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Why is god said to have smoke coming out of his nostrils?

The Fog Horn

Active Member
mount-sinai.JPG



Holy smoke!!!!!

I thought I'd share this drawing, which I did last night. I hope you like it. I will do more soon. More images of Mount Sinai, in its full GLORY, can be seen here...

OH MY VOLCANO!!!: Mount Sinai Photos

Exodus 19:16 On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled.

Exodus 19:18 And mount Si'nai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire.

Exodus 20:18And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 21And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

Exodus 24:17 To the Israelites the glory of the LORD looked like a consuming fire on top of the mountain.
 

somethingNiftyhere

Squadoosh 1@ATime
It reminds me of the ancient people who would have known nothing about technology so they described what they witnessed using primitive references.
The scriptures read as if they're describing what we today would know as a UFO or rocket ship.
Fire, loud thunderous noise, smoke. Descending in fire atop Si'nai. The landing of a ship with it's after burners firing and the smoke that would erupt from that.

Lot's of interesting things found in ancient ruins that shouldn't be there given the timeline and evolution of that particular culture at the time glyphs, etc... were said to be carved.

Pyramid in Egypt Giza Plateau - Abydos.

heiroceiling.gif




hieroplanes.gif
 

The Fog Horn

Active Member
So funny. Why do people look for the totally ludicrous scenario when the blatantly obvious is staring them in the face?

Are all religious references to 'mountains of fire' actually references to alien landings or is it just the Abrahamic one you've singled out?

Do alien landings also cause fire and brimsone to be shot out from the mountain of fire, brimstone being volcanic sulfur?

Do alien landings also create rivers of fire to come down the mountain and eat up everything in their path?

Ancient people who would have known nothing about VOLCANOES so they described what they witnessed using primitive references AND athropomorphism.

Why is that so unthinkable? Why turn a blind eye to the most likely scenario? How many alien landings have we had to deal with and how many of them perched on the top of a mountain? How come, if this was an alien landing, did ALL the alien spaceships land on the top of mountains?

Deut 33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

Were these alien spaceships space hoppers?

'rose up from' meaning erupted. 'shined from' meaning erupted. 'saints' meaning flaming lava vents, flaming gas leaks, etc.
 
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PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
(I notice I have been ninja'd. Nevermind, I shall be funnier!)
It reminds me of the ancient people who would have known nothing about technology so they described what they witnessed using primitive references.
The scriptures read as if they're describing what we today would know as a UFO or rocket ship.
Fire, loud thunderous noise, smoke. Descending in fire atop Si'nai. The landing of a ship with it's after burners firing and the smoke that would erupt from that.
parker-selfridge-263-image.jpg

What have you people been smoking?!
You really think that aliens powerful enough to traverse trillions of miles just to get here would be overt and flashy enough to show us their spaceships and grant "miracles", for... what? When you have that scale of technology, you don't care about a few tribes of desert-dwelling nomads having a petty squabble, or about their opinions of you. Reality isn't a clap-your-hands-if-you-believe thing where sheer faith gets anything done. Any aliens who would even bother falling down our gravity well would dive in, get what they came for, and leave - and there's nothing they can acquire that they couldn't find elsewhere in the solar system easier. In the absurd situation they actually care about us, they'd probably offer more overt and effective miracles, rather than Yahweh's conjuring of cheap tricks.

(Anyone who can identify the man in the photo gets free frubals. :p)
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
(I notice I have been ninja'd. Nevermind, I shall be funnier!)

parker-selfridge-263-image.jpg

What have you people been smoking?!
You really think that aliens powerful enough to traverse trillions of miles just to get here would be overt and flashy enough to show us their spaceships and grant "miracles", for... what? When you have that scale of technology, you don't care about a few tribes of desert-dwelling nomads having a petty squabble, or about their opinions of you. Reality isn't a clap-your-hands-if-you-believe thing where sheer faith gets anything done. Any aliens who would even bother falling down our gravity well would dive in, get what they came for, and leave - and there's nothing they can acquire that they couldn't find elsewhere in the solar system easier. In the absurd situation they actually care about us, they'd probably offer more overt and effective miracles, rather than Yahweh's conjuring of cheap tricks.

