Why is god said to have smoke coming out of his nostrils?

[somethingNiftyhere]

Why is god said to have smoke coming out of his nostrils?

If this was suppose to refer to a volcano god would have to have smoke coming out of his head. Because volcano's spew from their top.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Levite.

What is brimstone?

P.s. Mt Sinai was not in the Sinai Peninsular, the Peninsular named after the mountain and not the other way around. It was probably in NW Saudi or Jordan.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Brimstone....

Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Psalm 11:6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

Ezekiel 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

Job 18:15 It shall dwell in his tabernacle, because it is none of his: brimstone shall be scattered upon his habitation.

Isaiah 34:9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.


If there is a problem in translation then please point it out.

What is brimstone Levite?

 

[The Fog Horn]

If this was suppose to refer to a volcano god would have to have smoke coming out of his head. Because volcano's spew from their top.

It's always important to remember there was no man living inside the top of the volcano. The ancient Hebrews just thought there was. They didn't think he was the volcano; they thought the volcano was his 'abode'. That way of thinking was common amongst volcano worshipping cults. The Mayans also believed one of their gods, or their god, lived in the summit of volcanoes.

Do you have a hole in your heard where smoke could escape?

Psalm 18

From his temple he heard my voice; (Volcanic temple)
my cry came before him, into his ears.
7 The earth trembled and quaked,
and the foundations of the mountains shook;
they trembled because he was angry. (No, they trembled because a volcano was blowing its top)
8 Smoke rose from his nostrils;
consuming fire came from his mouth,
burning coals blazed out of it. 9

12 Out of the brightness of his presence
clouds advanced,
with hailstones and bolts of lightning.
13 The LORD thundered from heaven;
the voice of the Most High resounded.
14 He shot his arrows and scattered the enemy,
with great bolts of lightning he routed them.
15 The valleys of the sea were exposed
and the foundations of the earth laid bare
at your rebuke, LORD,
at the blast of breath from your nostrils.

Som smoke coming out of his nostrils, fire coming out of his mouth....

A very confused as well as supersticious lot. But, then, they didn't have the foggiest what volcanoes were. How could we expect ancients to view them any differently? It was only in the last couple of hundred years that we began to understand them and Hindus STILL throw chickens into them to appease them. Of course, Jews still slaughter chickens needlessly and Muslims still slaughter lambs....but they are so disconnected from the origins of their faith they are unaware they are appeasing a volcano god.

 

[Levite]

What is brimstone?

You know what brimstone is. What I don't know is what brimstone has to do with Mount Sinai. I don't recall the word being used in either the Exodus or Deuteronomy accounts.

P.s. Mt Sinai was not in the Sinai Peninsular, the Peninsular named after the mountain and not the other way around. It was probably in NW Saudi or Jordan.

I have heard some scholars opine it might be as far north and east as Jordan; I have never heard an argument for Saudi Arabia. Since Jordan already seems like a stretch to me, I would want to see pretty convincing evidence for Saudi Arabia, since there is no other evidence that Jews were ever there prior to the Exiles.

 

[The Fog Horn]

You know what brimstone is. What I don't know is what brimstone has to do with Mount Sinai. I don't recall the word being used in either the Exodus or Deuteronomy accounts.




I have heard some scholars opine it might be as far north and east as Jordan; I have never heard an argument for Saudi Arabia. Since Jordan already seems like a stretch to me, I would want to see pretty convincing evidence for Saudi Arabia, since there is no other evidence that Jews were ever there prior to the Exiles.

You can't bring yourself to say it can you? In your desperate attempt to avoid this issue, you are even now trying to minimise the damage by saying the B word was not used in Exodus at Mt Sinai.

Brimstone.....

Brimstone is an alternative name for sulfur. On Earth, elemental sulfur can be found near hot springs and volcanic regions in many parts of the world.

Fire and brimstone (or, alternatively, brimstone and fire, translated from the Hebrew גפרית וא&#1513 is an idiomatic expression of signs of God's wrath in the Hebrew Bible

"Brimstone," possibly the ancient name for sulfur,[1] evokes the acrid odor of volcanic activity. wikipedia.

Exodus 19:12-13 Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death. 13 there shall not a hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live.

Shot through with what? What mountain of fire produces smoke, rumbles of thunder, lightning, a trumpet blast noise AND shoots at people???

What kind of god is that? Shooting at people???


There is no evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews in the Sinai and lots of people have been looking for some for a long time. How many people have scoured the deserts of Saudi looking for Jewish artifacts? This theory is in its infancy. Lord, oops, volcano only knows what will be revealed in time.

 

[Levite]

You can't bring yourself to say it can you? In your desperate attempt to avoid this issue, you are even now trying to minimise the damage by saying the B word was not used in Exodus at Mt Sinai.

Brimstone.....

