Why is God worth worshiping?

[Grandliseur]

Hmmm..... and would you have any evidence that this god exists? And when you say "...we do get his attention to our problem." are you suggesting a cause and effect relationship? Perhaps you are being disrespectful of reality.........

Besides what we consider evidence for our faith, we do indeed get some of our prayers answered. Indeed, many have been and very specifically so. However, we are not helped to a degree where it becomes something atheists cannot deny that we are better off than themselves.

Usually, exchanges with atheists are unproductive, but, if you have questions I feel like answering as I did this one, since it seemed serious, go ahead, and we'll see.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

I answered your questions. I am not debating with atheists. You can practice your belief in your chaos god all you like.
If you have questions that I might be interested in answering, as this one seemed serious, ask - otherwise, stay on your side of your faith in creation by chaos.

Okay. I wanted to understand your perspective. Sorry if my questions made you feel uncomfortable.
EDIT: I am asking serious questions. I want to understand why you made the choice to worship your god. Or even if it was a choice. It's not to annoy you. It is hopefully so that I can better understand why people worship, and if they have given critical thought to it. Maybe I learn something. Maybe you do.
SECOND EDIT: I don't believe in a chaos god. I don't even know what that means. As to your second statement, i did not intend to nor did I actually cross over to your side of belief in non-chaos. Your statement seemed rather aggressive for asking simple questions. I am not here to convert you, though you might think that. I just wanted to understand your perspective.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Peace of Mind.

Awesome. It can get hard to explain why and how you achieve peace of mind through worship, so I won't annoy you for an explanation.

 

[Grandliseur]

Okay. I wanted to understand your perspective. Sorry if my questions made you feel uncomfortable.
EDIT: I am asking serious questions. I want to understand why you made the choice to worship your god. Or even if it was a choice. It's not to annoy you. It is hopefully so that I can better understand why people worship, and if they have given critical thought to it. Maybe I learn something. Maybe you do.

Not uncomfortable. I just don't want to waste my time, and yours. Things usually tend to degrade quickly with atheists.

If you have questions, I don't mind. We feel that archaeology, prophecies, and the witnesses in the Bible give us enough base our beliefs on. When then (personally) one experiences prayers having been answered, faith becomes firmly rooted.

The problem is perspective, and much that we consider evidence, atheists deny. That is fine, but it draws a line across the sand where none can cross from either side.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Not uncomfortable. I just don't want to waste my time, and yours. Things usually tend to degrade quickly with atheists.

Okay, I don't want to waste your time either. And I hope your past experience with atheists doesn't color your perspective of this particular thread and my intentions.

If you have questions, I don't mind. We feel that archaeology, prophecies, and the witnesses in the Bible give us enough base our beliefs on. When then (personally) one experiences prayers having been answered, faith becomes firmly rooted.

Okay, that makes sense. I won't ask you to present evidence or anything. I am convinced you worship god for your own personal reasons, and I respect that. Just wanted to know, that's all.

The problem is perspective, and much that we consider evidence, atheists deny. That is fine, but it draws a line across the sand where none can cross from either side.

I agree about perspective. We all have different standards for evidence. Atheists might be accused of asking for literal evidence, when much of it is experiential and subjective and unexplained. I totally understand and empathize with your point about that. And it does draw a line in the sand, but it doesn't and shouldn't prevent one from understanding the perspective of the other side. We can still disagree with each other, and yet not disparage each other for our beliefs.

 

[Kemosloby]

Hmmm. So if I am understanding you correctly, the very act of worship manifested as singing gospels and being part of a community gives you joy? If so, more power to you. Sing away and spread the joy!

No, I don't think you understand correctly. But you seem eager to dismiss worship. I'll not keep you from it.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

No, I don't think you understand correctly. But you seem eager to dismiss worship. I'll not keep you from it.

Sorry, my post wasn't being sarcastic or dismissive. I am genuinely happy you find joy through worship. I do not want to dismiss worship. I want to understand why people do it. And you've given me your reason. And I'm happy for you. Have a great day!

 

[Kapalika]

Do you worship everything you find awesome?