(Anyone who can identify the man in the photo gets free frubals. :p)

From "Avatar", name started with a G IIRC... God what was it though.

Um. I attempted? :eek:


EDIT: No, that's the actor's name, the character's name I completely forgot.
 

somethingNiftyhere

Squadoosh 1@ATime
Using the term, ludicrous scenario in the same breath as defending Biblical scripture is just a tad bit ironic.
Especially when scripture describes a God that gave birth to himself through a virgin, and as that creator spirit had then become an anthropomorphic being in the form of a Jew walking around earth committed for a little over 30 years to an earthly ministry, suffered on cross, died, was laid to rest in a tomb, rose from the dead and walked around for over 30 days showing everyone he had conquered death but never made a stroll into the Hebrew Temple so as to confront the very Pharisee's that condemned him as a blasphemer. Ascended bodily into heaven after promising that generation that witnessed all this would not pass away before he descended to earth so as to make his kingdom known and banish the lord of the earth, the Satan he created in his God form, so that the Devil would no longer reign on earth and entice human natural born sinners to indulge in their God given yet condemned carnal nature.

So that all sorts of iconography and fresco's relating imagery depicting UFO's is just silly in comparison to the very serious nature of all that other stuff.

Must be a hoax given all the flying aircraft in the 14th century.

The Crucifixion - 1350 Fresco located above the altar ;f the Visoki Decani Monestary in Kosovo
180195_UFO-JesusChrist-aliensChristianReligion_jpg06178ca2adfccde450d869e17a221a89


180196_UFO-picture-aliens-Christian-artChristianReligion_jpgee3183d1c772c4b1902ebf86a3263404






The Annunciation" by Carlo Crivelli,
National Gallery, London.
180192_Christian-art-UFO-baptismofJesusChristChristianReligion_jpgd3886d3462673ec07ee6766ab29faa6f



The Madonna with Saint Giovannino dated 15th century

180187_Christian-art-MadonnaChristianReligion_jpge8be1bca631339a3d9da670fc851e9a6


180188_Christian-art-Madonna-UFO-detailChristianReligion_jpgfe12727a50e6c265fa217f62386c4865


"The Miracle of the Snow", by Masolino Da Panicale (1383-1440)
Church of Santa Maria Maggiore, Florence, Italy.

180186_Christian-art-Jesus-MaryChristianReligion_jpg5c4b00445d1e2415127add1d63be49be

180189_Christian-art-Mother-Mary-AnnunciationChristianReligion_jpg5663e38fdfdf9272842102fce7fb88ad
 

The Fog Horn

Active Member
Using the term, ludicrous scenario in the same breath as defending Biblical scripture is just a tad bit ironic.
Especially when scripture describes a God that gave birth to himself through a virgin, and as that creator spirit had then become an anthropomorphic being in the form of a Jew walking around earth committed for a little over 30 years to an earthly ministry, suffered on cross, died, was laid to rest in a tomb, rose from the dead and walked around for over 30 days showing everyone he had conquered death but never made a stroll into the Hebrew Temple so as to confront the very Pharisee's that condemned him as a blasphemer. Ascended bodily into heaven after promising that generation that witnessed all this would not pass away before he descended to earth so as to make his kingdom known and banish the lord of the earth, the Satan he created in his God form, so that the Devil would no longer reign on earth and entice human natural born sinners to indulge in their God given yet condemned carnal nature.

So that all sorts of iconography and fresco's relating imagery depicting UFO's is just silly in comparison to the very serious nature of all that other stuff.

Must be a hoax given all the flying aircraft in the 14th century.

The Crucifixion - 1350 Fresco located above the altar ;f the Visoki Decani Monestary in Kosovo
180195_UFO-JesusChrist-aliensChristianReligion_jpg06178ca2adfccde450d869e17a221a89


180196_UFO-picture-aliens-Christian-artChristianReligion_jpgee3183d1c772c4b1902ebf86a3263404






The Annunciation" by Carlo Crivelli,
National Gallery, London.
180192_Christian-art-UFO-baptismofJesusChristChristianReligion_jpgd3886d3462673ec07ee6766ab29faa6f



The Madonna with Saint Giovannino dated 15th century

180187_Christian-art-MadonnaChristianReligion_jpge8be1bca631339a3d9da670fc851e9a6


180188_Christian-art-Madonna-UFO-detailChristianReligion_jpgfe12727a50e6c265fa217f62386c4865


"The Miracle of the Snow", by Masolino Da Panicale (1383-1440)
Church of Santa Maria Maggiore, Florence, Italy.

