Why is Islam so dangerous?

[loverofhumanity]

There are terrorists, assassins, killers and murderers and then there are 1.7 beautiful, peaceful, lovely and kind Muslims.

The former break every Quran law but claim to be Muslims yet the latter follow and obey the Quran and live in peace and harmony.

It’s a fraction and a tiny minority that are not true Muslims that get massive publicity that are giving Islam a bad name while the Muslim world is full of peaceful people.

There’s a world of difference between a tiny group of terrorists and 1.7 billion peaceful Muslims. Yes there are terrorists but there are a billion and a half more peaceful Muslims who don’t get any acknowledgement for being peaceful.

Why are 1.7 billion Muslims peaceful? Because Islam and the Quran teach peace.

 

[9-18-1]

There are terrorists, assassins, killers and murderers and then there are 1.7 beautiful, peaceful, lovely and kind Muslims.

The former break every Quran law but claim to be Muslims yet the latter follow and obey the Quran and live in peace and harmony.

It’s a fraction and a tiny minority that are not true Muslims that get massive publicity that are giving Islam a bad name while the Muslim world is full of peaceful people.

There’s a world of difference between a tiny group of terrorists and 1.7 billion peaceful Muslims. Yes there are terrorists but there are a billion and a half more peaceful Muslims who don’t get any acknowledgement for being peaceful.

Why are 1.7 billion Muslims peaceful? Because Islam and the Quran teach peace.

Lol what nonsense is this.

The reason Islam is so dangerous is simple: Muslims "BELIEVE" the Qur'an is the perfect, inimitable, unaltered, inerrant word of god when it is not. It is forged from Christian strophic hymns and apocryphal texts. That Muslims "BELIEVE" a god had anything to do with that book is the problem.

However Islam is not the first to make such a claim: Judaism did/does the same with Torah, which itself has 4 source authors and a 5th redactor. This is a problem for Islam because the Qur'an indicates the Torah as having been "delivered" when in fact it is man-made.

Because Islam is a Christian heresy, it utilizes the same male central figure idol (worship) scheme: mercy upon mankind. It is stated 89 times in the Qur'an that Muhammad serves as the role model and his pattern of conduct is to be emulated.

Given that the historical Muhammad was:
-epileptic; suicidal
-sexually promiscuous/polygamous/infidel
-misogynist; genocidal
-literally confused; forging from apocrypha
-warlord; waged endless war against "unbelievers"
-pedophile

such an example to be used as the highest possible standard for all of humanity (like Jesus in Christianity) will produce nothing better. It is true most Muslims are good people, but they are also victims of a horrendous ideology rooted in deception.

The first victim of the "believing" Muslim is the Muslim. They are indoctrinated to "believe" that the source of all of their misery comes from Jews, Christians, polytheists, unbelievers, infidels, the West etc. thus causing Muslims to appropriate their own suffering as having external sources, when in fact Muslims suffer under Islam.

For example, that Muslims "believe" they are working against all man-made laws and installing god's law (ie. sharia derived from the Qur'an) when in fact they are the ones installing man-made laws has lead to the deaths of hundreds of millions (just between North Africa and India alone).

As such Islam is a cancer on humanity: whenever a problem acts as a solution, destruction will naturally follow. This is exactly what Islam is and why China declared it a mental illness: it is one. "Believing" that the Qur'an came from god is a mental illness, given we know not even the Torah did.

The people (such as quoted) that defend Islam are pathetic and have absolutely no clue the poison of this putrid ideology. Of course such people resort to fascist slander, labeling critics as "Islamophobic" (despite the real phobia coming from Muslims who can't stand criticisms of Islam, an example of Islam blaming everyone else for its own problems), "racist" (Islam is not a race), "bigot", "hater" etc. Such stifling of criticisms reveals Islam can't stand them, hence the need to resort to fascist suppression.

The problem is "BELIEF" and Muslims "BELIEVE" a lot of nonsense that is not anywhere close to being true; not the least of which are the Qur'an lie, the (nature of) Muhammad lie, and the history of Islam lies. Mosques facing Mecca weren't even built until the mid-8th century and Muhammad did not even appear until the late 7th. It's one large cesspool of deception and retrograde tribal "us" vs. "them" mindsets that continues to perpetuate conflict globally - with people who do not "believe" what Muslims "believe".

"Belief" is simply not a virtue;
not "simply believing" is.

 

[charlie sc]

There are terrorists, assassins, killers and murderers and then there are 1.7 beautiful, peaceful, lovely and kind Muslims.

The former break every Quran law but claim to be Muslims yet the latter follow and obey the Quran and live in peace and harmony.

It’s a fraction and a tiny minority that are not true Muslims that get massive publicity that are giving Islam a bad name while the Muslim world is full of peaceful people.

There’s a world of difference between a tiny group of terrorists and 1.7 billion peaceful Muslims. Yes there are terrorists but there are a billion and a half more peaceful Muslims who don’t get any acknowledgement for being peaceful.

Why are 1.7 billion Muslims peaceful? Because Islam and the Quran teach peace.

Asking for acknowledgment for being peaceful is absurd. It’s like asking for acknowledgment that a society is not using slaves anymore. The rest of the world does not need this kind of recognition because freedom has become somewhat of the norm. Consequently, peace necessarily follows.

