Why is God worth worshiping?

[savagewind]

Why is anyone worth respecting?

 

[Stevicus]

Seems to me when astronauts saw Earth from outer space they did Not describe Earth as a 'ball of mud' but a jewel.

Obviously, I was speaking figuratively.

 

[Grandliseur]

Many if not most Christians become offended when told that their god doesn't seem worthy of respect as described in their scriptures.

You are welcome to your opinions whatever they are. I simply do not want to be involved in the 'I say, you say . ..' goings on, and also, the disparaging comments, once this begins, it is downhill at 2 x 9.8m^2.

I don't mind answering things about what I think, believe, up to when it becomes unpleasant. With all the varied opinions, religious and otherwise - a respect for the other person's right to believe whatever they want is needed. This does not mean you accept what other people believe, it means you don't start the name calling, and such. I don't believe in an afterlife, when dead, but many others do -- that's fine with me.

 

[Grandliseur]

Humans wanting to control other humans anf human thought are the only ones who "need" a god to be worshiped.

Disagree on this one. Control beyond what is reasonable is mostly seen in such as NK, China, Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, even GB and Germany committed genocide before 1900, and some of our modern so called democratic rulers who promise the sky and deliver hell. If you have studied history, include the Japanese in this up to the end of WWII. Turkey also committed recent genocide, so in all of the above, God was not needed for humans doing their worst to control others.

Much about laws is to steal and rob the little guy who cannot defend himself. Look at what is going on with the tax people confiscating people's property and money for no good reason at times, and the police robbers. Government is supposed (democratic) to work for the people; instead, the rich are in power and write whatever laws they want, fire people duly elected, and what not. At times, anarchy is indicated, beginning to secede from the big government, but here we have military might that surely shall be brought to bear.

Assassination is surely used by democratic governments to keep the unruly at bay. Too bad we don't have a global group of assassins who would go and finish off the undesirable rulers and powers that be who misuse their powers. It would be nice to clean up all kinds of people in many nations. Personally, I wouldn't mind being reincarnated as an angel of vengeance so as to kill the wicked whether known or unknown. But, that is not what I believe in.

 

[Mohsen]

Hmmm, here goes...

...Worship, supplication and whatever deed is performed for pleasing God, has a direct effect on the person worshipping and society also. In fact these are the highest training and ethics in the school of Islam because the worship of God creates a sense of thankfulness, respect and honour. To realize the value of the source from where man gets the valuable divine blessings is a sign that the person was deserving of them.

Simplified for the sake of staying on topic.

Peace

 

[dfnj]

We're inside a simulated reality, where God is the CPU; if we don't connect to the CPU, the light within us dwindles much quicker, and by recognizing the light within, we have the power to shape our reality.

In my opinion.

Actually, reality is analog not digital. There is nothing about reality at its smallest points of measurement to suggest there is a clock cycle. There is nothing like a Von Neuman architecture because the the memory state of reality is never the same way twice. Reality is constantly evolving to something that never existed before. Also, although the laws of physics follow patterns, there is nothing to suggest there are instruction codons executing changes in reality. Reality is always flowing to the next change without any interruptions.

Here's a really cool video talking about the latest experiments in quantum mechanics and the philosophical implications:

The idea that reality is not realized until the observer is present is so completely different than the way a computer works. It's actually shocking to think it works this way which is so counter to the idea of a clockwork Universe.

What is IT that decides what quantum state is realized?????

 

[dfnj]

Much about laws is to steal and rob the little guy who cannot defend himself. Look at what is going on with the tax people confiscating people's property and money for no good reason at times, and the police robbers. Government is supposed (democratic) to work for the people; instead, the rich are in power and write whatever laws they want, fire people duly elected, and what not. At times, anarchy is indicated, beginning to secede from the big government, but here we have military might that surely shall be brought to bear.