180186_Christian-art-Jesus-MaryChristianReligion_jpg5c4b00445d1e2415127add1d63be49be

180189_Christian-art-Mother-Mary-AnnunciationChristianReligion_jpg5663e38fdfdf9272842102fce7fb88ad


I'm talking about the Old Testament. Do you believe that all sacred texts of other volcano cults were totally fabricated too or is it just the Yahweh story? According to your analysis, there is no such thing as volcano cult text or existing story. Maybe you even believe that the Pele texts are totally fabricated....myths....and not based on the reality of volcano worship....there was no volcano, the ancients did not sacrifice animals to a volcano, etc, etc. Nope....it was all made up.
 

Reptillian

Hamburgler Extraordinaire
I prefer to think that God is a fire breathing dragon.

As for aliens, maybe they'd be the equivalent of teenagers borrowing dad's galactic cruiser to buzz planet's with prespacefaring intelligent life on them and perform miracles. Perhaps it's the alien equivalent of cow tipping.
 

somethingNiftyhere

Squadoosh 1@ATime
I'm talking about the Old Testament. Do you believe that all sacred texts of other volcano cults were totally fabricated too or is it just the Yahweh story? According to your analysis, there is no such thing as volcano cult text or existing story. Maybe you even believe that the Pele texts are totally fabricated....myths....and not based on the reality of volcano worship....there was no volcano, the ancients did not sacrifice animals to a volcano, etc, etc. Nope....it was all made up.
You began this thread with references from the Christian Bible and now you're making accusations regarding an implication that my remarks toward those OP scriptures are somehow implying allusion to fabrication of Pele texts?

Please excerpt the copy and then paste from any of my replies in this thread language wherein I said there is no such thing as volcano cult text or existing story.

Thank you.
 

The Fog Horn

Active Member
I prefer to think that God is a fire breathing dragon.

As for aliens, maybe they'd be the equivalent of teenagers borrowing dad's galactic cruiser to buzz planet's with prespacefaring intelligent life on them and perform miracles. Perhaps it's the alien equivalent of cow tipping.

People do tend to believe what they want to believe rather than the glaringly obvious.

How many fire breathing dragons do you know? How many of them reside inside mountains of fire? How many could be described as a 'Rock'? How many spew out brimstone (volcanic sulfur)? How many produce lightning in thick smoke clouds, as do volcanoes?
 

The Fog Horn

Active Member
You began this thread with references from the Christian Bible and now you're making accusations regarding an implication that my remarks toward those OP scriptures are somehow implying allusion to fabrication of Pele texts?

Please excerpt the copy and then paste from any of my replies in this thread language wherein I said there is no such thing as volcano cult text or existing story.

Thank you.

I'm referring to the god of the ancient Hebrews from the Hebrew Bible. Did the ancient Hebrews have anything to do with Jesus? No, so why even mention him or even the NT? You are aware that there is a Hebrew Bible aren't you? I'm only interested in the origins of the religion. Whatever happened later on was based on the origins and, if I am correct, they are therefore based on volcano worship. They are, therefore, irrelevant.

You are denying that the OT texts could possibly be based on actual events. Does that mean you also deny the sacred texts of Pele worship are also not based on any actual events? Are all sacred texts purely mythological? Is there any sacred text refering to volcano worship that you approve of?
 

Shuddhasattva

Well-Known Member
I'm referring to the god of the ancient Hebrews from the Hebrew Bible. Did the ancient Hebrews have anything to do with Jesus? No, so why even mention him or even the NT? You are aware that there is a Hebrew Bible aren't you? I'm only interested in the origins of the religion. Whatever happened later on was based on the origins and, if I am correct, they are therefore based on volcano worship. They are, therefore, irrelevant.

You are denying that the OT texts could possibly be based on actual events. Does that mean you also deny the sacred texts of Pele worship are also not based on any actual events? Are all sacred texts purely mythological? Is there any sacred text refering to volcano worship that you approve of?