To say it’s a minority of Muslims would be correct, but to somehow dismiss Islam has anything to do with it is just plain wrong. People always do what they think is right, but it can get especially muddled by obscure violent and demeaning texts. Where is the Buddhist state and where are their suicide bombers? The majority of terrorism performed today is because of and correlated to Islam. “Despite severe territorial and financial losses, Islamic State remained the deadliest terrorist group in 2017, even though deaths attributed to the group fell by 52 per cent from the prior year.”
https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/Global-Terrorism-Index-2018-1.pdf

You’ll notice a common theme in the terrorist attacks: they’re nearly all related in some way to Islam. Muslims need to learn and be able to take criticism for their ideology. Currently, they get way too emotional over anything against their worldview. Similarly, they need to examine and take criticism over the contention that it may not be a religion of peace.

 

[sooda]

Lol what nonsense is this.

The reason Islam is so dangerous is simple: Muslims "BELIEVE" the Qur'an is the perfect, inimitable, unaltered, inerrant word of god when it is not. It is forged from Christian strophic hymns and apocryphal texts. That Muslims "BELIEVE" a god had anything to do with that book is the problem.

However Islam is not the first to make such a claim: Judaism did/does the same with Torah, which itself has 4 source authors and a 5th redactor. This is a problem for Islam because the Qur'an indicates the Torah as having been "delivered" when in fact it is man-made.

Because Islam is a Christian heresy, it utilizes the same male central figure idol (worship) scheme: mercy upon mankind. It is stated 89 times in the Qur'an that Muhammad serves as the role model and his pattern of conduct is to be emulated.

Given that the historical Muhammad was:
-epileptic; suicidal
-sexually promiscuous/polygamous/infidel
-misogynist; genocidal
-literally confused; forging from apocrypha
-warlord; waged endless war against "unbelievers"
-pedophile

such an example to be used as the highest possible standard for all of humanity (like Jesus in Christianity) will produce nothing better. It is true most Muslims are good people, but they are also victims of a horrendous ideology rooted in deception.

The first victim of the "believing" Muslim is the Muslim. They are indoctrinated to "believe" that the source of all of their misery comes from Jews, Christians, polytheists, unbelievers, infidels, the West etc. thus causing Muslims to appropriate their own suffering as having external sources, when in fact Muslims suffer under Islam.

For example, that Muslims "believe" they are working against all man-made laws and installing god's law (ie. sharia derived from the Qur'an) when in fact they are the ones installing man-made laws has lead to the deaths of hundreds of millions (just between North Africa and India alone).

As such Islam is a cancer on humanity: whenever a problem acts as a solution, destruction will naturally follow. This is exactly what Islam is and why China declared it a mental illness: it is one. "Believing" that the Qur'an came from god is a mental illness, given we know not even the Torah did.

The people (such as quoted) that defend Islam are pathetic and have absolutely no clue the poison of this putrid ideology. Of course such people resort to fascist slander, labeling critics as "Islamophobic" (despite the real phobia coming from Muslims who can't stand criticisms of Islam, an example of Islam blaming everyone else for its own problems), "racist" (Islam is not a race), "bigot", "hater" etc. Such stifling of criticisms reveals Islam can't stand them, hence the need to resort to fascist suppression.

The problem is "BELIEF" and Muslims "BELIEVE" a lot of nonsense that is not anywhere close to being true; not the least of which are the Qur'an lie, the (nature of) Muhammad lie, and the history of Islam lies. Mosques facing Mecca weren't even built until the mid-8th century and Muhammad did not even appear until the late 7th. It's one large cesspool of deception and retrograde tribal "us" vs. "them" mindsets that continues to perpetuate conflict globally - with people who do not "believe" what Muslims "believe".

"Belief" is simply not a virtue;
not "simply believing" is.

1. RELEASE: ISIS Needs the West to Alienate Its Muslim ...
   https://www.americanprogress.org/press/release/2015/11/25/126330/release-isis-needs...
   Nov 25, 2015 · — The attacks perpetrated by the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, or ISIS, over the past few weeks have brought an undercurrent of anti-Muslim sentiment in Western culture to the surface.
   
   
2. Videos of isis strategy to alienate muslims from the west
   bing.com/videos
   
   
   3:18
   Young Muslims: ISIS doesn't represent us
   92K views
   YouTube · 10/3/2014
   
   
   3:52
   The strategy behind ISIS' brutality
   19K views
   YouTube · 2/18/2015
   
   
   1:37
   Trump's Plan To Bar Muslims From The US Would Do ISIS A Big Favor
   MSN · 12/10/2015
   See more videos of isis strategy to alienate muslims from the west
3. ISIS’s Strategy to Divide Muslims in the West
   https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/isis-strategy-to-divide-muslims-in-the-west
   Sep 06, 2016 · The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria’s (ISIS) global attacks since last year are part of a deliberate strategy to provoke anti-Muslim rhetoric and actions in the West that create fissures between Muslims and local populations; ISIS aims to capitalize on the tension by casting itself as a defender of Muslims worldwide. ISIS’s predecessor organization, the Sunni-majority al-Qa’ida in Iraq (AQI), …
   
   • Author: NJOHSP
4. ISIS’s intriguing silence about Donald Trump’s approach to ...
   March 17, 2017 - Religion News Serviceisiss-intriguing-silence-about-donald-trumps...
   ISIS’s intriguing silence about Donald Trump’s approach to Muslims ... Trump’s statements also serve to isolate and alienate the same Muslim ... except with the prior written permission of ...
   
   
5. ISIS Exposes the True Reason Why It Hates the West
   https://www.americanthinker.com/.../08/isis_exposes_true_reason_it_hates_the_west.html
   Aug 19, 2016 · ISIS Exposes the True Reason Why It Hates the West. This volume of translations [The Al Qaeda Reader], taken as a whole, proves once and for all that, despite the propaganda of al-Qaeda and its sympathizers, radical Islam's war with the West is not finite and limited to political grievances – real or imagined – but is existential,...
   