I know some people do not like talking about human psychology when it comes to religion but I read this fascinated treaty on the Metamorphic effect of power. Most studies of psychology concentrate on the worker, consumer, citizen, television viewer, etc. This study was done on people in positions of power. And how the Metamorphic effect of power changes people in positions of leadership. The study kind of proves the old maxim from Lord Acton: "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely." But it is more than just corruption. The Metamorphic effect causes contempt for the person the leader has authority over. Here's how it works. Every time the leader believes, whether true or not, they have successfully influenced someone else, something changes in the mind of the leader. They begin a gradual process of losing respect for the people they have leadership over. They begin to see the people not as equals, but as lesser human beings. The process continues until the subjects are seen as not being human at all but sub-humans. Once the leader see his subjects as sub-humans he then treats his people as worthless ants that can be stepped on or exploited without any moral consequence. The only way to avoid the Metamorphic effect of power is to be aware of it. But even then it just may be a flaw in human nature when it comes to people in positions of authority. The metamorphic effect has to do with power and authority over other people. It has nothing to do with political parties or systems of government.

Assassination is surely used by democratic governments to keep the unruly at bay. Too bad we don't have a global group of assassins who would go and finish off the undesirable rulers and powers that be who misuse their powers. It would be nice to clean up all kinds of people in many nations. Personally, I wouldn't mind being reincarnated as an angel of vengeance so as to kill the wicked whether known or unknown. But, that is not what I believe in.

This is exactly what we have in place now. People aspiring to power wish to dispose the people already in power because it "needs to be done." The World is in a constant effort to "clean up all kinds of people" who need to be removed from power. The problem is the people in power are powerful and hard to remove from power.

 

[dfnj]

We did not need God before He created us. Humans never asked to be created. It's obvious that God (if such a thing even exists) had some "need" to create humans, perhaps because He was bored and wanted something to entertain Himself.

Of course, He provides basic sustenance. If He didn't, then there would be no humans, and then He would be back to square one with nothing to entertain Himself. If it's true that humans "need" God now, it's only because God stacked the deck that way. We never had any choice to begin with.

Assuming that the universe, Earth, and humanity was created by some sentient being, then it's clear that He "needs" something from us. But why does He "deserve" it? He may make a small percentage of people "happy," just like politicians who strive to make 1% of the population happy, while screwing the remainder of humanity, who may only "worship" God because they're victims of some form of Stockholm Syndrome. Maybe that makes God happy, but that would mean He is some sort of abusive tyrant and sadist.

This is a really thoughtful post trying to get at the root of the OP.

 

[Grandliseur]

I know some people do not like talking about human psychology when it comes to religion but I read this fascinated treaty on the Metamorphic effect of power. Most studies of psychology concentrate on the worker, consumer, citizen, television viewer, etc. This study was done on people in positions of power. And how the Metamorphic effect of power changes people in positions of leadership. The study kind of proves the old maxim from Lord Acton: "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely." But it is more than just corruption. The Metamorphic effect causes contempt for the person the leader has authority over. Here's how it works. Every time the leader believes, whether true or not, they have successfully influenced someone else, something changes in the mind of the leader. They begin a gradual process of losing respect for the people they have leadership over. They begin to see the people not as equals, but as lesser human beings. The process continues until the subjects are seen as not being human at all but sub-humans. Once the leader see his subjects as sub-humans he then treats his people as worthless ants that can be stepped on or exploited without any moral consequence. The only way to avoid the Metamorphic effect of power is to be aware of it. But even then it just may be a flaw in human nature when it comes to people in positions of authority. The metamorphic effect has to do with power and authority over other people. It has nothing to do with political parties or systems of government.



This is exactly what we have in place now. People aspiring to power wish to dispose the people already in power because it "needs to be done." The World is in a constant effort to "clean up all kinds of people" who need to be removed from power. The problem is the people in power are powerful and hard to remove from power.

I agree with everything you wrote.

However, with the present computerization of things and big brother watching your every move, those in power get harder and harder to remove. China is a good example of what is happening now in this regard. And, look at NK. One would think that any of the big countries would easily assassinate this piece of sheet over there, but no, that is obviously not true. Other places such as (Kinshasa) Congo suffer from the same problem, as do the Philippines. I am sure that there are many places like that I ignore.

 

[dfnj]

I have no desire to worship even that which I greatly respect or which causes me to experience awe, find no benefit in meditating about what might be true or what makes me tick, I have no sense of a relationship with anything invisible that I haven't met, and have no sense of suffering due to material desire.

Yes, I can call my ruler at any time and get immediate attention. The words aren't audible, but they are distinct and in English.

Maybe you have guessed by now that I am my own ruler. I'm a humanist, and among the values humanists typically respect are autonomy, self-actualization, self-reliance, and recognizing the extent to which we are all responsible for ourselves as well as others.

