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Why Is Jesus As A Sacrifice OK?

74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
taykair said:
I'm going to butt in here for a moment, make a crazy comment, then leave as quickly as possible...

You are a regular, run-of-the-mill human being. You are cut severely. You can bind the wound and seek treatment and live, or you can choose to lie where you are and bleed to death. If you choose to bleed to death, you are, in effect, committing suicide.

Now imagine that you are a super-being. You cannot die unless you want to do so. You choose to allow the authorities to put you to death. You call it sacrifice. But is it? Or is it suicide?

We now return to our regular program, Christians vs. Lions - The Rematch, already in progress...
Click to expand...
Between Martyrdom and suicide there is often a fine line. So, if soldiers are in a foxhole and a grenade comes in. One lies on top of it to save his buddies. Yes it's technically suicide; yet by all fair minds understood as a righteous act. In fact, more than righteous, but exemplary and commendable. The point is Jesus willingly died in our place according to the good news.
 
Hockeycowboy

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
First of all, the Bible doesn’t depict Jesus as being forced into it. He did so willingly, as if he understood the reason for it.
So there’s that.

Plus, what were all those animal sacrifices in the Law for? It wasn’t just ritual....there were reasons behind them: mostly to atone for the Israelites’ sins, but also for communion, and dedication...
(I’ve removed references to JC; the information might whet your appetite to read the article?):

“OFFERINGS
From early times men have presented offerings to God. In the first recorded instance, Adam’s oldest son Cain presented some fruits of the ground, and Adam’s younger son Abel, the firstlings of his flock. Evidently the attitudes and motives of the two brothers were different, for God approved Abel’s offering but looked with disfavor on Cain’s. (Later, the Law covenant provided for both animal and grain offerings.) Abel must have had faith in God’s promise of liberation through the promised Seed and likely realized that blood would have to be shed.....
The family head Noah, on coming out of the ark, offered a thanksgiving sacrifice to Jehovah that was “restful” (soothing, tranquilizing), after which Jehovah made the “rainbow” covenant with Noah and his offspring. (Ge 8:18-22; 9:8-16) We read later of the faithful patriarchs’ presenting offerings to Jehovah. (Ge 31:54; 46:1) Job, as family head, acted as priest for his family, sacrificing burnt offerings to God in their behalf. (Job 1:5) The most notable and significant of ancient sacrifices was Abraham’s attempt to offer up Isaac, at Jehovah’s direction. Jehovah, after observing Abraham’s faith and obedience, kindly provided a ram as substitute...
Under the Law...Both the Israelite and the alien resident who worshiped Jehovah were included in presenting the various offerings.—Nu 15:26, 29.
Burnt offerings. Burnt offerings were presented in their entirety to God; no part of the animal being retained by the worshiper. (Compare Jg 11:30, 31, 39, 40.) They constituted an appeal to Jehovah to accept, or to signify acceptance of, the sin offering that sometimes accompanied them.”

The article goes on to describe certain sacrifices, and the meaning behind them. It almost always represented the path to having a good relationship with God.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003298#h=2

Take care, my cousin.
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Hockeycowboy said:
First of all, the Bible doesn’t depict Jesus as being forced into it. He did so willingly, as if he understood the reason for it.
So there’s that.

Plus, what were all those animal sacrifices in the Law for? It wasn’t just ritual....there were reasons behind them: mostly to atone for the Israelites’ sins, but also for communion, and dedication...
(I’ve removed references to JC; the information might whet your appetite to read the article?):

