Why is it so controversial?

[Master Vigil]

Actually I am a Taoist Mystic. And yeah, scripture is read ALOT in catholic mass. But it is not the whole point of mass. The point of catholic mass is the eucharist. Something that protestants don't do every week. The whole catholic mass is a ritual which ends in the eucharist. The bible is just a guide, not something that is infallible. It was written by inperfect humans. I would say that catholics wrote the bible, (the new testament anyway) for they were the first christians. Hmmm... Maybe what they teach is really what is supposed to be taught from the bible, since they wrote it.

"If you believe that there may be important things left out in the Bible, then we cannot trust it at all. Which may then make Jesus a liar and therefore not perfect, because the Bible says he was sinless. And if Jesus is a liar, then God is a liar and every one should burn the Bible."

You said it. However, I wouldn't say jesus was a liar, I would say that humans are imperfect and write imperfect things which include the bible. I also think that your view of christianity is of course YOURS, no one elses. Therefore if people were only christian if they followed your perception of it, than you are the only one. What a lonely world you live in.

 

[Ceridwen018]

Master Vigil brought up an excellent point--about Catholics having been the first Christians and all. It also exploits the vague concept that is 'divine inspiration'. The Cathoplics have about 5 or so extra books in their bible that other denominations don't, because they feel that these were also inspired by god, but who is to say yes or no? Is there a 'divine inspiration' handbook that preists and other religious leaders can whip out when presented with new documents to give them an approximate 'divine breath' reading?

 

[Sunstone]

Keevelish states:

“Christianity is not the huge umbrella that many think it is. It IS a simple belief. Jesus died for humanity. The strife that occurs in the so-called "complicated" Christianity is not even involved in Christianity. To be Christian means to be Christ-like. How can someone be Christian if they don't read the Bible and learn what Jesus was like, his attributes, his desires, his passion, and his purpose? Catholics are not Christian. Mormons are not Christian. Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian.”

One of the things that complicates Christianity is the very tendency of Christians to spend so much time fighting over who is or isn’t a proper Christian.

 

[anders]

The fight over who is a Christian was there from the very beginning of Christianity. At the outset, it was mainly political. The reason that Catholics seem to be the first Christians is that they were successful. During the first few hundred years CE, there were for example several Gnostic varieties of Christianity, which regarded Catholics as heretics. The winning Catholics ordered Gnostic "heretical" scriptures to be burned, but fortunately many of them have survived and been recovered. There are several more or less Gnostic gospels and other writings, and we can find many of them on the Internet, like the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary of Magdala.

I was surprised to see the mentioning of denominational Bibles. The only one I had heard of, is the version of Jehova's Witnesses. I own several Bibles in several languages, but I can't link any one to a denomination. The most recent Swedish Bible, the "Bibel 2000" is even non-confessional; there were representatives of the Jewish community on the editorial board, and not all translators/editors were confessing Christians.

Further confusing to me was Ceridwen's statement "The Catholics have about 5 or so extra books in their bible that other denominations don't". Do you refer to the apocrypha? In Bibel 2000 there are 11 OT apocrypha/deuterocanonical texts. From 1541 to the beginning of the 20th C, there were even more in Swedish Bibles. The Revised English Bible (with Catholics as well as several Protestant churches on its editorial board) has 15.

 

[Aristotle]

I am a retired attorney who has been fascinated by the variety of intepretations of the Bible's text. In discussing this with hundreds of people on the Internet as research for a book I will be writing on the subject, I found many interesting and varied interpretations concerning the stories in the Bible, in response to my questions in that regard. Almost all correspondents found that my questions have deepened their interest into whatever they believe in. If anyone is interested in corresponding with me to assist in my gaining further information, please feel free to e-mail me at my address: ideacollectora1.

 

[Aristotle]

I am a retired attorney who has been fascinated by the variety of intepretations of the Bible's text. In discussing this with hundreds of people on the Internet as research for a book I will be writing on the subject, I found many interesting and varied interpretations concerning the stories in the Bible, in response to my questions in that regard. Almost all correspondents found that my questions have deepened their interest into whatever they believe in. If anyone is interested in corresponding with me to assist in my gaining further information, please feel free to e-mail me at my address: ideacollectora1.

 

[Ronald]

Well, am I out-numbered here, the Christian and his trinity, un-believer, logic, good man, the Island, the up-right and Egoist. I guess not! I was at one time just as they all are. An un believing, logical, up-right, Good, full of myself not needing anyone or thing brought up in the Bible Belt, accepting a triune Jesus man God Holy Ghost!
Little did I know, I would live long enough to find out just how inept and pathetic I was.
Yes, At one time I could have written all of the above posts!
I don't wish my life upon any of you! In my old age I discovered the truth. I went to the brink and am here to confirm my need for a Creator God, Just and forgiving.
It is my hope, you do not have to go as far to believe, as I did, But I hope and pray you come to believe.

 

[Master Vigil]

I believe in the spirits I deal with everyday Ronald. There is an essence that binds all things. But it is not the god in the bible. I wish I could impart the knowledge in which I gain from being in the spirit realm. However, this is not possible for it can not be understood in words. There are spirits, and there is chi. There is no just and forgiving god, only Tao. Enlightenment comes to those who seek to be enlightened. Not those who need it. You are not alone, you are one with everything. Everything is connected. Everything happens for a reason, there is no luck. I know people want to just put their life in gods hands. This can be done, however I don't believe it to be in "gods" hands though. I believe when one does this, they put it in the way of the Tao. The way of life, of nature, the way the music plays. The way the flutes carry off into the distant mountains. The way the stream always finds its way to the ocean. The way the trees weave their branches so artistically. The way a deer runs effortlessly through the wood. The way the wolf's howls follows its way into the soul. The way the moon makes the blood boil. This is the way of life. This is where I find enlightenment and peace. Not inside the pages of a book. But in the pages and poetry written in the moonlight, at dusk, at dawn. I have no need for forgiving or justice when I die. I only need good soil for my body to lay. I need the moon to keep shining, the wind to keep blowing, and the crickets to keep chirping.