Wutchu talkin' bout Willis?
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
Holy smoke!!!!!

I thought I'd share this drawing, which I did last night. I hope you like it. I will do more soon. More images of Mount Sinai, in its full GLORY, can be seen here...

Exodus 19:16 On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled.

Exodus 19:18 And mount Si'nai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire.

Exodus 20:18And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 21And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

Exodus 24:17 To the Israelites the glory of the LORD looked like a consuming fire on top of the mountain.

Deut 33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

'rose up from' meaning erupted. 'shined from' meaning erupted. 'saints' meaning flaming lava vents, flaming gas leaks, etc.

Wow. This is really over-literalizing.

This kind of language is imagery. It is not meant to be taken so literally.

Descriptions of revelations are attempts to put into words experiences for which human language has no adequate terminology. So metaphors are used, poetic images, analogies, a whole bunch of literary and mystical devices, even synesthetic descriptions. The whole idea is transcend the over-literalism of rationality in order to catch a glimpse of the overpowering nature of the arational experience of revelation.

Rabbi Moshe Adler, one of my favorite modern teachers of Torah, once said that the nature of revelation dictates that while the imagery used in Exodus no doubt conveys important resonances, it is just as likely that, were others there to watch the Jewish People receiving revelation, it might well have appeared to them like a gathering of many thousands of people ringed around a mountain, standing silently, with eyes glazed or closed.

The point of the story is the revelation-- not the "special effects" of the manifestations of God's presence in the physical realm, if indeed there were such "special effects," but the content of the revelation: the covenant of Torah. Getting caught up in literalizing the imagery is just missing the point.
 

The Fog Horn

Active Member
Wow. This is really over-literalizing.

This kind of language is imagery. It is not meant to be taken so literally.

Descriptions of revelations are attempts to put into words experiences for which human language has no adequate terminology. So metaphors are used, poetic images, analogies, a whole bunch of literary and mystical devices, even synesthetic descriptions. The whole idea is transcend the over-literalism of rationality in order to catch a glimpse of the overpowering nature of the arational experience of revelation.

Rabbi Moshe Adler, one of my favorite modern teachers of Torah, once said that the nature of revelation dictates that while the imagery used in Exodus no doubt conveys important resonances, it is just as likely that, were others there to watch the Jewish People receiving revelation, it might well have appeared to them like a gathering of many thousands of people ringed around a mountain, standing silently, with eyes glazed or closed.

The point of the story is the revelation-- not the "special effects" of the manifestations of God's presence in the physical realm, if indeed there were such "special effects," but the content of the revelation: the covenant of Torah. Getting caught up in literalizing the imagery is just missing the point.

Those rabbis are good at keeping the minds under control.

So you're saying that the Hebrews watched Yahweh sitting/standing on the top of a 'mountain of fire' and, due to Yahweh reeling off a load of laws, the congregation decided to describe the law giving in very specific volcanic terms? Doesn't that sound a bit odd to you? Why volcanism?

If what you're saying is correct :facepalm: how can you de-mystify the fact the Hebrews were told to not go up or touch the mountain? They would 'surely be shot through' apparently. So, the mountain is too hot to touch and it shoots out brimstone. What on earth does that have to do with law giving? Have you ever heard of a government shooting out balls of flaming brimstone while presenting new laws to the public? Can you imagine if today's journalists used volcanism when talking about politics? Ok, maybe they could use it metaphorically but not to such a degree it sets the entire scene and adds in totally irrelevant things. That would make for seriously bad journalism and the readers would be seriously confused. What's the reality behind the supposed metaphor of not touching a mountain of fire? If you are right and it was purely metaphorical, decode the metaphor for me.

You see, I think your rabbi is either horrible delluded (those in it the most are always the least able to recognise the truth) or he is a liar.

The Exodus volcanism is not metaphorical at all. It is not poetic. Anyone who claims otherwise is kidding themselves, unless they've never appreciated metaphors or read poetry. It's the worst example of metaphorical poetry if it is metaphorical poetry, that is for sure.

They say it's metaphorical because the last thing they want you to do is read it literally.....looking for the reality....which is so easy to do it is unbelievable. :cover:
 
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Vultar

Active Member
There is some reality at the root of most myths. The reality is just not near as exciting....
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
" Why is god said to have smoke coming out of his nostrils?"