“OFFERINGS
From early times men have presented offerings to God. In the first recorded instance, Adam’s oldest son Cain presented some fruits of the ground, and Adam’s younger son Abel, the firstlings of his flock. Evidently the attitudes and motives of the two brothers were different, for God approved Abel’s offering but looked with disfavor on Cain’s. (Later, the Law covenant provided for both animal and grain offerings.) Abel must have had faith in God’s promise of liberation through the promised Seed and likely realized that blood would have to be shed.....
The family head Noah, on coming out of the ark, offered a thanksgiving sacrifice to Jehovah that was “restful” (soothing, tranquilizing), after which Jehovah made the “rainbow” covenant with Noah and his offspring. (Ge 8:18-22; 9:8-16) We read later of the faithful patriarchs’ presenting offerings to Jehovah. (Ge 31:54; 46:1) Job, as family head, acted as priest for his family, sacrificing burnt offerings to God in their behalf. (Job 1:5) The most notable and significant of ancient sacrifices was Abraham’s attempt to offer up Isaac, at Jehovah’s direction. Jehovah, after observing Abraham’s faith and obedience, kindly provided a ram as substitute...
Under the Law...Both the Israelite and the alien resident who worshiped Jehovah were included in presenting the various offerings.—Nu 15:26, 29.
Burnt offerings. Burnt offerings were presented in their entirety to God; no part of the animal being retained by the worshiper. (Compare Jg 11:30, 31, 39, 40.) They constituted an appeal to Jehovah to accept, or to signify acceptance of, the sin offering that sometimes accompanied them.”

The article goes on to describe certain sacrifices, and the meaning behind them. It almost always represented the path to having a good relationship with God.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003298#h=2

Take care, my cousin.
Click to expand...

If I may say...the first recorded sacrifice was when God killed two animals to clothed Adam and Eve with.

So the first animal sacrifice was done by God for the sin of Adam and Eve..

Genesis 3:21--"Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them"
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Rival said:
Why is it alright in the Christian religion for Jesus to be a human sacrifice when all throughout Tanach G-d dismays of such practices and does not command them?
Click to expand...

I do not believe the act condones the evil of those doing it. The fact is that Jesus led a sinless life and was innocent of any wrongdoing. In this world filled with evil, being innocent is a sacrifice.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Jumi said:
Never understood sacrifices. I don't think God has need of anything, least of all of sacrificing himself in some form.
Click to expand...

I believe it is like the snake on the pole. People have to see how terrible their sin is. Sin brings death. That is what all the sacrifices tell us and Paul reiterates it.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Phantasman said:
One of the many reasons I don't see the OT god and Jesus Father as the same.

John 6:
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

Father with a capital F.
Click to expand...

I believe I don't see any valid reasoning. God certainly can be against sacrificing children and still be for self sacrifice in order to save others.
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
Why is it alright in the Christian religion for Jesus to be a human sacrifice when all throughout Tanach G-d dismays of such practices and does not command them?
Click to expand...

I think it depends on what is meant with sacrifice. Jesus was not sacrifice in the way people sacrificed for example animals by killing them. Jesus didn’t kill himself as a sacrifice and people didn’t kill him as a sacrifice. Jesus used his life to teach us the way to God. He could have chosen selfish life and become great earthly ruler, but instead he didn’t use his life for himself, but went and preached the Gospel so that we could find life.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
74x12 said:
Between Martyrdom and suicide there is often a fine line. So, if soldiers are in a foxhole and a grenade comes in. One lies on top of it to save his buddies. Yes it's technically suicide; yet by all fair minds understood as a righteous act. In fact, more than righteous, but exemplary and commendable.
Click to expand...
How so?

I mean, I understand how this is commendable in atheistic terms, but if Heaven is better than Earth, and if the person jumping on the grenade is just delaying Heaven for his buddies and gets to go there immediately himself, he hasn't done his buddies any favours.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
The Ragin Pagan said:
I know so. Especially since the Pharaoh and his people were strung along in the myth, their wills forced to cause the plagues and stroke Yahweh's ego.
Click to expand...

Well then you have not understood what a sacrifice is in the Tanakh.

I can see that you dont believe in any of this. It is not about believing, but understanding. You have not understood it. Anyway, rather than making any assumptions about someone's scripture and making that kind of statement, just ask them.

If you dont wish to understand at all and simply call all of this God's ego that's unto you. Maybe its all ego, maybe not. First though, ask and understand. Otherwise its only your ego.

Cheers.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
No death; then no resurrection and if Jesus isn't resurrected then no one is. So Jesus willingly died to live again for us. Because we're doomed to die. So what hope do we have if we can't live again?
 
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