Why is God so stuck on belief?

[Blackdog22]

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Act 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Now that I have gotten the Biblical proof out of the way I have to wonder. Why does this God being seem to request belief in him? Does he not know he exists? Does he need to be reaffirmed that he exists?

I can't quite figure out why any being would need people to believe he exists so badly whilst giving no evidence for his existence.

Is their anyone else out their that may feel like they need to have people they have never exposed themselves to believe in them? Do you feel like someone in Africa should just believe in you? If they didn't know who you were, because you never showed yourself to them, would you be offended? Wouldn't that seem rather silly?

For me it not only seems silly it seems rather childish for such a God to behave in this manner.

This is one of the many reasons why I can't believe in God.

 

[horizon_mj1]

Let me first say that I am in no way defending the Bible, but am just going to give my opinion on how I understand. The Bible was written by man, some say inspired by God, who themselves held "beliefs" of their own and wrote accordingly. I agree that if being unknown to someone and expecting them to believe in you is quite ridiculous, but at the same time if some kind of communication transpired, it would be just as ridiculous to deny existence of that person. Isn't it a bit more silly of someone who glorifies God or any being they claim to be Divine, would make them look like this? I never understood why people feel the need to make any claims for any such being. I was always taught that being omnipotent meant that there was no necessity for "help" and don't understand why restrictions are placed on God/Gods such as sex, religion of choice, what they can do and when they can do it, etc.

 

[JLord]

The thing is, maybe others are not like me but I don't have a choice over what I believe. My life circumstances and education and upbringing and so on have all caused me to hold certain beliefs based on the evidence available and my brain's capacity to analyze that evidence.

I cannot just tell myself to believe 2+2=5 even if doing so meant some great reward. I could say 2+2=5 and proclaim this as my belief but if god presumably can read our thoughts he would know that I don't actually believe 2+2=5. So if it is on this basis that I go to hell or whatever then it wasn't ever something that has been within my control.

 

[petewentz]

To play Devil's advocate, I would assume that if God did exist, and he did want our love for him(which is in itself an entirely vain premise) he would want his existence to appear vague to his "subjects" so that their belief in him, while illogical, affirms their love for him.

He would know they love him because he knows they don't know he doesn't exist...as convoluted as that sounds. If we knew God existed in all certainty, then it would be stupid not to believe in him, not to love him. Yet, if we don't know he exists absolutely, then our belief in him confirms our love for him.

 

[Father Heathen]

Apparently the abrahamic god has a fragile ego and is very insecure, thus needs constant praise and reassurance.

 

[lunamoth]

Because up until recently (last few hundred years), religious belief was a heart thing, not a head thing. To believe was to belove, to give one's heart to ...

 

[PolyHedral]

Dogmatically speaking it's very easy to understand. If we open ourselves to God and His love, we allow our selves to be Godly people. God doesn't need us. We need Him.

So why doesn't He make it clearer?

 

[sojourner]

The relationship's the thing. As Luna said, it wasn't meant to be a head thing -- it's a heart thing.

 

[Blackdog22]

Because up until recently (last few hundred years), religious belief was a heart thing, not a head thing. To believe was to belove, to give one's heart to ...

So believing that some kid named Kimel in Africa is the same thing as loving him? I don't see the correlation between the two. I can believe in you and hate you, their is a choice. Believing isn't automatically equal to love.

I would also wonder why God gave us a head if all it appears to do is get in the way from this perspective.

 

[lunamoth]

So believing that some kid named Kimel in Africa is the same thing as loving him? I don't see the correlation between the two. I can believe in you and hate you, their is a choice. Believing isn't automatically equal to love.

I would also wonder why God gave us a head if all it appears to do is get in the way from this perspective.

"Belief" today has a much different connotation than it does in the Bible. We are not called to believe in Kimel, but we are called to love him.

 

[sojourner]

So believing that some kid named Kimel in Africa is the same thing as loving him? I don't see the correlation between the two. I can believe in you and hate you, their is a choice. Believing isn't automatically equal to love.

I would also wonder why God gave us a head if all it appears to do is get in the way from this perspective.

Belief as it is used Biblically is a far different thing from believing in empirical fact.

Why would God have given us hearts if we weren't supposed to engage them in this sort of deep relationship?

 

[gzusfrk]

The belief in Jesus starts a reaction in the heart. How could it not?

 

[PolyHedral]

I'm sorry. I need you to be more specific. What doesn't He make clearer?

That He exists. Which version, specifically, of His text(s) He wants you to follow.

The belief in Jesus starts a reaction in the heart. How could it not?

Big Brother loves you too.

 

[PolyHedral]

Why do you expect it to be any different with God?

