible light. How do we get intuition, thoughts or ideas? By what mechanism? I suspect the EMS. That voice in your head could be radio waves. The mystical or spiritual feeling could be due to infrared waves. Bees are supposed to be able to see them. Can we capture the moment with an infrared camera? Other analogies I've heard used were space, matter and time to explain the Trinity.

 

[james bond]

I'm sorry Mr. Bond,

Adam and Eve heard the voice of God
Adam and Eve saw angels
Cain and Abel heard God
so did Abraham, Moses and the rest of the prophets of God.

I got my "illustrated" Bible now ha ha. I was trying to compare Old and New Testament. I think we do not see God anymore in the NT, so we're in agreement there. I was puzzled about the OT though. So "... God blew into the nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living creature." So we have a man who isn't living until then. God holds the lifeless body and breathes and he comes to life. It doesn't make sense to just disappear. However, most of the other stuff begins with "And God said" to back up your argument. Then we get to the part where he casts a deep sleep upon Adam and takes his rib to create Eve. I find it hard to believe that he would not stay when Adam wakes up to find Eve and then go into the next "And God said" and "And the man said."

And God is terribly upset with Cain when "And the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you distressed, and why is your face fallen." Followed up by another "And the Lord said to Cain, "Where is Abel, your brother?" Is Cain going to just listen to a voice? There would have to be some terrific voice inflection for Cain to be fearful.

As for the rest, if they saw angels, then why not see God?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Non-scientists misapplying sciency-sounding words and concepts to attempt to "prove" the existence of god(s) or other mythological characters.

How novel.

 

[james bond]

I'm mean think about it. There's no reason for God to not appear since he creates the Tree of Knowledge as the test. It's the proof of God. A divine being just pops up and suddenly I'm alive. He puts me to sleep and I wake up with a woman. We talk, interact and receive instructions.

Today, we do not see God unless we have faith and believe. Our Tree of Knowledge is John 3:16. It wouldn't be a test if we saw God and saw his miracles.

 

[MJFlores]

I got my "illustrated" Bible now ha ha. I was trying to compare Old and New Testament. I think we do not see God anymore in the NT, so we're in agreement there. I was puzzled about the OT though. So "... God blew into the nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living creature." So we have a man who isn't living until then. God holds the lifeless body and breathes and he comes to life. It doesn't make sense to just disappear. However, most of the other stuff begins with "And God said" to back up your argument. Then we get to the part where he casts a deep sleep upon Adam and takes his rib to create Eve. I find it hard to believe that he would not stay when Adam wakes up to find Eve and then go into the next "And God said" and "And the man said."

And God is terribly upset with Cain when "And the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you distressed, and why is your face fallen." Followed up by another "And the Lord said to Cain, "Where is Abel, your brother?" Is Cain going to just listen to a voice? There would have to be some terrific voice inflection for Cain to be fearful.

As for the rest, if they saw angels, then why not see God?

You have pictures there Mr. Bond?

Does your bible depicts this after Cain murdered Abel?

When God breathed life to Adam's nostrils did he shown himself?

When God spoke to Noah did he shown himself as Morgan Freeman?

When God spoke to Moses did he really shown himself?

He either would send an angel or he would speak in a voice from heaven.

Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. Deuteronomy 4:12

From heaven he made you hear his voice to discipline you. On earth he showed you his great fire, and you heard his words from out of the fire.
Deuteronomy 4:36

 

[Windwalker]

You summarized it well. Theism is more philosophical than it is scientific. It's more about philosophical theory.

Actually, I'd say theology is more that then theism is. Theism is really more symbolism or a metaphor for ultimate Reality. It's a face humans put upon the Infinite in order to try to relate to it as a object that awareness can think about. But to then try to define that Face and theorize about it, that's theology and turns God into a projection of our minds. "I pray God make me free of God that I may know God in his unconditioned being" ~Meister Eckhart.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is where we come to the classic chicken or egg type argument. From creation science, we know that the chicken came first.

Believer: So, how did these dimensions get there?

Non-Believer: It just occurs in nature.

Believer: It seems well designed and there are signs of intelligence. I can't see how these dimensions and properties or something like that could just come together.

Non-Believer: Believe me. It happens.

Believer (mutters to herself): It does not. Nothing will make them believe.

It does in creation science and that's what I am suggesting here. I got more in my 4th dimension or Tesseract thread as I'm still learning about the extra dimensions.

We can't see ultraviolet and infrared either, but that doesn't mean god is behind them.

 

[David T]

How about if I just reduce your post, so I can't see it anymore?