Worship, etymologically anyway, means to have adoration or deep respect for something. So uh, the answer is yes, at least in that sense of the word.

I should qualify that, however, with the fact that it has to be truly awesome, awe-inspiring. Maybe it's more so that awesome things are the vessel rather than the object. For example a song, while isn't the focus of the sense of reverence, is the vessel through which it is experienced.

So it is and can be with a deity. When I listen to certain types of scales and timbres I focus on them intently as I would when in meditative worship. That auditory experience is the same as a depiction one might worship. Worshiping of physical idols ect is pretty common in Hinduism. I just tend to prefer sound over sight when it comes to most things.

Though this shouldn't be mistaken with just being really into music. Music can be divine in it's own right, but there is something uniquely special to me about contextualizing music into my magical (as in trying to cause changes or reactions), spiritual (as in sense of and nature of one's self) and religious beliefs (the organized, theological aspect). One can have religious music, or spiritual music, or even music meant to have some kind of magical effect. But for me it's the intersection of those 3 that create the kind of sense of divinity found in worship. The music is both the focal point of and the vessel of the worship. Likewise, the deity worshiped is both the vessel and focal point.

I hope that makes sense.

Ah, I see. So you worship god for self-realization? To better yourself? Become one with god? May I ask how worship helps you achieve these goals?

All three. It helps because, being in ignorance, we are unable to conceptualize true nature. The deity is a tool towards that end by personification. I am somewhat partial to Swami Krishnananda's explanation of Ishvaras (divine inspiration) in Yoga. Essentially the metaphor is that a deity is like a lion you see in a dream. The lion can scare you awake. It wasn't real, but none-the-less it had awakened you to the waking world. To me a deity is the intentional use of this metaphorical lion. I view how we perceive and are conscious of ourselves and of the world as much like a dream, although actual dreams are much less 'real' than our world, it's still derived and based off of them. Likewise our world is based on a more clear reality "above" it.

I have a hunch though that the difference is less spectacular from our world and this higher world than it is our world and the dream world, however. In Trika, we believe that the physical world is concrete and so we differ than this from many other kinds of Hindus.

In literal dreams we can respond to real life stimuli which affect the dream in illogical ways (there is some research on this but if you've ever woken up and realized a noise or breeze made you dream something you know what I mean). I think in our waking world we likewise react to the realest stimuli but that it's filtered through our limited perception and has a direct logical connection rather than the more non-sequitor that waking-world stimuli can cause in literal dreams. So the relation between these layered worlds might be more exponential rather than linear.

 

[Grandliseur]

I agree about perspective. We all have different standards for evidence. Atheists might be accused of asking for literal evidence, when much of it is experiential and subjective and unexplained. I totally understand and empathize with your point about that. And it does draw a line in the sand, but it doesn't and shouldn't prevent one from understanding the perspective of the other side.

You sound as if you might be worth an exchange.
For example, we have in Arabia, evidence of the nation of Israel - the altar of the calf worship that Israel committed a sin with, we have Solomon's pillars (one left, Saudis removed the other one on their side once they found out what it was) that commemorated the crossing, we have the altars of Israel on the two mountain sides when they entered the promised land, and the place where the Tabernacle resided for a long period with animal sacrificial remains. There is even a golden wheel of a Egyptian chariot on the bottom of that sea, etc.

You remember perhaps the animal that spoke, this website throws it out because of its spelling, but spell it yourself correctly, the azz that spoke to Balaam. Well, Balaam's name has been found on a non Biblical source. (the animal you'll just have to ignore right now).

Go ahead and ask questions, that is OK. I just don't want to get into ' you say, I say' kind of arguments.

 

[wizanda]

So let's say I recognize where the ultimate source of light comes from, and by resonating on the same frequency, I have driven darkness away.

We can't drive darkness away, we're made from lower dense quantum strands.... The structuring of reality stems from the Source, and without it things break down.

Is that a reason to worship this light (whatever that may be)? Or is worship itself the act of resonating on the same frequency?

There are different forms of Yoga which means to connect, that might help express this...

Bhakti means devotion, and there are plenty of devotees who place all emphasis on some form of worship; yet miss Jnana (higher conscious inquiry) and Raja (mindfulness)...