Christians typically refer to this attitude as trying to make oneself into a god, and mean it in a disparaging sense as if that is an act of rebellion and therefore immoral.

But of course, those aren't the humanist's values. We see the Christian attitude as a type of abdication of the self, which, if I can borrow from the religious lexicon, is the greatest sin - the sin against the self. Above all, to thine own self be true.

I found your post here to be very profound in my mind. There is certainly seems to be an element of "abdication of self" when it comes to the negative connotations of "worshiping" authority.

Everybody has some of their hopes become manifest. I do, and no prayer is involved. I can actually say honestly that there is nothing more I want - just as much of the same as I can have. I find exchanges with theists very productive. It's through such interactions that I have come to understand the various manifestations of faith based thought not visible to me when I was a faith based thinker myself.

I think there is a value in having "faith based thought". The problem is what do you choose to have faith in. If you can curb some of the negative stuff around authoritarianism and the abdication of self then you might have something worth having. I think this is what the OP was getting at. Nobody is against babes eating. But the using the word God to veil the negative stuff around authoritarianism may be a sophisticated way of manipulating people into accepting a monarchy form of government over their own self-interests.

 

[dfnj]

Grandliseur......Thank you for you reply. I guess what troubles me most is the degree to which science and the quest for reality are simply not considered

I have a deep respect for the atheist position. It's logical. It's consistent. But science has NOTHING on religion. An omnipotent God can create the Universe in any amount of time including all the fake carbon dating and fossil evidence. Once you accept the existence of an omnipotent God, science and religion are separate Worlds of thought.

Now why do people have religion at all when science has been so successful in dismissing so many superstitions over the years. Religion has always existed since the beginning of time to answer our big questions about why we are here, what it all means, what is going to happen to us when we die. Science explains how nature behaves. Science has never explained why anything exists at all as opposed to nothing. Science has never explained why nature behaves at all. It's not enough to say electrons move because they are electrons with charge. Having charge is one thing. Performing the laws of physics requires an act of God. So you could easily dismiss this as just more superstitious nonsense. And you may be right. But the fundamental truth of reality remains. Nature is always stranger than anything we could have ever imagined. And God is the force in the Universe that keeps our full understanding of all of nature's behaviors just one step beyond our full comprehension.

, even ignored, within the religious paradigm. An objective, agreed upon reality is neither desired nor sought after, and the purpose of a religion is to achieve specific individualistic abstract goals, such as life everlasting or eternal joy in heaven, within a cultural framework designed to assure solidarity and continuation of the group. Why do religious believers devalue reality so? Is it because religion and reality are inimitable to each other? This is basically the question an atheist would appreciate being confronted as a starting point.

I think scientists and atheists have just substituted the word Time for the word God. Just like God, the idea Time is eternal, Universal, and accepted as real without any shred of evidence. Here is an article on the physics of time explaining why time is imaginary arbitrary concept created in man's minds just like the Flying Spaghetti Monster:

"There Is No Such Thing As Time"

I don't mean to sound disrespectful to you. I just would like you to understand the point of view where theists are coming from. As far as we can tell, or from the theists perspective, there is something nihilistic in the idea the the Universe is just patterns of energy swirling around according to the laws of physics where no pattern is any more meaningful than any other. I don't have a shred of evidence to prove to you everything is NOT meaningless on a cosmic timescale. All I can say in defense of theists is since everything is meaningless, then it is ALSO meaningless that it is meaningless. Well, if it doesn't matter, then WE have to choose which one we believe is true. Theist choose the Universe is meaningful and divine on the cosmic timescale. So please do not ask theists to start from the starting point the atheists and scientists have CHOSEN.

 

[dfnj]

because without god we wouldn't be alive. god created life and we are grateful for this.

Being thankful and worshiping are not the same word. There are other denotative and connotative meanings to the word worship. There is more to worshiping God than just being thankful to God.

 

[dfnj]

I worship God, not because I like God very much and, I think he's very cruel, but without God I was very immature, hedonistic, perverted, angry, insane, irrational, and Confused, and by turning to God, I got a lot better.

I turn to God because I want understanding, maturity, enlightenment, and the ability to suffer through hard times without turning to drugs and alcohol, I badly need God's help for this and God does indeed help

What you are doing is not worshiping.