   
6. Al Qaeda v ISIS: Ideology & Strategy | Wilson Center
   https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/al-qaeda-v-isis-ideology-strategy
   Like al Qaeda, ISIS has a strongly anti-Western worldview. Baghdadi has urged Muslims around the world to rise up and avenge injustices inflicted by the West. ISIS has publicly beheaded Western hostages. But most of its victims have been local.
   
   
7. [PDF]
   Anti-Muslim Sentiment Is a Serious Threat to American Security
   https://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/25074358/ISISTrap.pdf
   1 Center for American Progress | Anti-Muslim Sentiment Is a Serious Threat to American Security. Introduction and summary. The incredible barbarism perpetrated by the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, or ISIS, too often dissuades those in the West from any meaningful assessment of the group’s strategy and tactics.
   
   
8. Hating Muslims plays right into the Islamic State’s hands ...
   https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/17/isis-wants-you-to-hate-muslims
   Apr 26, 2019 · “Then ISIS will be able to say, ‘I told you so. ... acts of terrorism widen the cultural divide by provoking hate crimes against Muslims in the West. This strategy gained traction in the early ...
   
   
9. What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic
   https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980
   The Islamic State, also known as the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS), follows a distinctive variety of Islam whose beliefs about the path to the Day of Judgment matter to its strategy, and can help the West know its enemy and predict its behavior.
   
   
10. ISIS versus the West: A clash of ... - Religion News Service
    February 23, 2015 - Religion News Serviceisis-versus-west-clash-civilizations-commentary
    The religion of Islam, he writes, is fundamental to ISIS as is its call for a new caliphate and a return to Sharia law and the lifestyle and culture of the 7th century.
    
    
11. ISIS Strategy is to Divide and Conquer - Fair Observer
    https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/isis-strategy-is-to-divide-and-conquer-32139
    Camille Schyns is a Dutch analyst on international security and terrorism. He has worked for the European External Action Service in Brussels and the The attacks in Egypt, Lebanon and France show that ISIS feels threatened and is shifting its strategy to exert a cost on the coalition powers. Over ...
    
    
12. What ISIS Really Is | The New Republic
    What ISIS Really Isisis-really
    Jan 05, 2017 · What ISIS Really Is ... nor did he wish to alienate the overwhelming majority of Muslims who were as repulsed by ISIS as anyone else. However, Obama’s claim that ISIS …
    

 

[9-18-1]

links

What point are you trying to make?

The problem is Islam indoctrinating Muslims to "BELIEVE" something that is not true. As such, Muslims naturally require scapegoating in order to justify its own 'state' despite not actually addressing it: the state of Islam itself. This is why I stated that the first victim of Islam is the "BELIEVING" Muslim: it is true. That the Muslim "BELIEVES" something that is not true is where the problem begins.

Considerations that attempt to brush this aside are adding to the problem: especially given the problem itself is scapegoating. These links are further demonstrations of attempting to scapegoat the problem elsewhere.

The problem is the state of Islam itself - the Qur'an is not perfect, and Muhammad is not a model for humanity. That Muslims "BELIEVE" these to be true, when they are not, is the problem. Such beliefs perpetuate the "BELIEVER" vs. "UNBELIEVER" division that began even before Christianity.

One should never be persecuted for:

i. NOT "BELIEVING" something someone else believes, and
ii. Criticizing a "BELIEF"-based state, especially one that purports "truths" that are not true at all
iii. Criticizing a founder of such a state which is purported as the model man for humanity for all of time

this is precisely where fascism and persecution comes from. That anyone would apologize for a fascist state such as Islam is beyond reproach, especially given the humanitarian crisis it is sparking.

 

[lukethethird]

Why is Islam so dangerous?
Because it is a religion, and having said that it is no more or less dangerous than any religion.

 

[sooda]

What point are you trying to make?

The problem is Islam indoctrinating Muslims to "BELIEVE" something that is not true. As such, Muslims naturally require scapegoating in order to justify its own 'state' despite not actually addressing it: the state of Islam itself. This is why I stated that the first victim of Islam is the "BELIEVING" Muslim: it is true. That the Muslim "BELIEVES" something that is not true is where the problem begins.

Considerations that attempt to brush this aside are adding to the problem: especially given the problem itself is scapegoating. These links are further demonstrations of attempting to scapegoat the problem elsewhere.

The problem is the state of Islam itself - the Qur'an is not perfect, and Muhammad is not a model for humanity. That Muslims "BELIEVE" these to be true, when they are not, is the problem. Such beliefs perpetuate the "BELIEVER" vs. "UNBELIEVER" division that began even before Christianity.

One should never be persecuted for:

i. NOT "BELIEVING" something someone else believes, and
ii. Criticizing a "BELIEF"-based state, especially one that purports "truths" that are not true at all
iii. Criticizing a founder of such a state which is purported as the model man for humanity for all of time

this is precisely where fascism and persecution comes from. That anyone would apologize for a fascist state such as Islam is beyond reproach, especially given the humanitarian crisis it is sparking.

Honey, you don't know anything about Islam or Christianity.

 

[Kk4mds]

Rabbi Tovia Singer has a synagogue with 20 members in Jakarta, Indonesia, a country that is 87% Muslim and has the largest Muslim population in the world. He was asked about what it is like being Jewish in such a country. Rabbi Singer, who is knowledgeable about the Quran, described how he and imams studied Torah together, how they gathered together to help the poor, and how, of all the many countries he has been in, it is Indonesia in which he has experienced the least amount of antisemitism, almost none. Of course, he reminded the audience, every group “has its nut jobs “.