 

[keevelish]

Actually, much of the Bible IS poetry master vigil.

 

[Christ Michael]

I believe in the spirits I deal with everyday Ronald. There is an essence that binds all things. But it is not the god in the bible. I wish I could impart the knowledge in which I gain from being in the spirit realm. However, this is not possible for it can not be understood in words. There are spirits, and there is chi. There is no just and forgiving god, only Tao. Enlightenment comes to those who seek to be enlightened. Not those who need it. You are not alone, you are one with everything. Everything is connected. Everything happens for a reason, there is no luck. I know people want to just put their life in gods hands. This can be done, however I don't believe it to be in "gods" hands though. I believe when one does this, they put it in the way of the Tao. The way of life, of nature, the way the music plays. The way the flutes carry off into the distant mountains. The way the stream always finds its way to the ocean. The way the trees weave their branches so artistically. The way a deer runs effortlessly through the wood. The way the wolf's howls follows its way into the soul. The way the moon makes the blood boil. This is the way of life. This is where I find enlightenment and peace. Not inside the pages of a book. But in the pages and poetry written in the moonlight, at dusk, at dawn. I have no need for forgiving or justice when I die. I only need good soil for my body to lay. I need the moon to keep shining, the wind to keep blowing, and the crickets to keep chirping.

Nature is a time-space resultant of two cosmic factors: first, the immutability, perfection, and rectitude of Paradise Deity, and second, the experimental plans, executive blunders, insurrectionary errors, incompleteness of development, and imperfection of wisdom of the extra-Paradise creatures, from the highest to the lowest. Nature therefore carries a uniform, unchanging, majestic, and marvelous thread of perfection from the circle of eternity; but in each universe, on each planet, and in each individual life, this nature is modified, qualified, and perchance


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marred by the acts, the mistakes, and the disloyalties of the creatures of the evolutionary systems and universes; and therefore must nature ever be of a changing mood, whimsical withal, though stable underneath, and varied in accordance with the operating procedures of a local universe.

Nature is the perfection of Paradise divided by the incompletion, evil, and sin of the unfinished universes. This quotient is thus expressive of both the perfect and the partial, of both the eternal and the temporal. Continuing evolution modifies nature by augmenting the content of Paradise perfection and by diminishing the content of the evil, error, and disharmony of relative reality.

God is not personally present in nature or in any of the forces of nature, for the phenomenon of nature is the superimposition of the imperfections of progressive evolution and, sometimes, the consequences of insurrectionary rebellion, upon the Paradise foundations of God's universal law. As it appears on such a world as Urantia, nature can never be the adequate expression, the true representation, the faithful portrayal, of an all-wise and infinite God.

Nature, on your world, is a qualification of the laws of perfection by the evolutionary plans of the local universe. What a travesty to worship nature because it is in a limited, qualified sense pervaded by God; because it is a phase of the universal and, therefore, divine power! Nature also is a manifestation of the unfinished, the incomplete, the imperfect outworkings of the development, growth, and progress of a universe experiment in cosmic evolution.

The apparent defects of the natural world are not indicative of any such corresponding defects in the character of God. Rather are such observed imperfections merely the inevitable stop-moments in the exhibition of the ever-moving reel of infinity picturization. It is these very defect-interruptions of perfection-continuity which make it possible for the finite mind of material man to catch a fleeting glimpse of divine reality in time and space. The material manifestations of divinity appear defective to the evolutionary mind of man only because mortal man persists in viewing the phenomena of nature through natural eyes, human vision unaided by morontia mota or by revelation, its compensatory substitute on the worlds of time.

And nature is marred, her beautiful face is scarred, her features are seared, by the rebellion, the misconduct, the misthinking of the myriads of creatures who are a part of nature, but who have contributed to her disfigurement in time. No, nature is not God. Nature is not an object of worship.


[from The Urantia Book]

P.S. The worship of nature is a very poor philosophy to have in one's life, and it is very shortsighted and defeatist.Don't care about eternal life, do you, Master Vigil ??



Cheers

 

[Allan]

God is an energizing spirit, instantly manifesting every thing that is seen.

We have our being and presence in a creation.

After a spontaneous unsearched for supernatural experience I read the Bible and found it enlightening but a hard read.

I visited Churches and was curious about their worship.

I decided that what they were doing is described in the Bible as unworthy communion.

People attempting to enter into a Holy Place in an unworthy manner. This causes power but more in the human Realm of the Mind. I noticed the women seemed emmotionaly unbalanced or very strong in themselves. The men were either dominated passive, or strong. It was no different to business, clubs, politics, except the power was being stirred up.

Some churches play it safe and never enter the spirtual realm. They are social places.

I do not believe they know what they are doing or what they are playing around with. To me they have deluded themselves into thinking they have something.

Any combined human gathering can have a spirit. A football game, a political rally, a comedy show, when emmotions run together there is power.

The Bible talks about a process and a dynamic way of experiencing Love, pure and energizing. A complete seperation from the human realm of the mind, this going beyond self realization.

A way of actively crucifying the last aspects of the self to enter a higher realm that has a different mind, expressing nothing sinister but a so gentle nature that is incomprehensible to the natural mind.