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Why is homosexuality wrong?

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
based on what, exactly?

It's human biology nothing moral. I can break it down but I don't know medical terms and don't think it's appropriate for this forum. I'm not saying it is wrong. I am saying it is not natural. On that note...

Please define natural and unnatural.
Doing something that the body is not made to do.

Gymnast stretching his or her body in a way that the body isn't made for. Regardless if it works or not; pain or not that isn't the point.

Eating by putting food in your nostrils. Regardless if it fits or not that isn't the point.

The list goes on. Just because the action is sexual doesn't exclude it as being part of the list above. It's not a personal thing. It's just what I believe.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Then why do both men and women report having an orgasm from being anally penetrated, as well as having a heightened orgasm? It would seem "unnatural" for the nipples to receive any sexual attention, but many men and women enjoy having their nipples played with.
As for harm, even some men have went the hospital because their penis broke while having vaginal sex with a woman. STIs do not know sex or gender. And so many things that people get concerned about with anal intercourse (such as fecal matter entering the blood stream) are not medical concerns with conditions that cause anal and rectal tearing. And even a vagina can be damaged and a penis hurt from the vagina being under lubricated.

Like I said, regardless of what the result is and whether or not it fits with or without pain, doesn't mean a penis is supposed to go there. People do many different things. I'm a lesbian, I have done many different things. That doesn't mean half the things I did were natural (what the body is made to do). Just because it worked doesn't make it more natural. People do different things. That's fine. I'm not questioning our (I will put myself in this then) morals and beliefs on the matter. I enjoy what I do and when I do it. That doesn't exclude my believe that some things that humans do are not made for the human body to do. Refer to post 441.
 

McBell

Unbound
It's human biology nothing moral. I can break it down but I don't know medical terms and don't think it's appropriate for this forum. I'm not saying it is wrong. I am saying it is not natural.
I understood you were saying the penis is not supposed to go into the anus from a "biological" PoV and not a moral one.
I do not understand how you came to that conclusion.
At this point I am wondering if you even know how you came to that conclusion.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
I have looked for this "from a spiritual perspective" argument and have not been able to find it.
Would you be so kind as to point me to it?

See post #182 of this thread, that I wrote. I did my best to explain it at length.

Here's is direct quote from that post (that represents about half of what I conveyed, making 3 distinct points):

Spiritually speaking, I do think the activity is a 'mental illness.' But, by activity, I mean 'all physical, sexual activities' regardless of (alleged) orientation. I say alleged, because my bias as a bisexual person feels that word is warranted. Perhaps a whole other debate. I reckon me writing words 'mental illness' in relation to 'all physical, sexual activities' is debatable enough. But, I don't think it is the type of 'mental illness' that is to be dealt with my mental health practitioners, nor do I see that having much chance for 'successful change.' I actually think such treatment would likely make things 'worse.' Would likely have people explore a whole lot of unnecessary paths, and ultimately would be about them (the practitioners) witnessing to an outer, or apparent, change to what I see as inner dilemma. The correction is not, even a little bit, sexual. I don't see one right way on this planet to be sexual. And the idea that we now have a plethora of sexual activity is, to me, a sign that our attempts at outer solutions are actually having opposite effect from what we intend. Such that if we intend to curtail rape by seeking outer solutions, I see that as inadvertently causing more rapes to occur.

When I say 'mental illness' I mean something close to delusion that thinks sexual activity brings about a) enjoyment, b) intimacy and/or c) greatest possible connection. Thus, marriage or not, I don't see how that would matter, other than societal attempt to control / limit the activity to as few people as possible. Given how over the top messed up marriage is on the planet, I really don't see how that is viable solution to whatever is seen as 'problem with sexual activity.'

To me, the solution is a) forgiveness and b) do 'this' instead. The first of these is to realize that whatever judgment 'we' appear to have about offensive sexual relations is entirely on each individual hanging onto those judgments as if they are fully righteous and God/nature agrees with them. The latter is spiritually loving (one and all) in way that does lead to a) actual joy, b) actual intimacy, c) greatest possible connection. I don't see that personally relying on physical mean to do this. But the kicker is that the physical is rather meaningless, thus if someone for at least the short term needs the delusion to help make that work for them, then really who is to judge that as (inherently) offensive? Which goes back to the (a) solution. Or judge not, lest ye be judged. Or put yet another way, it's not like your chosen path for sexual attraction/activity isn't plausibly a mental illness from the strictly spiritual perspective.