Because God is an infinitely good communicator. At least, that's what He says.

 

[Penumbra]

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Act 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Now that I have gotten the Biblical proof out of the way I have to wonder. Why does this God being seem to request belief in him? Does he not know he exists? Does he need to be reaffirmed that he exists?

I can't quite figure out why any being would need people to believe he exists so badly whilst giving no evidence for his existence.

Is their anyone else out their that may feel like they need to have people they have never exposed themselves to believe in them? Do you feel like someone in Africa should just believe in you? If they didn't know who you were, because you never showed yourself to them, would you be offended? Wouldn't that seem rather silly?

For me it not only seems silly it seems rather childish for such a God to behave in this manner.

This is one of the many reasons why I can't believe in God.

I think it is people that want others to believe rather than any gods. Gods should be fully capable of leading people to belief if they feel inclined to.

To play Devil's advocate, I would assume that if God did exist, and he did want our love for him(which is in itself an entirely vain premise) he would want his existence to appear vague to his "subjects" so that their belief in him, while illogical, affirms their love for him.

He would know they love him because he knows they don't know he doesn't exist...as convoluted as that sounds. If we knew God existed in all certainty, then it would be stupid not to believe in him, not to love him. Yet, if we don't know he exists absolutely, then our belief in him confirms our love for him.

If a being wishes to be loved, doesn't it make sense to reveal itself so that beings can fall in love with it naturally (or freely reject it if they don't love it)?

And I disagree that if we knew a god existed, we would be stupid not to love him. Love isn't something that can be intellectually chosen. Even if a god is believed in, if it has unattractive characteristics then it would naturally lead to people not loving it.

Somehow I think if gods exist, they have more interesting matters on their minds than the love of humans.

"Belief" today has a much different connotation than it does in the Bible. We are not called to believe in Kimel, but we are called to love him.

How can people be called to love an abstract principle?

What is proposed to be loved, and for what reason?

 

[lunamoth]

How can people be called to love an abstract principle?

What is proposed to be loved, and for what reason?

It appears to me that each of the quotes in the OP and in the example I replied to are about loving people (Jesus, A child in Africa). In places where we are called to love God I understand this to mean seeing myself as at one with God, with and through God seeing myself as one with all people and all creation. This is one way of understanding Agape love, to love others as we love ourselves because we all really are one in God.

 

[petewentz]

As far as I understood it, the question dealt with why GOD wanted us to believe, not why WE want to. I think my answer was satisfactory in a purely religious sense, that if a God did exist, he wouldn't want to make his presence fully known because belief then wouldn't mean anything to him. It would be common sense to believe.

 

[Blackdog22]

As far as I understood it, the question dealt with why GOD wanted us to believe, not why WE want to. I think my answer was satisfactory in a purely religious sense, that if a God did exist, he wouldn't want to make his presence fully known because belief then wouldn't mean anything to him. It would be common sense to believe.

Yes, but my primary concern is why this is such a big deal. For example, when was the last time you got mad at someone for not believing in you? I know that their are people in Africa who don't believe in me, this isn't a big deal to me as they haven't seen me and have no reason to believe in me.

Even if someone I knew face to face said he didn't believe in me I wouldn't care. What would that change? How, exactly, would that be an insult? I know I exist, so why would I care what someone else thought?

This line of thinking, especially coming from a being infinitely more intelligent than I am, makes little to no sense to me.

The idea that those who don't believe would "perish" as the Bible puts it takes this very odd line of thinking and completely throws it out the window of reality.

 

[petewentz]

Yes, but my primary concern is why this is such a big deal. For example, when was the last time you got mad at someone for not believing in you? I know that their are people in Africa who don't believe in me, this isn't a big deal to me as they haven't seen me and have no reason to believe in me.

This line of reasoning is a little skewed, if only in my opinion. People in Africa would have reason to suspect that other people exist in the world, whereas any given human wouldn't have reason to suspect that a supernatural deity exited along side of them, so belief in said deity carries more weight than believing in a (presumably) American man.

This line of thinking, especially coming from a being infinitely more intelligent than I am, makes little to no sense to me.

We are on the same line of reasoning here. A being so omnipotent wouldn't need our devotion, why would he care? Because we are his "children"...that's putting a human spin on a supernatural event, only further proving the idea that religion is man-made.

The idea that those who don't believe would "perish" as the Bible puts it takes this very odd line of thinking and completely throws it out the window of reality.

Agree again. Completely irrational. It also says in the Bible that non-believers should be killed...I don't think I've done anything to warrant a death threat, yet.

 

[Quagmire]

Far as I can tell mine couldn't care less.