Exactly like you understand nature? Southern baptist can be specific but it also can be general and when it's dressed up in secular drag it's just the same ole going extinct reductionism without Jesus. Dimasaurs are dumber than a post like lemmings running off a cliff..

 

[David T]

Actually, I'd say theology is more that then theism is. Theism is really more symbolism or a metaphor for ultimate Reality. It's a face humans put upon the Infinite in order to try to relate to it as a object that awareness can think about. But to then try to define that Face and theorize about it, that's theology and turns God into a projection of our minds. "I pray God make me free of God that I may know God in his unconditioned being" ~Meister Eckhart.

Theology is so lame it's painful stupid. Like pretending to play the guitar by adjusting the equalizer on a stereo. We have the Wesley settings vs the Calvin settings vs the Mormon settings vs the Catholic settings vs the eastern orthodox settings. And on and on it goes. They all agree in religion and in secular drag all truth starts with my brain!!!!

 

[james bond]

You have pictures there Mr. Bond?

Does your bible depicts this after Cain murdered Abel?
View attachment 16969

When God breathed life to Adam's nostrils did he shown himself?

When God spoke to Noah did he shown himself as Morgan Freeman?
View attachment 16970

When God spoke to Moses did he really shown himself?
View attachment 16971

He either would send an angel or he would speak in a voice from heaven.

Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. Deuteronomy 4:12

From heaven he made you hear his voice to discipline you. On earth he showed you his great fire, and you heard his words from out of the fire.
Deuteronomy 4:36

Yes, Mr. Flores, I think I have the superior pictures.

I have to guess since I do not know the art you depict. Where does it come from? All of the art is beautiful, but it shows God as incorporeal which is one depiction of God as many Bible passages show. However, this is only one description of God. The other description of God is as anthropomorphic. "He “sets [his] face” against evil (Leviticus 20:6); the Lord will make “His face” to shine on you (Numbers 6:25); He “stretched out his hand” (Exodus 7:5; Isaiah 23:11), and God scattered enemies with His strong arm (Psalm 89:10). He “stoops down to look on the heavens and the earth” (Psalm 113:6). He “keeps his eye” on the land (Deuteronomy 11:12), the “eyes of the Lord” are on the righteous (Psalm 34:15), and the earth is His “footstool” (Isaiah 66:1)."

What is an anthropomorphism?

In Genesis 32:22-30, Jacob wrestles with God. "So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”

Then there is Exodus 24:9-11 which I admit is NT. "Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank."

Thus, the person seeing God has something that they can relate to, and this is described in the Bible, too. While God isn't in a human form or visible to everyone, he is in a form that the person seeing and touching is able to relate to. I have to admit, there isn't a clear distinction between OT and NT that I previously thought such as Exodus 24:9-11 in the NT.

There is no reason for God to not reveal himself or be invisible in the passages that we were referring to earlier from the Book of Genesis. While I agree he can be depicted as incorporeal and invisible as in your art samples, this isn't all God is. Maybe the artist is showing how a third eye sees what is happening or they just choose to depict God as such. The other is for the person to see God in terms we can relate to which has been magnificently illustrated too, e.g. Michaelangelo and the Sistine Chapel part of which is the Book of Genesis.

 

[MJFlores]

Yes, Mr. Flores, I think I have the superior pictures.

I have to guess since I do not know the art you depict. Where does it come from? All of the art is beautiful, but it shows God as incorporeal which is one depiction of God as many Bible passages show. However, this is only one description of God. The other description of God is as anthropomorphic. "He “sets [his] face” against evil (Leviticus 20:6); the Lord will make “His face” to shine on you (Numbers 6:25); He “stretched out his hand” (Exodus 7:5; Isaiah 23:11), and God scattered enemies with His strong arm (Psalm 89:10). He “stoops down to look on the heavens and the earth” (Psalm 113:6). He “keeps his eye” on the land (Deuteronomy 11:12), the “eyes of the Lord” are on the righteous (Psalm 34:15), and the earth is His “footstool” (Isaiah 66:1)."

What is an anthropomorphism?

In Genesis 32:22-30, Jacob wrestles with God. "So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”

Then there is Exodus 24:9-11 which I admit is NT. "Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank."

Thus, the person seeing God has something that they can relate to, and this is described in the Bible, too. While God isn't in a human form or visible to everyone, he is in a form that the person seeing and touching is able to relate to. I have to admit, there isn't a clear distinction between OT and NT that I previously thought such as Exodus 24:9-11 in the NT.

There is no reason for God to not reveal himself or be invisible in the passages that we were referring to earlier from the Book of Genesis. While I agree he can be depicted as incorporeal and invisible as in your art samples, this isn't all God is. Maybe the artist is showing how a third eye sees what is happening or they just choose to depict God as such. The other is for the person to see God in terms we can relate to which has been magnificently illustrated too, e.g. Michaelangelo and the Sistine Chapel part of which is the Book of Genesis.