Would've been much easier to fit in to worldly understandings to not include the above 3 paragraphs in this post, but I'd rather have stated this than not. Above all else, I'm yet to see good reason why anyone ought to feel guilt over sexual attractions they have, and do see reason to resist that type of thinking at every turn. But also wish to be clear that promoting the activity as if that is necessary part of the attraction is where I see the problems consistently arising, both politically and spiritually. That's as true for heterosexuals as well as homosexuals. And yet, regardless of what I am implying, there's simply no way to stop the activity any time soon, nor should there be. No reason to advocate for guilt and good reason to advocate for forgiveness, as if there is another way to filter all of this.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I understood you were saying the penis is not supposed to go into the anus from a "biological" PoV and not a moral one.
I do not understand how you came to that conclusion.
At this point I am wondering if you even know how you came to that conclusion.

Being in the hospital for most my childhood you kind of pick up on stuff, reading, and "experience". It could also be that it's not something I really thought about in that way to rationalize it. It's more that each body part has certain functions and the anus is not for sexual functions even though we use it as so. I know it shouldn't be hard to explain but to me it seems so common sense that to find words is near impossible.

Like the Vagina has many functions not just for procreation. It secrets fluid to clean the Vagina. It serves a purpose during a woman's mentral cycle, and so forth. However, if I am going to my local Toys R Us, in my opinion, Toys are for kids. I feel it's unnatural to use them otherwise. That's just me.

It's the same rational as male/male and male/female (if they decide to go that route) intercourse. Maybe it's a bias or something I won't ever understand given I'm not attracted to men to find understanding if the reasoning has something to do with attraction.

I'd have to give it more thought.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Look. If you're not going to bother to reply to my questions why bother replying at all?


.
Maybe I was not clear in my answer. God's Law against homosexual acts helps us avoid this practice that offends God.
Obeying that law will help us avoid the inevitable outcome for those who practice such acts, as 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 affirms.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member


While there is no punishment indicated, it is forbidden under Leviticus.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
That Scripture does not say she must marry her seducer. It says he must marry her and would be unable to divorce her.
Exodus 22:16,17 clarifies this:. Now if a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged and he lies down with her, he must pay the bride-price for her to become his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he is to pay the money at the rate of the bride-price." This Law actually would tend to prevent such seduction, since a man would realize his actions were, in effect, a long-term commitment to the girl he was thinking of seducing. He could also be publicly beaten for his offense. (Deuteronomy 25:2,3)
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Maybe I was not clear in my answer. God's Law against homosexual acts helps us avoid this practice that offends God.
Obeying that law will help us avoid the inevitable outcome for those who practice such acts, as 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 affirms.
But if he made no law against it why would anyone think to avoid it? Don't you realize you're putting the cart before the horse?


.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
That Scripture does not say she must marry her seducer. It says he must marry her and would be unable to divorce her.
It's still saying she must marry him. It makes no difference if you change the wording to "he must marry her." It's a still a woman who has been violently attacked and violated and then slapped in the face by having to marry the guy who did it to her, with no hopes of ever getting out of the marriage. And if he dies, then his brother gets her.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
Define "spiritual."

of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things

Spirit, definition: the nonphysical part of a person regarded as a person's true self and as capable of surviving physical death or separation
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
I did tell you why I think it is sinful and wrong. Does not the word disgusting explain to you why I feel homosexuality is wrong? I gave you many other words to contemplate as well. Do I need to describe the actions of it, the smell of it, and the sight of it for you to understand? Do you really need me to use verbs, more adjectives and adverbs to understand why I think homosexuality is wrong? I even named some of the common diseases and illnesses associated with it. What more could you possibly need?

Simply put, homosexuality is sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex.

Honestly, people having sexual desires directed toward person's of the same sex is sick enough, but acting on those desires is what my answer is focused on.
I would have been a firm believer in Leviticus 20:13. Cleanse the earth, save for Christ.