The west, especially Europe, has spent centuries trying to convince the Muslims that they are hated, that their religion in third rate, at best, and that invasion of their countries by the west is just policy.

However, we must remember that the present “problems” with Islam is political. The Palestinians have been used as political pawns and are used to foment hatred. However, in non-Arab nations, such as Indonesia, such hatred does not exist.

I suggest that we remember to separate the political issues and the actions of the “nut jobs” as separate from from the vast Muslim population that neither espouse nor support such actions.

Fear extremists of all stripes.

 

[sooda]

Rabbi Tovia Singer has a synagogue with 20 members in Jakarta, Indonesia, a country that is 87% Muslim and has the largest Muslim population in the world. He was asked about what it is like being Jewish in such a country. Rabbi Singer, who is knowledgeable about the Quran, described how he and imams studied Torah together, how they gathered together to help the poor, and how, of all the many countries he has been in, it is Indonesia in which he has experienced the least amount of antisemitism, almost none. Of course, he reminded the audience, every group “has its nut jobs “.

The west, especially Europe, has spent centuries trying to convince the Muslims that they are hated, that their religion in third rate, at best, and that invasion of their countries by the west is just policy.

However, we must remember that the present “problems” with Islam is political. The Palestinians have been used as political pawns and are used to foment hatred. However, in non-Arab nations, such as Indonesia, such hatred does not exist.

I suggest that we remember to separate the political issues and the actions of the “nut jobs” as separate from from the vast Muslim population that neither espouse nor support such actions.

Fear extremists of all stripes.

Exactly how have the Palestinians been used as political pawns?

Are you talking about Jewish nationalism or US foreign aid?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...ews-white-nationalism/?utm_term=.d29008ef0330

Netanyahu is far more florid in his descriptions of threats that line up with his worldview. He’s called Palestinians and other Arabs “wild beasts” who seek to infiltrate Israel’s borders and has called the war with militant Islam a “struggle of civilizations.”

In February, after 80 Jewish graves were desecrated in France but no one was injured, Netanyahu’s response was more emphatic: He specifically called out the “wild antisemites” who committed the act and called it “a plague that endangers everyone, not just us.”

Two Israelis who recently moved to California were among those injured in the Chabad synagogue attack, but Netanyahu still couldn’t muster up any specific outrage that condemns what is clearly a pattern of violence with a specific source.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Lol what nonsense is this.

The reason Islam is so dangerous is simple: Muslims "BELIEVE" the Qur'an is the perfect, inimitable, unaltered, inerrant word of god when it is not. It is forged from Christian strophic hymns and apocryphal texts. That Muslims "BELIEVE" a god had anything to do with that book is the problem.

However Islam is not the first to make such a claim: Judaism did/does the same with Torah, which itself has 4 source authors and a 5th redactor. This is a problem for Islam because the Qur'an indicates the Torah as having been "delivered" when in fact it is man-made.

Because Islam is a Christian heresy, it utilizes the same male central figure idol (worship) scheme: mercy upon mankind. It is stated 89 times in the Qur'an that Muhammad serves as the role model and his pattern of conduct is to be emulated.

Given that the historical Muhammad was:
-epileptic; suicidal
-sexually promiscuous/polygamous/infidel
-misogynist; genocidal
-literally confused; forging from apocrypha
-warlord; waged endless war against "unbelievers"
-pedophile

such an example to be used as the highest possible standard for all of humanity (like Jesus in Christianity) will produce nothing better. It is true most Muslims are good people, but they are also victims of a horrendous ideology rooted in deception.

The first victim of the "believing" Muslim is the Muslim. They are indoctrinated to "believe" that the source of all of their misery comes from Jews, Christians, polytheists, unbelievers, infidels, the West etc. thus causing Muslims to appropriate their own suffering as having external sources, when in fact Muslims suffer under Islam.

For example, that Muslims "believe" they are working against all man-made laws and installing god's law (ie. sharia derived from the Qur'an) when in fact they are the ones installing man-made laws has lead to the deaths of hundreds of millions (just between North Africa and India alone).

As such Islam is a cancer on humanity: whenever a problem acts as a solution, destruction will naturally follow. This is exactly what Islam is and why China declared it a mental illness: it is one. "Believing" that the Qur'an came from god is a mental illness, given we know not even the Torah did.

The people (such as quoted) that defend Islam are pathetic and have absolutely no clue the poison of this putrid ideology. Of course such people resort to fascist slander, labeling critics as "Islamophobic" (despite the real phobia coming from Muslims who can't stand criticisms of Islam, an example of Islam blaming everyone else for its own problems), "racist" (Islam is not a race), "bigot", "hater" etc. Such stifling of criticisms reveals Islam can't stand them, hence the need to resort to fascist suppression.

The problem is "BELIEF" and Muslims "BELIEVE" a lot of nonsense that is not anywhere close to being true; not the least of which are the Qur'an lie, the (nature of) Muhammad lie, and the history of Islam lies. Mosques facing Mecca weren't even built until the mid-8th century and Muhammad did not even appear until the late 7th. It's one large cesspool of deception and retrograde tribal "us" vs. "them" mindsets that continues to perpetuate conflict globally - with people who do not "believe" what Muslims "believe".

"Belief" is simply not a virtue;
not "simply believing" is.

You’re free to believe what you wish. But I am a Baha’i and to me all humanity is my family including Muslims.