I am sorry double O, Michelangelo painted an old man on the ceiling not God.

 

[Deeje]

Then there is Exodus 24:9-11 which I admit is NT. "Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank."

When God's prophets "saw" God, it was through a revelation or a vision or through angels speaking on his behalf.

In the transfiguration all three of the apostles "saw" the glorified Jesus speaking with Moses and Elijah, yet these men had been dead for centuries. The ancient Jews had no belief in life after death, so Peter naturally thought that they had been resurrected and wanted to erect tents for them.

Never has God appeared "in person" to any human, even though it may have seemed that way to some.....and for a very good reason. We are speaking about a being who created all the suns in the universe, our own being rather small in comparison to others, which are gigantic by comparison. We cannot gaze at even our little sun without doing damage to ourselves.

When Moses requested : “Cause me to see, please, your glory.”  
God replied: “I myself shall cause all my goodness to pass before your face, and I will declare the name of Jehovah before you; and I will favor the one whom I may favor, and I will show mercy to the one to whom I may show mercy.” 20 And he added: “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.” (Exodus 33:18-20)

A face to face encounter with the Creator would mean certain death to a mere mortal human.

Thus, the person seeing God has something that they can relate to, and this is described in the Bible, too. While God isn't in a human form or visible to everyone, he is in a form that the person seeing and touching is able to relate to. I have to admit, there isn't a clear distinction between OT and NT that I previously thought such as Exodus 24:9-11 in the NT.

Yes, the Creator presents himself as someone humans can relate to because he wants us to identify with him as a father figure. God has no gender, but is always spoken of as male. He does not have a physical body, but speaks as if he does so that we will see him in human terms. He is our literal Father as the one who caused our birth, giving all living things the power to reproduce. We are made in his image, possessing his qualities, so he has given us the power to recreate life, passing it on to the next generation.

The apostle John clearly stated that "No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him." (John 1:18) God's closest companion, his firstborn son, came to earth to give his life for mankind and to "explain" God to his disciples. He did a wonderful job, representing his Father perfectly. Its a shame that the Pharisees didn't think so.

There is no reason for God to not reveal himself or be invisible in the passages that we were referring to earlier from the Book of Genesis.

For the reasons stated above, it is our best interests that he doesn't reveal himself directly. But through his angelic representatives, those with a special role like Seraphs and Cherubs take on special service. These are powerful, high ranking angels who are always seen in visions as attendants around God's throne, upholding his Sovereignty. There is one who ranks highest of all and that is Michael the Archangel. He is their Commander and chief.

When angels had messages to deliver to God's earthly servants, they materialized in human form. That was because God's people were forbidden by Law to communicate with spirits following the flood, when demon angels materialized human bodies for their own wicked purpose. Being unable to materialize again after the flood, demons use spiritism to mislead mankind, so all forms of spiritism were banned. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

God is a spirit and he dwells in a spiritual realm, unseen to humans.....but certainly not unknown by them.

 

[james bond]

I am sorry double O, Michelangelo painted an old man on the ceiling not God.

Well, I'm still waiting for an answer to my question instead of your art appreciation fail.

 

[james bond]

When God's prophets "saw" God, it was through a revelation or a vision or through angels speaking on his behalf.

In the transfiguration all three of the apostles "saw" the glorified Jesus speaking with Moses and Elijah, yet these men had been dead for centuries. The ancient Jews had no belief in life after death, so Peter naturally thought that they had been resurrected and wanted to erect tents for them.

Never has God appeared "in person" to any human, even though it may have seemed that way to some.....and for a very good reason. We are speaking about a being who created all the suns in the universe, our own being rather small in comparison to others, which are gigantic by comparison. We cannot gaze at even our little sun without doing damage to ourselves.

When Moses requested : “Cause me to see, please, your glory.”  
God replied: “I myself shall cause all my goodness to pass before your face, and I will declare the name of Jehovah before you; and I will favor the one whom I may favor, and I will show mercy to the one to whom I may show mercy.” 20 And he added: “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.” (Exodus 33:18-20)

A face to face encounter with the Creator would mean certain death to a mere mortal human.



Yes, the Creator presents himself as someone humans can relate to because he wants us to identify with him as a father figure. God has no gender, but is always spoken of as male. He does not have a physical body, but speaks as if he does so that we will see him in human terms. He is our literal Father as the one who caused our birth, giving all living things the power to reproduce. We are made in his image, possessing his qualities, so he has given us the power to recreate life, passing it on to the next generation.

