Why is Obama labeled "black?"

[lilithu]

Im proud..Im totally of northern Eroupean decent for 100's of years back in America..

On both my maternal and frateral side ...
and I am GRATEFUL my forefathers names can be traced for 100's of years..

I think thats a priveledge and a blessing..

Love

Dallas

Which countries, Dallas?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Why in the world are you insulted that I said it's great for Euro-Americans to explore their ancestry?

Whatever dude.

Because you're putting restrictions on what we can be proud of. Explore all you want but don't be proud to be white. I'm supposed to keep my cultural pride hidden and explore it in secret because to express any pride publicly would be racist. I get really tired of being told I have to feel guilty for being white. I'm not guilty of anything and I refuse to pretend to feel guilty for what others have done. So go ahead, point out that I'm very defensive and that must prove that I'm secretly a racist and I don't even know it.

 

[dawny0826]

Because you're putting restrictions on what we can be proud of. Explore all you want but don't be proud to be white. I'm supposed to keep my cultural pride hidden and explore it in secret because to express any pride publicly would be racist. I get really tired of being told I have to feel guilty for being white. I'm not guilty of anything and I refuse to pretend to feel guilty for what others have done. So go ahead, point out that I'm very defensive and that must prove that I'm secretly a racist and I don't even know it.

Well said.

 

[FFH]

I wondered the exact same thing katz, why do we think Barack is black, when he's also half white ???

Technically Barack is not our first black President, he's our first multiracial President.

 

[gnomon]

Perception is the reality for everyone. What in the world makes you think that just because your kids have had a different experience than Obama that means that Obama's reality is only based on his perception while your kids' reality is based on something more objective??


Speaking from experience, it beats the alternative.


That's because there is very little there other than the white privilege. There's a bit of cultural content, such as the use off the English language and certain popular holidays, but even those are just expressions of white privilege. "White" is a status that certain groups obtain in this culture, which affords them privilege over others. Which also explains why white is seen negatively, because it is by its very nature based on inequity and oppression. Groups such as the Irish and the Italians and Poles were seen as "not white" for generations and only attained "whiteness" post-WWI. Members of other groups such as Asian Indians have sued in order to be recognized as "white" and lost.

If you want to explore culture, explore your ethnicity and nationality, not your race. Race, all "races" are the result this white privilege and the other groups orienting around that concept. There was no concept of "Asian" identity until colonialization. The same with African and Latin-American and Native American.

Let me put it this way:
Chinese pride - great.
Mexican pride - fine.
Irish pride - dandy.
Indian pride - super.
German pride - swell.
Jamaican pride - wonderful.
Norwegian pride - cool.

White pride - NO.

If you want to explore your European ancestry and culture, that's fantastic. That takes you out of the center of white privilege and into the periphery of being an ethnicity, like everyone else, with "American" at the center. True, multi-cultural American, not white American as is the case now. (And yeah, multiple ethnicities are fine.) That's why Zephyr and I get along. Pride in one's European ancestry is not the same as "white pride." It's a shame that many white Americans don't see that and try to do the "I don't see color" thing. Or the "We're all the same" thing.

As for African-Americans, their ancestors were forcibly cut off from their cultures and transplanted over here. Many descendants do not know their exact ethnic heritage and often times are mixed anyway, due to masters raping their slaves. (Which makes the OP quite ironic, as the vast majority of those whom we call "black" in this country are already of mixed race.) Many Africans do not see African-Americans as kindred. For many blacks, the only culture that they have is African American or "black" culture. Tho some are exploring West African culture, which is where most of the slaves came from.

The point of view I come from is all my self-identification is solely founded upon my beliefs, actions and the environment in which I was raised. That environment is multi-cultural.

I don't like to come down on an individuals self-identification. I've come to understand that is their view and their is no call to speak against it.

But just watching my nephew grow and his struggles and knowing that any aspect of the labels white (father), Cambodian (mothers nationality), Asian-American or Chinese (mothers ethnicity) actually inform very little beyond some superficial cultural characteristics reveal nothing about his life growing up that I get to witness. Having watched people start acting and re-identifying to fit their skin color or ethnic background to fit stereotyped ideals when they moved from childhood to adolescence also informs that cultural identification in America is less to do with reality and more to do with idealizing stereotypes.