There is also Karma yoga, where all of our actions become a form of connection and worship; making a point of physically praying or worshiping when we're inside a simulated reality misses the point, it is in all efforts we should reach towards the light.

I still don't understand why this light is worthy of worship.

Because reality is made manifest by the CPU, and as the CPU is beyond all the dimensions it produces the light, and creates the reality we're within...

It knows all knowledge, and educates us when we're connected to it.

Is worship the only way to achieve this light?

As saying all forms of Yoga are ways to help us connect to it; worship is only one method of comprehension.

What happens if I don't worship? What are the consequences?

If we don't accept the CPU, let alone worship it, eventually we no longer exists in a pleasurable realm, and end up just being in the darkness (Hell).

In my opinion.

 

[Kemosloby]

Sorry, my post wasn't being sarcastic or dismissive. I am genuinely happy you find joy through worship. I do not want to dismiss worship. I want to understand why people do it. And you've given me your reason. And I'm happy for you. Have a great day!

You didn't seem to latch on to the idea that I like to sing worship songs because Jesus died on the cross for me, and helps me overcome sin. So here is a song to express that idea.

 

[Terese]

Okay. I can see that. Is being free of material desires your highest priority? How do you rid yourself of desire? Isn't the fact that you want to attain his abode in itself a desire?


Not at all. I want to have a healthy debate.

Yes, being free from material desires is a large priority, since it is a great root of suffering. Everything material is temporary and will end. Ridding oneself of desire isn't the goal, but controlling desire is. Attaining the Lord's abode is not a material desire, but a spiritual one. He is endless and eternal, and so are his forms and qualities, his abode being one form of him.

 

[Stevicus]

I vote for God; he has the power, the will, and the plan to put into effect his promises. Can you usually call the president, or ruler, whenever you have a problem?
Well, we can pray and get help with our needs. We might not get to talk to God in a person to person type manner, but we do get his attention to our problem. Do you have that with your chosen ruler?

I vote for God.

Wait. We get to vote for God? Since when? I thought God was running a one-party dictatorship, but if there are other candidates for God out there who have a shot at winning, maybe there might be something to it. Can God be impeached?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Worship, etymologically anyway, means to have adoration or deep respect for something. So uh, the answer is yes, at least in that sense of the word.

Okay, and I did mean worship in the etymological sense. So worship is not an exchange for you, correct?

I should qualify that, however, with the fact that it has to be truly awesome, awe-inspiring. Maybe it's more so that awesome things are the vessel rather than the object. For example a song, while isn't the focus of the sense of reverence, is the vessel through which it is experienced.

I'm with you so far.

So it is and can be with a deity. When I listen to certain types of scales and timbres I focus on them intently as I would when in meditative worship. That auditory experience is the same as a depiction one might worship. Worshiping of physical idols ect is pretty common in Hinduism. I just tend to prefer sound over sight when it comes to most things.

I can totally relate. I grew up Hindu in Southern India. I myself prefer sound as well, especially in nature. Although I am not a big fan of bhajans, especially the sorts which reach a crescendo as the song progresses. Probably because I don't like communal worship.

Though this shouldn't be mistaken with just being really into music. Music can be divine in it's own right, but there is something uniquely special to me about contextualizing music into my magical (as in trying to cause changes or reactions), spiritual (as in sense of and nature of one's self) and religious beliefs (the organized, theological aspect). One can have religious music, or spiritual music, or even music meant to have some kind of magical effect. But for me it's the intersection of those 3 that create the kind of sense of divinity found in worship. The music is both the focal point of and the vessel of the worship. Likewise, the deity worshiped is both the vessel and focal point.

I hope that makes sense.

It makes total sense. I like Om Namah Siva by Krishna Das myself. It sort of progresses and creeps up on you, and it is very calming indeed.