 

[sooda]

Lol what nonsense is this.

The reason Islam is so dangerous is simple: Muslims "BELIEVE" the Qur'an is the perfect, inimitable, unaltered, inerrant word of god when it is not. It is forged from Christian strophic hymns and apocryphal texts. That Muslims "BELIEVE" a god had anything to do with that book is the problem.

However Islam is not the first to make such a claim: Judaism did/does the same with Torah, which itself has 4 source authors and a 5th redactor. This is a problem for Islam because the Qur'an indicates the Torah as having been "delivered" when in fact it is man-made.

Because Islam is a Christian heresy, it utilizes the same male central figure idol (worship) scheme: mercy upon mankind. It is stated 89 times in the Qur'an that Muhammad serves as the role model and his pattern of conduct is to be emulated.

Given that the historical Muhammad was:
-epileptic; suicidal
-sexually promiscuous/polygamous/infidel
-misogynist; genocidal
-literally confused; forging from apocrypha
-warlord; waged endless war against "unbelievers"
-pedophile

such an example to be used as the highest possible standard for all of humanity (like Jesus in Christianity) will produce nothing better. It is true most Muslims are good people, but they are also victims of a horrendous ideology rooted in deception.

The first victim of the "believing" Muslim is the Muslim. They are indoctrinated to "believe" that the source of all of their misery comes from Jews, Christians, polytheists, unbelievers, infidels, the West etc. thus causing Muslims to appropriate their own suffering as having external sources, when in fact Muslims suffer under Islam.

For example, that Muslims "believe" they are working against all man-made laws and installing god's law (ie. sharia derived from the Qur'an) when in fact they are the ones installing man-made laws has lead to the deaths of hundreds of millions (just between North Africa and India alone).

As such Islam is a cancer on humanity: whenever a problem acts as a solution, destruction will naturally follow. This is exactly what Islam is and why China declared it a mental illness: it is one. "Believing" that the Qur'an came from god is a mental illness, given we know not even the Torah did.

The people (such as quoted) that defend Islam are pathetic and have absolutely no clue the poison of this putrid ideology. Of course such people resort to fascist slander, labeling critics as "Islamophobic" (despite the real phobia coming from Muslims who can't stand criticisms of Islam, an example of Islam blaming everyone else for its own problems), "racist" (Islam is not a race), "bigot", "hater" etc. Such stifling of criticisms reveals Islam can't stand them, hence the need to resort to fascist suppression.

The problem is "BELIEF" and Muslims "BELIEVE" a lot of nonsense that is not anywhere close to being true; not the least of which are the Qur'an lie, the (nature of) Muhammad lie, and the history of Islam lies. Mosques facing Mecca weren't even built until the mid-8th century and Muhammad did not even appear until the late 7th. It's one large cesspool of deception and retrograde tribal "us" vs. "them" mindsets that continues to perpetuate conflict globally - with people who do not "believe" what Muslims "believe".

"Belief" is simply not a virtue;
not "simply believing" is.

The guy that shot up the synagogue in California set fire to a mosque a couple of weeks earlier. Same hatred.. same white nationalism at work.. The problem isn't Christianity.. its a minority of seriously dumb Christians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...ews-white-nationalism/?utm_term=.d29008ef0330

 

[Kk4mds]

The Muslims of Palestine, an area not a nation, were invited to join the the creation of the new nation of Israel. The country of Palestine was created at the same time as Israel. However, Arab propaganda told them that the Jews would kill them and that they should leave so as not to impede the invading Arab armies. Today, Palestinians are kept in refugee camps so as to foment unrest and violence. No Arab nation has offered them citizenship or even permanent residency.

Meanwhile, the Arab Muslims in Israel live in the only Middle Eastern country which has a working democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and, most importantly, freedom of religion. There are no religious police.

 

[Raymann]

ISIS desperately needs new recruits in order to contend with its massive weakness compared with the forces aligned against the group and its incredible unpopularity among Muslims in Muslim-majority countries.

So you believe everything you read?
You are the best supporter of every new conspiracy theory that hits the market.
That was a trashy article written by a nobody trying to make a buck to survive the weekend.
Obviously that didn't work and as you said made the group unpopular even in Muslim countries.

2:190 And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice:

So you defend what is said in Quran 8:39 with a verse all the way on the other side of the book on 2:190?
Are you serious? Talking about context?
And how about the contradiction of most people saying the killing of the messenger was the cause for the war and you saying the Muslims fear of genocide was the cause.
You forgot to answer to that?

No, I'm not buying any of the apologetics excuses for the actions of the barbaric Muslim Attack when in fact the Muslims were never attacked regardless of having a messenger killed. Declaring war and attacking are two different things.
Declaring war doesn't kill anyone, the actual attack is what kills people.

The Muslims overreacted and attacked first that's the bottom line and that is anti-Islamic.

The execution of an ambassador has always been a declaration of war. You cannot kill a nation's emissary without a compelling reason.

Still, a wrongly assumed "Declaration" of war is not an actual "attack".
The Muslims were not attacked, do you get that?

As for the verse you have quoted from the Qur'an. Please note the following:

I notice all sorts of contradictions from Muslims scholars desperately trying to cover up what was an obvious and inexcusable aggression.
Oppression and persecution as a translation for fitnah doesn't make a lot of sense here since the Byzantines were not oppressing nor persecuting the Muslims at the time.
Shirk or mischief makes a little more sense to me.