The apostle John clearly stated that "No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him." (John 1:18) God's closest companion, his firstborn son, came to earth to give his life for mankind and to "explain" God to his disciples. He did a wonderful job, representing his Father perfectly. Its a shame that the Pharisees didn't think so.



For the reasons stated above, it is our best interests that he doesn't reveal himself directly. But through his angelic representatives, those with a special role like Seraphs and Cherubs take on special service. These are powerful, high ranking angels who are always seen in visions as attendants around God's throne, upholding his Sovereignty. There is one who ranks highest of all and that is Michael the Archangel. He is their Commander and chief.

When angels had messages to deliver to God's earthly servants, they materialized in human form. That was because God's people were forbidden by Law to communicate with spirits following the flood, when demon angels materialized human bodies for their own wicked purpose. Being unable to materialize again after the flood, demons use spiritism to mislead mankind, so all forms of spiritism were banned. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

God is a spirit and he dwells in a spiritual realm, unseen to humans.....but certainly not unknown by them.

This is where the Trinity comes in handy. Many people have seen Jesus and he's God. God the Father can certainly make someone see him anthropomorphically.

 

[james bond]

We can't see ultraviolet and infrared either, but that doesn't mean god is behind them.

God. 1st day. I can only guess that you're stuck on biology and missed the origins class.

That's what the invisible God represents in my hypothesis. We can't see the Holy Spirit, but can hear him as the little voice in our heads as well the intuitive feeling that we get. That radio and infrared waves. Bees and maybe other creatures can see it or feel it better than we can. Ultraviolet and higher frequency waves can't be seen by humans either unless they fluoresce. Apprently, insects can see it. Is that the anthropomorphic God? We see God's fluorescence.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

God. 1st day. I can only guess that you're stuck on biology and missed the origins class.

That's not even a rebuttal against or addressing my point.

We can't see the Holy Spirit, but can hear him as the little voice in our heads as well the intuitive feeling that we get.

How do you know that isn't Krishna? Or any other religion? They all make this claim. They can't all be right. My money is on nothing that we humans have ever thought of or imagined. IMO, if any claim about god comes from a human, it is wrong. What if it's my ancestors communicating with me, or Lucifer guiding my path? Same "intuitive feeling," different labels.

 

[Altfish]

One of the theories of creation scientists is that we do not see God because he lives in another dimension.

Sorry. Wrong in the first sentence. It is NOT a theory, at best it is a hypothesis and that's debatable.

To be a theory it has to be a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world.

 

[Deeje]

This is where the Trinity comes in handy. Many people have seen Jesus and he's God. God the Father can certainly make someone see him anthropomorphically.

Why would John say that "no man has ever seen God", if Jesus was God?
Identifying Jesus as "theos" does not make him the Almighty God.
There is not one scripture that identifies Jesus as an equal of his Father.
Jesus identified his Father as "the only true God". (John 17:3)
He told us to worship God alone. (Luke 4:8; Deuteronomy 10:20) The Jews did not worship a triune god and Jesus was Jewish.

There is no question that he was a divine being who volunteered to give his life for the benefit of mankind, but if Jesus was God, then it was a huge over-payment. All Jesus needed to be, was the equivalent of Adam in order for justice to be served.
God's Law stated that a life was to be given for a life. Adam's life was forfeited by his sin, thereby sentencing all his offspring to an inheritance of sin and death. An immortal God cannot become a mortal human. An immortal God cannot die, so If Jesus did not really die, then the ransom was not paid and we are still condemned by Adam's sin.

The Apostle Paul wrote:
Romans 5:12, 15, 19:
"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned....
For if by one man’s trespass many died, how much more did the undeserved kindness of God and his free gift by the undeserved kindness of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to many!.....
For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one person many will be made righteous."

The trinity is a lie. Jesus never once claimed to be God.

 

[MJFlores]

This is where the Trinity comes in handy. Many people have seen Jesus and he's God. God the Father can certainly make someone see him anthropomorphically.

I'm sorry James, I don't believe in the Trinity.

The only true God is the Father.
My Lord Jesus is the Son and was sent

John 17:3,1 New International Version (NIV)

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.

My Lord Jesus was very clear in his words during his time here on Earth. He looked up toward heaven and and prayed to the Father.

He said this is eternal life - to know you [the Father], the only true God. What is the word "only" - doesn't it mean - exclusivity? If people refuse to believe that the only true God is the Father, would they have eternal life? I believe, my Lord Jesus is clear with that.

Accordingly, my Lord Jesus said the Father [who is the only true God] sent him on Earth. This is the thing that people missed - they believe in the Trinity but my Lord Jesus left his words who is God and who isn't.