You tell us. You seem to be the only one saying it. :shrug:
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
Those rabbis are good at keeping the minds under control.

As a rabbi, I find that remark offensive.

So you're saying that the Hebrews watched Yahweh sitting/standing on the top of a 'mountain of fire' and, due to Yahweh reeling off a load of laws, the congregation decided to describe the law giving in very specific volcanic terms? Doesn't that sound a bit odd to you? Why volcanism?

Because it's not volcanism, and the covenant is more than just a recitation of laws.

You are choosing to read the descriptions-- in translation, by the way, not even in the original-- as descriptions of volcanism, and therefore that is what you see. If you read the account contextually, seeing how the Biblical authors were accustomed to employ imagery and idiom in their poetic style, and you understand that fire was very frequently a metaphor for power or for sanctity, you can see that it is not necessarily a literal account.

The establishment of the covenant is about God and the Jewish People establishing a permanent relationship with one another. It is an experience of spiritual and metaphysical power. Even the laws themselves are more than just lists of legislation, they are spiritual, moral, and mystical foundations for Jews to live lives that bring them closer to God.

In any case, though it may be beside the point, it's probably also worth noting that there are no volcanoes anywhere in the Sinai wilderness. If I recall right, the only volcanoes thought to have erupted within human history anywhere close to there are in Saudi Arabia and in Syria, unless you want to go all the way to the Greek islands.

If what you're saying is correct how can you de-mystify the fact the Hebrews were told to not go up or touch the mountain? They would 'surely be shot through' apparently.

They wouldn't be "shot through." They would be overcome by the divine presence. The danger was not physical. Human beings do not have the capacity to have unfiltered and direct interaction with God's presence in intense manifestation. The boundary was for our own protection from something that would not at all have been apparent-- such as physical phenomena.

So, the mountain is too hot to touch and it shoots out brimstone. What on earth does that have to do with law giving? Have you ever heard of a government shooting out balls of flaming brimstone while presenting new laws to the public? Can you imagine if today's journalists used volcanism when talking about politics? Ok, maybe they could use it metaphorically but not to such a degree it sets the entire scene and adds in totally irrelevant things. That would make for seriously bad journalism and the readers would be seriously confused. What's the reality behind the supposed metaphor of not touching a mountain of fire? If you are right and it was purely metaphorical, decode the metaphor for me.

Again, this is not about governments, politics, or regular law giving. This was about metaphysical and spiritual bonding, and the mystical creation of a holy way of life.

The mountain was not literally hot or shooting out brimstone: it was too holy for most people to be in sustained and unmediated contact with it while God's presence was manifesting there.

The fire and lightning and whatnot are images of natural power, to remind us that the God whom we covenanted with is the Creator of the universe.

You see, I think your rabbi is either horrible delluded (those in it the most are always the least able to recognise the truth) or he is a liar.

Actually, he seems to be neither. He seems to be thoughtful, sensitive, spiritual, imaginative, creative, and pluralistic. As opposed, for example, to your reading and defense of it, which seem simplistic, reductive, unimaginative and un-creative, contemptuous, and condescending.

The Exodus volcanism is not metaphorical at all. It is not poetic. Anyone who claims otherwise is kidding themselves, unless they've never appreciated metaphors or read poetry. It's the worst example of metaphorical poetry if it is metaphorical poetry, that is for sure.

First of all, you cannot judge, since you have not read the account in the original, and in context, with comprehension of how Biblical poetry and Jewish theological language work.

Second of all, you have no basis for saying that it is not poetry: it may not be poetry you appreciate, but that is a subjective aesthetic judgment.

They say it's metaphorical because the last thing they want you to do is read it literally.....looking for the reality....which is so easy to do it is unbelievable.

I honestly don't know which is more problematic: the fact that your relentless literalism implies that the Biblical authors were singularly incapable of complex and creative thought about spirituality, or the unremitting contempt you seem to have for the Hebrew Scriptures, the people who wrote them, and the people who hold them sacred.

In either case, it seems to me that your experience of reading the Hebrew scriptures might benefit from both further study and from a little more use of imagination.
 
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