 

[sooda]

The Muslims of Palestine, an area not a nation, were invited to join the the creation of the new nation of Israel. The country of Palestine was created at the same time as Israel. However, Arab propaganda told them that the Jews would kill them and that they should leave so as not to impede the invading Arab armies. Today, Palestinians are kept in refugee camps so as to foment unrest and violence. No Arab nation has offered them citizenship or even permanent residency.

Meanwhile, the Arab Muslims in Israel live in the only Middle Eastern country which has a working democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and, most importantly, freedom of religion. There are no religious police.

A Jewish only democracy isn't a democracy.. and you don't know anything about the history of Palestine.

 

[sooda]

So you believe everything you read?
You are the best supporter of every new conspiracy theory that hits the market.
That was a trashy article written by a nobody trying to make a buck to survive the weekend.
Obviously that didn't work and as you said made the group unpopular even in Muslim countries.
So you defend what is said in Quran 8:39 with a verse all the way on the other side of the book on 2:190?
Are you serious? Talking about context?
And how about the contradiction of most people saying the killing of the messenger was the cause for the war and you saying the Muslims fear of genocide was the cause.
You forgot to answer to that?

No, I'm not buying any of the apologetics excuses for the actions of the barbaric Muslim Attack when in fact the Muslims were never attacked regardless of having a messenger killed. Declaring war and attacking are two different things.
Declaring war doesn't kill anyone, the actual attack is what kills people.

The Muslims overreacted and attacked first that's the bottom line and that is anti-Islamic.

Still, a wrongly assumed "Declaration" of war is not an actual "attack".
The Muslims were not attacked, do you get that?

I notice all sorts of contradictions from Muslims scholars desperately trying to cover up what was an obvious and inexcusable aggression.
Oppression and persecution as a translation for fitnah doesn't make a lot of sense here since the Byzantines were not oppressing nor persecuting the Muslims at the time.
Shirk or mischief makes a little more sense to me.

What are you blathering about?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Asking for acknowledgment for being peaceful is absurd. It’s like asking for acknowledgment that a society is not using slaves anymore. The rest of the world does not need this kind of recognition because freedom has become somewhat of the norm. Consequently, peace necessarily follows.

To say it’s a minority of Muslims would be correct, but to somehow dismiss Islam has anything to do with it is just plain wrong. People always do what they think is right, but it can get especially muddled by obscure violent and demeaning texts. Where is the Buddhist state and where are their suicide bombers? The majority of terrorism performed today is because of and correlated to Islam. “Despite severe territorial and financial losses, Islamic State remained the deadliest terrorist group in 2017, even though deaths attributed to the group fell by 52 per cent from the prior year.”
https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/Global-Terrorism-Index-2018-1.pdf

You’ll notice a common theme in the terrorist attacks: they’re nearly all related in some way to Islam. Muslims need to learn and be able to take criticism for their ideology. Currently, they get way too emotional over anything against their worldview. Similarly, they need to examine and take criticism over the contention that it may not be a religion of peace.

Ok good we agree then that they are a minority and are not representative of the majority 1.7 billion Muslims. That’s a good start. So that’s settled.

Now is it Islam that is causing terrorism?

For a start I think let’s look at it in this context. In the Quran where do we find such statements as ‘death to Israel’ and ‘ death to America’? Where is hate speech coming from?

Just one example here but there are numerous incidents like these.

Denmark charges imam with incitement for sermon that called for killing Jews - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

Who teaches oppression against minority religions in Iran?

And what is it that causes Mosques to be targeted?

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...ls-extremism-experts-say-20160815-gqt55a.html

Hate speech incited by popular figures whether anti western or anti Muslim is the cause of these attacks and terrorism.

I understand people are angry about terrorism but the Quran forbids anything but self defence.

In those days Muslims had no choice to defend or face annihilation. But only those who attacked them. Not the innocent as it makes clear in this verse.

Verse 60: 8 “God does not forbid you, with regard to those who have not fought you over religion nor expelled you from your homes, from being righteous and just toward them, for God loves those who are just.”

Why did God permit self defense? To prevent genocide it’s clear in this verse.

Pilgrimage 22: 39–40 observes, “He endorsed those who fought because they had been wronged, and in truth God is able to aid them—those who were expelled from their homes unjustly, solely for saying our lord is God. Had God not checked one people with another, then monasteries, churches, oratories and places of worship wherein God is much mentioned would have been razed to the ground.”

The Quran never, ever says to go out and randomly kill and assassinate innocent people. It was always in response to attacks.

And if they don’t fight the Muslims?

4:91

But if they depart from you, and fight not against you, and offer you peace, GOD doth not allow you to take or kill them.

10:25

And God calls unto the Abode of Peace,

After Muhammad passed away and left no successor then the Caliphs took power and soon after Sunni and Shiah sects developed.

The Sunnis led by the Umayyad and the Abbasid dynasties departed from the explicit texts of the Quran and embarked upon conquests for power, land and wealth but converts were not won all from violence,. Christianity was in its Dark Ages sect against sect driving Christians away from Christianity and the Muslims offering a better social order found easy converts.

According to John Draper, historian and author of ‘History of the Intellectual Development Of Europe he states that...

“It is altogether a misconception that the Arabian progress was due to the sword alone”

“When, therefore, in the midst of the wrangling of sects” (Of Christianity)

“What an example when bishops were concerned in assassinations, poisonings, adulteries, blindings, riots, Civil weakness produced by ecclesiastical demoralization”..

“Certainly men could not be expected, if a time of necessity arose, to give help to a system that had lost all hold on their hearts.”