Why do you think all forms of 'sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex' are disgusting?

Also, what is your opinion of intersex people expressing sexual interest in men or women (i.e. people who are not the same sex as them)?
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
Well, I might have the opinion I have simply by chance.

If that were the case, then how would you know that it was a necessarily 'good' opinion to hold?

However, perhaps also by chance, I also believe that God sometimes intervenes in people's lives.

Could you imagine a good guy vs bad guy drama that didn't have any bad guys?
In such a drama, what exactly is the purpose of having a bad guy?

I'm afraid I don't quite see how that answers my questions.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things

Spirit, definition: the nonphysical part of a person regarded as a person's true self and as capable of surviving physical death or separation
Where could you get information about such a nebulous subject?
Claiming it exists is a bit of a stretch. Claiming to know that same sex orientation is a defect or illness is even more of one.
Tom
 

Nyingjé Tso

Dharma not drama
Soooo

Hetero= opposite sex

Homo= same sex

Bi= both sexes

Pan= all the above plus..what..plants and animals?

Vanakkam,

Pansexual = attracted to males, females and third sex.
It means someone that does not take gender or biological sex of partner as a preference or hindrance in a relations hip.

Nothing to do with plants or animals, please.

Aum Namah Shivaya
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
In my opinion and I don't know how else to put it, I do not believe the actual action (not the result of the action) of anal sex is natural anymore than, as I mentioned, eating food by using my nostrils. Not bad. Not wrong. That is just not a part of the body the penis is supposed to go. Each part of the body has different functions and reasons for those functions. People do whatever they want with their bodies. Like my other example about the gymnast. There are many people who can wrap themselves up in such a knot that even though it may pay good for their career, they are literally harming their body in the process of whatever they are doing. After practice, of course they get used to it and it because natural; however, that doesn't replace the fact that it harms the body. (I'm talking about the action not the harm)

That's my view. Not wrong. Not unhealthy (it doesn't cause harm, illnesses, or anything like that). Just unnatural.

Can't think of another way to explain it.

Actually, Gymnastics doesn't harm the body. If a Gymnast has a coach who pushes them past breaking point or diet unnecessarily, then it can harm them. The human body can do all sorts of whacky things and often our bodies do exactly what they're supposed to do in extreme situations. Cope. You are severely underestimating the human body and it's capabilities. Our survival mechanisms can help us achieve all sorts of seemingly "impossible" things. Also you forget about medical conditions like 'hypeflexibility" which is often called being double jointed. This is essentially useless in evolution, but means that the joints can extend past what is "normal." In essence the tendons in the joints are a lot thinner than they usually are. While this does make people who have this condition susceptible to things like arthritis, because the joints are generally weakened, it can benefit someone if they are doing something like gymnastics. (Well depending on how "severe" the condition is, I guess.) Not only can it strengthen the joints or at least the muscles around the joints, but it can give them a little leg up in terms of learning the things they do. Because they're already flexible.
People who can wrap themselves up in a knot or otherwise contort their body more often than not have relatively severe cases of Hyperflexibility or other medical conditions that allows them to easily "disjoint" themselves. So I'm not sure where you get the idea that it can harm their bodies. They are doing exactly what their bodies are "made" for. Gymnasts and I'd wager quite a few contortionists are probably in the peak of their physical shape. As long as they don't get overtly lazy, or doing actually dangerous things like under eating, I don't see how their bodies would pay the price, so to speak
You claim that "the body is supposed to do this" but that just doesn't line up with Biology, mate. Our bodies are amazing machines that can do a lot of thing weird and wonderful things if we try.

And who says the "penis isn't supposed to go there (the anus)?" Not biology, not science, not the human anatomy.
The only people who say that are the anti gay crowd based off their Holy Book, which is fine. At least there's some tangible grounding they can point to. I'll disagree with them, but that's okay.
But what are you basing this on?
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things

Spirit, definition: the nonphysical part of a person regarded as a person's true self and as capable of surviving physical death or separation


You want me to discuss homosexuality in regards to some thing we don't even know exists in the first place? And that's going to demonstrate that it actually is a mental disorder?

I think I'm confused.
 
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