I've already explored enough of my ancestry thanks to the genealogical investigations of some relatives to find Cornish, English, Creek and Jewish ancestry. Also that most of my ancestors were born on this side of the Atlantic for the last 350 years. Means nothing to me. Only the people I have known and the manner in which I shape myself matters. Pride and character are self-generated. Not inherited.

I don't know why I'm this way. Most of my relatives are not. Most of my friends are not. Actually many of my relatives and former relations were outright bigots. One of the reasons I do not really associate with them any more. Maybe it's a distancing but there's more to it.

Personally, I never desire to be identified with any ethnic group. It reveals absolutely nothing about me. But I cannot overlook the role manic-depression played in it. Something like that just kind of removes you from everything.

Gee.....that was depressing.

 

[lilithu]

Because you're putting restrictions on what we can be proud of. Explore all you want but don't be proud to be white. I'm supposed to keep my cultural pride hidden and explore it in secret because to express any pride publicly would be racist.

What "cultural pride" do you have in being "white" that you can't express in your Anglo Saxon ethnicity and heritage? Please, name an example. Just one. :sarcastic

It's as if you didn't understand a thing I wrote.

 

[dawny0826]

I wondered the exact same thing, why do we insist on calling Barack black, when he's also half white ???

Why not call him white ???

I suppose it all boils down to how he identifies himself.

 

[gnomon]

I wondered the exact same thing katz, why do we insist on calling Barack black, when he's also half white ???

Why not call him white ???

There's this thing about the half white/half black or even the 1/8 Irish, 1/2 German, 3/16 this or whatever that troubles me.

Seems like an absurd measurement.

Especially when people makes these claims they cannot even speak the languages of the ethnic groups they list. Or hold to any of the unique, whatever they may be, cultural values of those groups. Which would mean they cannot make any claim at all.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Why do most people insist on labeling him African American?

I would ask "Why does it matter"?

 

[DallasApple]

Which countries, Dallas?

England and Scottland..and more England..

"America" is a young country...I have ancestory here dating back to the "founding" of the country (with the English)..as well as my great great grandfather on my maternal side loved and married a native American.

But I "came" from Scottish and English..

My aunt has traced us back..and like I said Im grateful I get to know these things..

My grandmother (on my maternal side) is almost 100 years old..She gives me the names on her side..But my aunt is the one who took it "serious" and finds documents..

Here is what I love my grandmother sings to me...

"Went down town on a whiskey wagon"

"Came back home with my toe nails draggin"

No body's business but my own".

And my grandmother doesnt drink.!

Her name is Dorsey Gray Abercrombie..



Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

There's this thing about the half white/half black or even the 1/8 Irish, 1/2 German, 3/16 this or whatever that troubles me.

Seems like an absurd measurement.

Especially when people makes these claims they cannot even speak the languages of the ethnic groups they list. Or hold to any of the unique, whatever they may be, cultural values of those groups. Which would mean they cannot make any claim at all.

From what I understand..If you have ANY "black" in you then you are considered "black".

It doesnt matter what color your skin is..

Love

Dallas

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

What "cultural pride" do you have in being "white" that you can't express in your Anglo Saxon ethnicity and heritage? Please, name an example. Just one. :sarcastic

It's as if you didn't understand a thing I wrote.

Sure I did. You don't want me to label my Anglo Saxon ethnicity "White". Because you want White to be the bad guy. White means racist to you so if I say I'm proud to be white then I'm a racist. So you want to force me to "explore" my Anglo ethnicity instead of being proud to be white. And you wonder why some might take offense at this.

 

[DallasApple]

Sure I did. You don't want me to label my Anglo Saxon ethnicity "White". Because you want White to be the bad guy. White means racist to you so if I say I'm proud to be white then I'm a racist. So you want to force me to "explore" my Anglo ethnicity instead of being proud to be white. And you wonder why some might take offense at this.

I dont know if we are "white" or tan or like me kind of pinkish in skin tone..

But I refuse to be ashamed or that "white" is some sort of thing you need to consider the "bad" guy..

My ancestors came on a boat from England MANY years ago and they were not black and they settled here.

And Im PROUD of that..Lets just put it tis way ..because they WERENT another ancestery doesnt bring me shame..

We have good and bad people in my line..(mostly good ) Just like everyone else.. Im not going to sit there and apologize for being white and not ASHAMED of it..