But the violence as well as the Crusades were never supported by the Holy Books. Just politicians using religion like the priests have to sexually abuse children for centuries which is not a part of the Bible. Religious leaders are the real culprits of violence and abuse not God, His Prophets and Holy Writings.

 

[9-18-1]

You’re free to believe what you wish. But I am a Baha’i and to me all humanity is my family including Muslims.

"BELIEF" is not a virtue - I don't "believe" things.

This said I know the Qur'an is forged and did not come from a god. I've researched the origins of the Qur'an and traced it back to its original sources, which I have read and cross-referenced with the Qur'an, and found it to be certain that the book is a forgery.

This is not a "belief", this is known to me. It takes "belief" to "believe" that a merchant war lord was receiving revelations from an angel.

However again, Islam is not the first to make such a claim. The same is/was made for the Torah, which itself utilizes 4 sources with a 5th redactor. I also know that the historical "Moses" was based on the Egyptian Akhunatun who lived a parallel life, got kicked out of Egypt with his followers of his Atun monotheism.

This mixed with the Canaanite tribes and became Judaism.

The guy that shot up the synagogue in California set fire to a mosque a couple of weeks earlier. Same hatred.. same white nationalism at work.. The problem isn't Christianity.. its a minority of seriously dumb Christians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...ews-white-nationalism/?utm_term=.d29008ef0330

Oh, so you're a racist too. Nationalism doesn't have anything to do with skin color - only racists normalize this expression in accordance with the hatred generated by Islam. Islam has carried out more terrorist attacks in places of worship than all faiths combined. The fact that Islam politically exploited this is telling of something much more sinister.

Again, the problem is the state of Islam itself. The Qur'an did not come from a god (it was compiled hundreds of miles north of Mecca), and Mecca did not even exist at the time of Muhammad as a city. The earlier Muslims used to face Petra.

Any religion which uses a male patriarchal central figure (especially a warlord one whose "example" is practically infidel) and spilling blood over criticisms of this idol is precisely what (real) idol worship is.

That Muslim women are blamed for the iniquity of men is precisely why the Biblical Adam was cast out of Eden: he tried to blame the woman for his own eating the fruit. That is exactly what Muhammadan men tend toward: blaming everything on the women and treating non-Muslim women (ie. women that do not "believe" Muhammad is a role model) as war spoils.

This is sub-human barbarism. Not that Muslims are sub-human (some are, but so are some non-Muslims) but the ideology of Islam as a personless state is pure patriarchal male-dominated phallic worship barbarism: the institutionalization of sexual degeneracy (ie. pedophilia) which rots the brain (ie. Eve gives the fruit to Adam).

All of this is in the first book of "Moses"... who was not even a Hebrew and did not lead a Potent exodus. The whole Abrahamic pantheon is built on lie upon lie, beginning with the Canaanites/Jews of antiquity post-Akhunatun.

 

[charlie sc]

Ok good we agree then that they are a minority and are not representative of the majority 1.7 billion Muslims. That’s a good start. So that’s settled.

Now is it Islam that is causing terrorism?

For a start I think let’s look at it in this context. In the Quran where do we find such statements as ‘death to Israel’ and ‘ death to America’? Where is hate speech coming from?

Just one example here but there are numerous incidents like these.

Denmark charges imam with incitement for sermon that called for killing Jews - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

Who teaches oppression against minority religions in Iran?

And what is it that causes Mosques to be targeted?

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...ls-extremism-experts-say-20160815-gqt55a.html

Hate speech incited by popular figures whether anti western or anti Muslim is the cause of these attacks and terrorism.

I understand people are angry about terrorism but the Quran forbids anything but self defence.

In those days Muslims had no choice to defend or face annihilation. But only those who attacked them. Not the innocent as it makes clear in this verse.

Verse 60: 8 “God does not forbid you, with regard to those who have not fought you over religion nor expelled you from your homes, from being righteous and just toward them, for God loves those who are just.”

Why did God permit self defense? To prevent genocide it’s clear in this verse.

Pilgrimage 22: 39–40 observes, “He endorsed those who fought because they had been wronged, and in truth God is able to aid them—those who were expelled from their homes unjustly, solely for saying our lord is God. Had God not checked one people with another, then monasteries, churches, oratories and places of worship wherein God is much mentioned would have been razed to the ground.”

The Quran never, ever says to go out and randomly kill and assassinate innocent people. It was always in response to attacks.

And if they don’t fight the Muslims?

4:91

But if they depart from you, and fight not against you, and offer you peace, GOD doth not allow you to take or kill them.

10:25

And God calls unto the Abode of Peace,

After Muhammad passed away and left no successor then the Caliphs took power and soon after Sunni and Shiah sects developed.

The Sunnis led by the Umayyad and the Abbasid dynasties departed from the explicit texts of the Quran and embarked upon conquests for power, land and wealth but converts were not won all from violence,. Christianity was in its Dark Ages sect against sect driving Christians away from Christianity and the Muslims offering a better social order found easy converts.

According to John Draper, historian and author of ‘History of the Intellectual Development Of Europe he states that...

“It is altogether a misconception that the Arabian progress was due to the sword alone”

“When, therefore, in the midst of the wrangling of sects” (Of Christianity)

“What an example when bishops were concerned in assassinations, poisonings, adulteries, blindings, riots, Civil weakness produced by ecclesiastical demoralization”..

“Certainly men could not be expected, if a time of necessity arose, to give help to a system that had lost all hold on their hearts.”

But the violence as well as the Crusades were never supported by the Holy Books. Just politicians using religion like the priests have to sexually abuse children for centuries which is not a part of the Bible. Religious leaders are the real culprits of violence and abuse not God, His Prophets and Holy Writings.