Brimstone is an alternative name for sulfur. On Earth, elemental sulfur can be found near hot springs and volcanic regions in many parts of the world.

Fire and brimstone (or, alternatively, brimstone and fire, translated from the Hebrew גפרית וא&#1513 is an idiomatic expression of signs of God's wrath in the Hebrew Bible

"Brimstone," possibly the ancient name for sulfur,[1] evokes the acrid odor of volcanic activity. wikipedia.

Exodus 19:12-13 Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death. 13 there shall not a hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live.

Shot through with what? What mountain of fire produces smoke, rumbles of thunder, lightning, a trumpet blast noise AND shoots at people???

What kind of god is that? Shooting at people???


There is no evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews in the Sinai and lots of people have been looking for some for a long time. How many people have scoured the deserts of Saudi looking for Jewish artifacts? This theory is in its infancy. Lord, oops, volcano only knows what will be revealed in time.

"Brimstone" or גפרית is never mentioned during the account of Sinai. Not once. "Fire" (א&#1513 is mentioned, but it is not equivalent with brimstone-- it is a different phenomenon, used independently far more frequently than in conjunction with brimstone.

You are inventing details not even in the text.

As for the verses you cited, you are grossly misconstruing, if not mistranslating them. Verses 19:12-13 read

והגבלת את־העם סביב לאמר השמרו לכם עלות בהר ונגע בקצהו כל־הנגע בהר מות יומת׃ לא־תגע בו יד כי־סקול יסקל או־ירה יירה אם־בהמה אם־איש לא יחיה במשך היבל המה יעלו בהר׃
"You must establish boundaries for the people all about, saying to them, 'Be careful of ascending the mountain or even touching the edges of it; any who touch the mountain must be put to death. Do not touch it physically: you must stone or shoot with arrows any who do so, beast or man-- they are not to live.' When the horn sounds long, then they may ascend the mountain."

The boundaries at the base of the mountain are not self-enforced: they are enforced by the posting of watch parties and sentry archers. Nor are they permanent: the people are permitted to ascend the mountain as soon as the full manifestation of the divine presence lifts from it, which will be announced by a certain blast on the horn.

If you are going to attempt to draw conclusions from reading Biblical text, you should at least read the text correctly. If you are going to presume to dictate the literal meaning of the text, you should at least have read the text in the original and understood it correctly.

The issue is not whether you can take the poetic details ascribed to the revelation at Sinai and get them to fit your idea of a volcanic eruption. The issue is that that is one way to read the text: it is not the only way, nor by any means "the correct way." And it is, to be clear, not a particularly useful reading: it lacks imagination, it lacks creativity, it lacks spiritual and moral relevance, and it lacks inspiration. It is reductive and simplistic, petty and free of nuance. And that would be if it were a serious and careful reading of the text: but it is not even that. You have not read the text in the original. You have not translated it accurately. You have misconstrued the translation you have. And you have done so in service of an absurdly eisegetic and disrespectful notion.

I honestly don't know whether it is more offensive to me as a Jew or as a professional scholar of Jewish literature.

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

I would agree that scripture does describe what we know to be a volcanic eruption.

And indeed I have also heard that Hindu's tend to still throw live chickens into the volcano's so as to appease the god living there. Poor chickens! Suffering like that because people aren't any smarter than to know better by now.
Amazing! Truly. What then are Vulcanologist's doing in the minds of folks that think like that?

It's always important to remember there was no man living inside the top of the volcano. The ancient Hebrews just thought there was. They didn't think he was the volcano; they thought the volcano was his 'abode'. That way of thinking was common amongst volcano worshipping cults. The Mayans also believed one of their gods, or their god, lived in the summit of volcanoes.

Do you have a hole in your heard where smoke could escape?

Psalm 18

From his temple he heard my voice; (Volcanic temple)
my cry came before him, into his ears.
7 The earth trembled and quaked,
and the foundations of the mountains shook;
they trembled because he was angry. (No, they trembled because a volcano was blowing its top)
8 Smoke rose from his nostrils;
consuming fire came from his mouth,
burning coals blazed out of it. 9

12 Out of the brightness of his presence
clouds advanced,
with hailstones and bolts of lightning.
13 The LORD thundered from heaven;
the voice of the Most High resounded.
14 He shot his arrows and scattered the enemy,
with great bolts of lightning he routed them.
15 The valleys of the sea were exposed
and the foundations of the earth laid bare
at your rebuke, LORD,
at the blast of breath from your nostrils.

Som smoke coming out of his nostrils, fire coming out of his mouth....

A very confused as well as supersticious lot. But, then, they didn't have the foggiest what volcanoes were. How could we expect ancients to view them any differently? It was only in the last couple of hundred years that we began to understand them and Hindus STILL throw chickens into them to appease them. Of course, Jews still slaughter chickens needlessly and Muslims still slaughter lambs....but they are so disconnected from the origins of their faith they are unaware they are appeasing a volcano god.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If you are going to attempt to draw conclusions from reading Biblical text, you should at least read the text correctly. If you are going to presume to dictate the literal meaning of the text, you should at least have read the text in the original and understood it correctly.