Love

Dallas

 

[Kathryn]

From what I understand..If you have ANY "black" in you then you are considered "black".

It doesnt matter what color your skin is..

Love

Dallas

Are you saying this as a fact or as an observation of other people's generalizations?

 

[Comicaze247]

Better question: why is ANY black person labeled "black" when in ANY profession?

Black doctor
Black pilot
Black bartender
Black janitor

It's the same thing with "woman"

I think it's just a social construction that's still in the stages of phasing out. Racism and sexism had been around for so long that doing such things was considered normal. Compared to the rest of our history, the Civil Rights Movement was VERY recent, so I think it will take a looooong time for those social constructions to come down. Yeah, it's about time that they've come down, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Kathryn]

I would ask "Why does it matter"?

I'm curious - because he's of mixed racial heritage, as are my children, and yet people insist on calling him BLACK.

I never said that this is OBAMA'S fault or that he intentionally perpetuates this. I think it's ironic that SOCIETY tends to label him as "black" when everyone knows he's only HALF "black."

Seems very backwards to me.

 

[lilithu]

Having watched people start acting and re-identifying to fit their skin color or ethnic background to fit stereotyped ideals when they moved from childhood to adolescence also informs that cultural identification in America is less to do with reality and more to do with idealizing stereotypes.

That may be your assessment. For me, it was helpful when I finally understood that my aversion to direct eye-contact, especially to "superiors," was something that I picked up from my Chinese parents, without even knowing it. It was especially helpful because in American culture, lack of eye-contact is considered to be a sign of untrustworthiness. I could give numerous other examples, but suffice it to say, it was very confusing to have certain traits and not understand why, to think that it was "just me", that I was "weird." And having spoken with a number of people of color on this, especially other Asians, I now know that it wasn't "just me." They all grew up with the same confusion. And the incidences of depression and suicidal ideation are astounding.

For your nephew, it may be different. His background is obviously different. I'm not claiming that he needs to explore his ancestral cultures. I'm just saying that yall shouldn't assume that he doesn't.

Pride and character are self-generated. Not inherited.

Culture is inherited.

I don't know why I'm this way. Most of my relatives are not. Most of my friends are not. Actually many of my relatives and former relations were outright bigots.

There's a difference between having pride in one's ethnicity and being a bigot.

Personally, I never desire to be identified with any ethnic group. It reveals absolutely nothing about me. But I cannot overlook the role manic-depression played in it. Something like that just kind of removes you from everything.

Gee.....that was depressing.

I hope you don't take this as belittling because I certainly don't mean it that way, but I your find your gentle rants, which almost always end with a statement like "that's depressing" to be extremely endearing.

 

[lilithu]

Sure I did. You don't want me to label my Anglo Saxon ethnicity "White". Because you want White to be the bad guy. White means racist to you so if I say I'm proud to be white then I'm a racist. So you want to force me to "explore" my Anglo ethnicity instead of being proud to be white. And you wonder why some might take offense at this.

I suggest that you do a little studying of what it means to be "white" in this country - who was considered "white" and when. And then, if you still want to discuss it, fine. Until then, we're not even speaking the same language. But I can't force you to do anything. :areyoucra

 

[lilithu]

I'm curious - because he's of mixed racial heritage, as are my children, and yet people insist on calling him BLACK.

I never said that this is OBAMA'S fault or that he intentionally perpetuates this. I think it's ironic that SOCIETY tends to label him as "black" when everyone knows he's only HALF "black."

Seems very backwards to me.

I find it curious that you find this curious, given that almost every African-American in this country is of mixed descent. Except for the people who have recently immigrated here from Africa (like Obama's dad), almost all African-Americans have some white ancestry in them. Yet you have no problem with calling them black. But think that it's "backwards" to call Obama black. Curious indeed.

 

[Kathryn]

I find it curious that you find this curious, given that almost every African-American in this country is of mixed descent. Except for the people who have recently immigrated here from Africa (like Obama's dad), almost all African-Americans have some white ancestry in them. Yet you have no problem with calling them black. But think that it's "backwards" to call Obama black. Curious indeed.

How do you know I have no problem calling them "black?" As a matter of fact, I DO have a problem with that - I do not like that term for precisely the reasons you stated - as well as other reasons.

I much prefer African American - or better yet, no differentiation at all.


Peeps is peeps.