All three. It helps because, being in ignorance, we are unable to conceptualize true nature. The deity is a tool towards that end by personification. I am somewhat partial to Swami Krishnananda's explanation of Ishvaras (divine inspiration) in Yoga. Essentially the metaphor is that a deity is like a lion you see in a dream. The lion can scare you awake. It wasn't real, but none-the-less it had awakened you to the waking world. To me a deity is the intentional use of this metaphorical lion. I view how we perceive and are conscious of ourselves and of the world as much like a dream, although actual dreams are much less 'real' than our world, it's still derived and based off of them. Likewise our world is based on a more clear reality "above" it.

Okay. So worship leads to a higher sense of self and reality? I can see that.

I have a hunch though that the difference is less spectacular from our world and this higher world than it is our world and the dream world, however. In Trika, we believe that the physical world is concrete and so we differ than this from many other kinds of Hindus.

In literal dreams we can respond to real life stimuli which affect the dream in illogical ways (there is some research on this but if you've ever woken up and realized a noise or breeze made you dream something you know what I mean). I think in our waking world we likewise react to the realest stimuli but that it's filtered through our limited perception and has a direct logical connection rather than the more non-sequitor that waking-world stimuli can cause in literal dreams. So the relation between these layered worlds might be more exponential rather than linear.

That was a great explanation. Thank you!

 

[TawheedIsTheOnlyWay]

To all my friends who are theists out there, I would like to understand why you worship your God.

Simple answer: I worship God because He deserves to be worshipped.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

You sound as if you might be worth an exchange.
For example, we have in Arabia, evidence of the nation of Israel - the altar of the calf worship that Israel committed a sin with, we have Solomon's pillars (one left, Saudis removed the other one on their side once they found out what it was) that commemorated the crossing, we have the altars of Israel on the two mountain sides when they entered the promised land, and the place where the Tabernacle resided for a long period with animal sacrificial remains. There is even a golden wheel of a Egyptian chariot on the bottom of that sea, etc.

You remember perhaps the animal that spoke, this website throws it out because of its spelling, but spell it yourself correctly, the azz that spoke to Balaam. Well, Balaam's name has been found on a non Biblical source. (the animal you'll just have to ignore right now).

Go ahead and ask questions, that is OK. I just don't want to get into ' you say, I say' kind of arguments.

I wasn't trying to get you to present on behalf of your religion. I wouldn't know what to do with all this evidence you provided All I wanted to know was what made your god worthy of your love and devotion.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

We can't drive darkness away, we're made from lower dense quantum strands.... The structuring of reality stems from the Source, and without it things break down.

There are different forms of Yoga which means to connect, that might help express this...

Bhakti means devotion, and there are plenty of devotees who place all emphasis on some form of worship; yet miss Jnana (higher conscious inquiry) and Raja (mindfulness)...

There is also Karma yoga, where all of our actions become a form of connection and worship; making a point of physically praying or worshiping when we're inside a simulated reality misses the point, it is in all efforts we should reach towards the light.

Because reality is made manifest by the CPU, and as the CPU is beyond all the dimensions it produces the light, and creates the reality we're within...

It knows all knowledge, and educates us when we're connected to it.

As saying all forms of Yoga are ways to help us connect to it; worship is only one method of comprehension.

So true understanding is the highest goal, correct? I appreciate your explanation, and it makes a lot of sense.

If we don't accept the CPU, let alone worship it, eventually we no longer exists in a pleasurable realm, and end up just being in the darkness (Hell).

In my opinion.

Okay, so in your opinion, people who don't worship by definition cannot reach a higher sense of self, and must therefore eventually end up in the darkness? Can worship take any form?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

You didn't seem to latch on to the idea that I like to sing worship songs because Jesus died on the cross for me, and helps me overcome sin. So here is a song to express that idea.

I got goosebumps listening to that song. Thank you for sharing.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Yes, being free from material desires is a large priority, since it is a great root of suffering. Everything material is temporary and will end. Ridding oneself of desire isn't the goal, but controlling desire is. Attaining the Lord's abode is not a material desire, but a spiritual one. He is endless and eternal, and so are his forms and qualities, his abode being one form of him.

Ah I see. This does make a ton of sense. And truly worthy of deep respect. It is an ideal we must all aspire to, am I right in understanding your view?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Simple answer: I worship God because He deserves to be worshipped.

Well, that is precisely what I want to know. Why does He deserve your worship?