You've succinctly and, I think, Intellectually honestly explained why islam and the Quran does not promote violence and instead promotes peace. However, I won't let you divert this topic to other ideologies, attitudes or events. This topic is about Islam. This is not me defending the actions of others; this is me making sure a tu quoque fallacy does not occur by refusing to engage in deflection and redirection. I've noticed this is a fairly common tactic, perhaps not a conscious act, among some individuals in these forums like my favourite sooda here.

Without further ado, can you explain with all the succinctness and intellectual honesty you've displayed, what the Quran and/or Hadiths say about disbelievers and polytheists?
This includes what Allah says about them. If you can be intellectually honest about this, we can go further in the dialogue.

 

[kiwimac]

"BELIEF" is not a virtue - I don't "believe" things.

This said I know the Qur'an is forged and did not come from a god. I've researched the origins of the Qur'an and traced it back to its original sources, which I have read and cross-referenced with the Qur'an, and found it to be certain that the book is a forgery.

This is not a "belief", this is known to me. It takes "belief" to "believe" that a merchant war lord was receiving revelations from an angel.

However again, Islam is not the first to make such a claim. The same is/was made for the Torah, which itself utilizes 4 sources with a 5th redactor. I also know that the historical "Moses" was based on the Egyptian Akhunatun who lived a parallel life, got kicked out of Egypt with his followers of his Atun monotheism.

This mixed with the Canaanite tribes and became Judaism.



Oh, so you're a racist too. Nationalism doesn't have anything to do with skin color - only racists normalize this expression in accordance with the hatred generated by Islam. Islam has carried out more terrorist attacks in places of worship than all faiths combined. The fact that Islam politically exploited this is telling of something much more sinister.

Again, the problem is the state of Islam itself. The Qur'an did not come from a god (it was compiled hundreds of miles north of Mecca), and Mecca did not even exist at the time of Muhammad as a city. The earlier Muslims used to face Petra.

Any religion which uses a male patriarchal central figure (especially a warlord one whose "example" is practically infidel) and spilling blood over criticisms of this idol is precisely what (real) idol worship is.

That Muslim women are blamed for the iniquity of men is precisely why the Biblical Adam was cast out of Eden: he tried to blame the woman for his own eating the fruit. That is exactly what Muhammadan men tend toward: blaming everything on the women and treating non-Muslim women (ie. women that do not "believe" Muhammad is a role model) as war spoils.

This is sub-human barbarism. Not that Muslims are sub-human (some are, but so are some non-Muslims) but the ideology of Islam as a personless state is pure patriarchal male-dominated phallic worship barbarism: the institutionalization of sexual degeneracy (ie. pedophilia) which rots the brain (ie. Eve gives the fruit to Adam).

All of this is in the first book of "Moses"... who was not even a Hebrew and did not lead a Potent exodus. The whole Abrahamic pantheon is built on lie upon lie, beginning with the Canaanites/Jews of antiquity post-Akhunatun.

Rot and nonsense.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So you believe everything you read?
You are the best supporter of every new conspiracy theory that hits the market.
That was a trashy article written by a nobody trying to make a buck to survive the weekend.
Obviously that didn't work and as you said made the group unpopular even in Muslim countries.
So you defend what is said in Quran 8:39 with a verse all the way on the other side of the book on 2:190?
Are you serious? Talking about context?
And how about the contradiction of most people saying the killing of the messenger was the cause for the war and you saying the Muslims fear of genocide was the cause.
You forgot to answer to that?

No, I'm not buying any of the apologetics excuses for the actions of the barbaric Muslim Attack when in fact the Muslims were never attacked regardless of having a messenger killed. Declaring war and attacking are two different things.
Declaring war doesn't kill anyone, the actual attack is what kills people.

The Muslims overreacted and attacked first that's the bottom line and that is anti-Islamic.

Still, a wrongly assumed "Declaration" of war is not an actual "attack".
The Muslims were not attacked, do you get that?

I notice all sorts of contradictions from Muslims scholars desperately trying to cover up what was an obvious and inexcusable aggression.
Oppression and persecution as a translation for fitnah doesn't make a lot of sense here since the Byzantines were not oppressing nor persecuting the Muslims at the time.
Shirk or mischief makes a little more sense to me.

Throughout all history both Christians and Muslim’s have been at each other’s throats but mainly for political purposes.

Now is the time for us to reconcile our differences and make peace. If we want peace we all must contribute by speaking well of each other and respecting one another.

Speaking disparagingly of other peoples religion is not the way to create peace and goodwill which is what the world really needs so badly now.

I want to see humanity as a family and the religions at peace and the only way to do that is to be tolerant towards those who have different beliefs. The majority of Muslims are good people and I accept them as friends as I do any person but as to criminals that’s for the law to deal with.

So I dedicate my time and effort in trying to build bridges and clearing away misunderstandings and there are many. But it’s worthwhile to me in trying to promote peace between east and west as there has been enough wars and enough killing and it’s time we began sheathing our swords and speaking about peace. Visiting each other’s churches, eating together and mixing with friendship and fellowship.

The time for conflict must end and it’s up to us if we take this priceless opportunity to bring about peace or the next generation will do it. It would be a real pity to let this opportunity go. I’m seizing the chance so that at least in my life I know I did my best to promote peace and goodwill.

There is nothing more rewarding than to know one has been a cause of peace and understanding between people . To be a source of goodness. I hope you don’t deprive yourself of this opportunity to promote peace and goodwill between people.