 

[dfnj]

He gave us life, and the ability to enjoy it.

She not he. There is no way God is a man because women are just way too damn beautiful to be created by a man!

 

[dfnj]

To me the distractions come ' Not from the Creator God of the Universe ' but to understand why the distractions are true is from the ' god ' of this world of badness aka Satan's influence according to 2 Corinthians 4:4; Revelation 12:12,9.
So, I find it is Not religion per say but 'false religion', 'myth religion' which is often taught even in the churches of Christendom (so-called Christian but mostly in name only) which causes the issues.
As 2 Timothy 3:1-5 informs us that people would have a form of being devoted to God but their actions prove them false.
That is often the fault of false-religious teachings and Not just speaking about religion or worship in general - James 1:27.

Anytime people speak with scripture quotes it makes me think they have no idea what they are talking about. The words you quoted could be interpreted a 1000 different ways. You could argue anything anyone says about religion is a false religion. And the only non-false one-true religion is the one each of us talks about.

 

[Spiderman]

What you are doing is not worshiping.

I love God I just don't like how he watches children get raped and tortured and does nothing to help them... scripture says to love God with all your heart. That doesn't mean you have to like him

 

[dfnj]

Opposed to common thought I find that he values my personal freedom and gives unconditional love in spite of my personal failings. My failure does not keep him from loving me.

Just everyone else's belief in God prevents them from loving you.

 

[dfnj]

I love God I just don't like how he watches children get raped and tortured and does nothing to help them... scripture says to love God with all your heart. That doesn't mean you have to like him

I appreciate your point of view. There is just way too much unnecessary evil in the world. Based on human experiments there is no amount of evil God will not tolerate in order to preserve our free-will. This is why I do not think sin is God's responsibility. We create the mess we live in. Justice and absolution is NOT going to come from God. I think it has to come from men. We would not have a justice system in this country if people really had absolute faith in God to carry out eternal damnation justice.

Plus I think there is something just not right in the idea of thinking our God of love is going to carry out our justice by doing something so immoral as the most cruel and unusual punishment possibly conceivable with eternal damnation.

I think you can love God. But I do not think our God is a God of judgment. I think our God is a God who enjoys sharing in our enthusiasm. And our God is genuinely sincere in having empathy with our pains and frustrations. But I think our God of love is infinitely patient in allowing our frustrations and pains to be later used as happiness fuel when we evolve our consciousness to a place of love and forgiveness.

 

[Spiderman]

I appreciate your point of view. There is just way too much unnecessary evil in the world. Based on human experiments there is no amount of evil God will not tolerate in order to preserve our free-will. This is why I do not think sin is God's responsibility. We create the mess we live in. Justice and absolution is NOT going to come from God. I think it has to come from men. We would not have a justice system in this country if people really had absolute faith in God to carry out eternal damnation justice.

Plus I think there is something just not right in the idea of thinking our God of love is going to carry out our justice by doing something so immoral as the most cruel and unusual punishment possibly conceivable with eternal damnation.

I think you can love God. But I do not think our God is a God of judgment. I think our God is a God who enjoys sharing in our enthusiasm. And our God is genuinely sincere in having empathy with our pains and frustrations. But I think our God of love is infinitely patient in allowing our frustrations and pains to be later used as happiness fuel when we evolve our consciousness to a place of love and forgiveness.

I tend to think God is responsible for the mess , because he could enlighten everybody and speak clearly to them and he refuses to do so.

Imagine what the world would look like if all people were enlightened and understood the truth

 

[wizanda]

Actually, reality is analog not digital.

That simplifies what i was talking about back to a mechanical system; there is multiple dimensional mathematical quantum physics, with atomic code on top of that.

Analog and digital store information on something; I'm talking about a whole reality made of consciousness, where vast amounts of data are stored within every quantum.

There is nothing about reality at its smallest points of measurement to suggest there is a clock cycle.

Sorry yet you do realize a CPU is a metaphor for Brahman, God?

Simplifying what I'm saying into being we're in an actual computer is possible; yet not if we start trying to make everything in our prehistoric computers fit within something created within an infinite scope of understanding.

Personally try to look at reality, and understand how is it possible there is such mathematical preciseness, unless there is something mathematically precise orchestrating it to begin.

In my opinion.