Why must you always take the fun out of everything?

 

[PolyHedral]

The boundaries at the base of the mountain are not self-enforced: they are enforced by the posting of watch parties and sentry archers. Nor are they permanent: the people are permitted to ascend the mountain as soon as the full manifestation of the divine presence lifts from it, which will be announced by a certain blast on the horn.

To be honest, I find this is a very bizarre state of affairs regardless of what's actually at the top of the mountain. (And IMO fits the model of a man-behind-the-curtain God better than a genuinely supernaturally powerful one)

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

Originally Posted by Levite
If you are going to attempt to draw conclusions from reading Biblical text, you should at least read the text correctly. If you are going to presume to dictate the literal meaning of the text, you should at least have read the text in the original and understood it correctly.

What would really be the fun of it is if rather than just say something like that, those who presumably know the original text would post it so as to support their point. And in turn perhaps assist those who do not know the original text.
Otherwise, the criticism is devoid of any merit save to insult someone's sincere attempt at opening dialog on a subject of interest.

 

[Levite]

What would really be the fun of it is if rather than just say something like that, those who presumably know the original text would post it so as to support their point. And in turn perhaps assist those who do not know the original text.
Otherwise, the criticism is devoid of any merit save to insult someone's sincere attempt at opening dialog on a subject of interest.

I did so. In my last post, I posted the original Hebrew of two of the key verses in question, with a better translation.

But I cannot be responsible for trying to encapsulate a whole educational experience of text, language, and tradition in an online discussion thread. The OP must take some responsibility to educate himself.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Spoof commentary of imaginery third party with multiple personality disorder....

Exodus 20:18And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

Smoking mountain? Hmmm....tough one that one. What the hell could a smoking mountain be? Thunders and lightning....yes, both common during eruptions. Trumpet blast? Ok, so volcanoes make trumpet sounds due to the magma shooting up the chamber just like blowing into a horn.....but I can't possibly admit to not being in the know. What?!! Are you crazy? I need more evidence.

Exodus 20:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

'Thick darkness'. Getting closer....getting hotter!!! I need more evidence though as I'm living in a bubble that suits my lifestyle and my wardrobe of clothes would be good for nothing if my bubble burst.

Exodus 20:24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen.

Gross! Choppy choppy! Ok, so volcano cults set up altars at the base of volcanoes and proceed to slit lots of throats and do lots of blood letting. Isn't the wine in church a symbol of blood? Aren't the candles symbols of fire on the altar? It's just too gross to acknowledge. I need more evidence!

Exodus 19:16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

Thunder...check. Lightning.....check...thick cloud on top of mountain....double check. Trumpet sound......check. Frightening.....check. But I don't WANT to believe it! I'd be ordinary like everyone else if I did. I haven't got a clue how to be ordinary. Do they do classes? I need more evidence!!!

Exodus 19:18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. 19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder

Smoke everywhere! Oh Lord, what kind of god lives in a mountain covered in smoke??! The smoke of a furnace??? Like loads of thick smoke going up in a 'column of smoke'? Ok, that column of smoke is remeniscent of the column of smoke that the Hebrews walked towards when they left Egypt. That column looked like fire at night and smoke by day. Hmmmm...... Ok, I'd be a damn fool to deny it but I'd rather be a fool than accept it because if I accept it I will have to do something about it and I'm sooo scared!!! I've not changed my mind on anything since I decided I did in fact like sprouts. I need more evidence!

Exodus 24:
15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.
16 And the glory of the Lord abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.
17 And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

Oh holy smoke!!! God's glory is fire??? The glory of god is lava coming out of a volcano? Are you telling me that all I need to enjoy a bit of divine glory is to gaze at the one bar fire in my bathroom with the lights off? Hey, you know what, I've done that and it does make you go kinda glazed and wooey. I'm buying a THREE bar fire today and will have a triple glory fest! Glory glory glory!!! But I still don't buy this volcano god idea because I like to be the first to come up with great ideas and therefore I'm going to scupper your plans and enjoy your suffering. Ha! Ok, show me one more bit of juicy evidence and you might just sway my stubborn butt.

Exodus 34:29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. 30.And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him. 33.And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.

2 Corinthians 3:13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away.

He was staring at a three bar fire on the top of the mountain and knew he was being naughty so covered it up with a pashmina! I know how rosie it makes your cheeks! I look like a trannie after I do it. Ha...you thought you were so clever with your volcano god idea but all along I had the answer! No....not a volcano, not a spaceship, not a god but a three bar fire!

:rainbow1: