Why is Revelation about "our" immediate future?

[kaoticprofit]

Jesus in Mathew 24, said that that generation that heard his discourse would not pass away until all these things came to pass. In 70 C.E. people witnessed a man in the clouds with an army of angels on horses. Also people with spiritual bodies were seen coming out of graveyards in fulfillment of the last verse of Daniel 12. The Christian Millennium lasted from 70 C.E. to 1071 C.E. when Muslims took Jerusalem in the Crusades and has gone down in history books as the Christian Millennium. Revelation is already fulfilled. This is called preterism. St. John was writing about a crisis that occurred at the time he wrote the book. That's apocalyptic literature for you. He even was told, write what you see for it is soon to take place. This interpretation is called preterism.

That's incorrect. Jesus said that the generation that sees all of the events mentioned in Mathew 24 OCCUR...THAT GENERATION, "would not pass," until all these things "came to pass."

"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

The word 'likewise' is the same as saying, "even so." The word 'likewise' is...

Even (Adverb, Etc.), Even As, Even So:

a conjunction, is usually a mere connective, meaning "and;" it frequently, however, has an ascensive or climactic use, signifying "even," the thing that is added being out of the ordinary, and producing a climax. The determination of this meaning depends on the context

The word 'likewise', as well as Jesus' words..."when ye shall see all these things," indicate that the fulfillment of Mathew 24 is the generation of people that SEE Mathew 24 pass.
You would be hard pressed to convince many that "this generation" implies the generation Jesus is talking to. I've never met a Preterist who can explain Mathew 24. You must also realize that the entire chapter is Jesus' response to the three part question the disciples asked in verse 3.

1. When will these things be. (not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.)

2. What will be the sign of thy coming.

3. What will be the sign of the end of the world. (consummation of the age)

Another thing people DON'T realize is that there are three different words for WORLD, and three different words for END in Mathew 24. Putting the correct definition of them in the context of 70 AD becomes very contradictory.

In Mathew 24, Jesus is talking about the time immediately before, during, and after tribulation. AND It really is a futile argument for one to claim the other things Jesus mentions already took place.

Verse 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mathew 24 is full of signs, events, and conditions, just prior to his return and is meant for the people and generation that sees and endures the tribulation.

Verse 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

An angel sounding the trumpet proves that this is about end-time events.

 

[kaoticprofit]

In assessing the modern relevance of the Book of Revelation, here are just 3 of the facts must be kept in mind:

(1) The symbolic number 666 in Rev. 13:18 is explicitly applied to "a man." But who? In the 1980s, the witty answer was "Ronald Wilson Reagan" (note the 6 letters in each name!) . But Revelation was written in 2 stages, the earlier of which coincided with the flight of Nero from Rome to Asia Minor. In Hebrew each letter stands for a number. If the Hebrew letters of "Emperor Nero" ("Caesar Neron" are totaled, the sum is 666. Modern scholars generally accept this as the original referent of the number.

(2) In support of this identification is the identity of "The Beast" of 13:1-3. The Beast is mortally wounded, but demonically restored to life to continue persecuting Christians. We learn from Roman historians of that era (e. g. Suetonius) that rumors circulated that Nero had not really committed suicide as some supposed, but was rather raised up to bring an army to restore his reign as emperor. Exploiting this terror, 3 Nero impersonators were reported. So "the Beast" of 13:18 seems to be based on these rumors.

(3) Revelation identifies the endtime empire as "Babylon (17:5, 17)," a symbol of Rome in contemporary literature, not the Roman Catholic Church! This identification is implicit in 1 Peter 5:13 and is used elsewhere in Jewish apocalyptic. It was too dangerous for early Jews and Christians to explicitly excoriate Rome in their written documents. They needed some circumlocution. Babylon is, like Rome, the city on 7 hills of Rev. 17:9. To ensure loyalty Rome instituted the emperor cult in which everyone was required on penalty of death to offer sacrifice to Caesar as god and lord. Christians refused to do this and paid the ultimate penalty for their refusal. The prophecy of future persecution from the Beast was repeatedly fulfilled until the time of the first Christian emperor, Constantine.


the early Christians hoped that Jesus would return "soon," a term that was never given more specificity. Does the prophecy also have an application to our time? That is uncertain, but if it does, it does so by treating these symbols of Rome as types of future empires.

Nero was was a Roman Emperor and NOT so much of a religious figure. The mark of the beast, 666, is attributed to a religious figure. Nero doesn't fit the criteria for 666. Rome is NOT mentioned in ONE verse of Bible prophecy especially in any end-time context. People often tell me that Rome is mentioned all over prophecy. My question to you is WHERE!

Babylon IS NOT like Rome at all. Babylon is Babylon and if anything, Babylon is associated with false religion and the Arabic region of the Middle-East today.

Rome is NOT a city of seven hills. It's a city of 8 hills. Besides that....

The word 'hills' is an incorrect translation. The word is 'oros' which is better translated 'mountains' anyway! Rome does not sit on seven mountains! Jerusalem does!

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

There are seven hills on the East side of the Tiber. 'Vatican Hill' sits on the west side of the Tiber. THAT MAKES 8 HILLS TOTAL! AND!... They are too small to be designated as 'mountains'. They are only 200 -400 feet high and that doesn't constitute a mountain. When the 'seven hills' on the east side of the Tiber are viewed from a distance they appear as 'little nubs.'

 

[metis]

Your comment makes no sense to me for a few reasons. The Preterist movement CHANGED the dating of Revelation from 90-95 AD to 69-70 AD. It also makes no sense to me that John would write a prophetic book (in 69-70 AD) that we've broken down into 22 chapters, that had no time to be distributed, read, or even remotely understood, before its fulfillment. NOTHING was understood in the book of Revelation in 70 AD because it wasn't even written at that time. I have a problem with Preterism as it denies entire books, chapters, and hundreds of prophetic verses.

In Mathew 24:34 Jesus debunks the idea that Mathew 24 or Revelation was fulfilled in 70 AD...

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

In this verse 34 Jesus said that the generation that sees the conditions and events mentioned in the entire chapter would NOT PASS until ALL the things mentioned in it are fulfilled. You would be hard pressed convincing me and many others that those events HAVE PASSED!

We know how the early church took Revelation, and they clearly though it pertained to their times. Even Paul believed as such since he told "the Way" that it was best not to marry, which would make no sense if the belief that Jesus would return in some distant-future.

Second, it appears the the apostle John likely did not write the book even though he's mentioned in the beginning.

Thirdly, the importance of Revelation is not what would take place much later in time but what the basic message was about, and it was quite comforting, and it can be said this way: "You've already won even if you're killed, so keep the faith".

Finally, it's essentially a later book that uses flashback to the Nero period but which message resonated much passed that.

 

[metis]

Nero was was a Roman Emperor and NOT so much of a religious figure. The mark of the beast, 666, is attributed to a religious figure. Nero doesn't fit the criteria for 666. Rome is NOT mentioned in ONE verse of Bible prophecy especially in any end-time context. ...

Nero's name is not only covered by 666 but also its variation.

Secondly, the wording is that those will know who is being referenced, which obviously means it had to be someone already around. I think one would be hard-pressed today to find any serious theologian that thinks it's anyone but Nero.

 

[kaoticprofit]

Thank you. That makes more sense to me than trying to match Revelation to current events.

It's a difficult thing to do since the scroll IS NOT yet opened. I could show you a few things that I believe are in the process of fulfillment.
The seals...

There are a host of interpretations about them. The first seal is "HOLY WAR!" So yes, I believe we are approaching major fulfillment of prophecy that will change the world we live in forever as we know it.

People (actually Muslims) will eventually realize we are the process of fulfillment in Revelation 15...

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

The empire of the man of sin, and the mark of the beast, isn't global but limited to the region of the Middle-East. A sea of glass could represent a few things. It's seen around the Throne of God. And I suppose a nuke could turn a desert into "a sea of glass." But in Revelation 15, a sea of glass...

____________________________________________________________________________

John described those who gain the victory over the beast, standing upon the sea of glass, that is before the throne of God, where they no longer have to view things “through a glass.” Their perspective is like that of Moses; they are “face to face” with Christ, and the throne. But the sea of glass on which they stand still functions as a mirror.

In prophecy, the word of God is couched in symbol and metaphor. From the viewpoint of the earth, man’s perceptions must be as one peering through the “glass mixed with fire” of the sea of glass, but those who obtain victory over the beast stand upon the sea of glass, so they see what before was only imperfectly understood. Unless properly interpreted, prophecy gives only a murky view of things. The saints who gained victory over the beast and his image, standing above the sea of glass represents their possessing a clear, and un-obscured understanding, that comes from a right interpretation.

https://creationconcept.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/some-thoughts-on-the-sea-of-glass/
____________________________________________________________________________

Suicide bombers...

Revelation 9:16-17 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

Revelation 6:7-8 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

To kill with "the beast of the earth" means throwing people to the lions and dogs are coming back to an amphitheater near you! Actually the region of the Middle-East!

 

[kaoticprofit]

e.r.m.,
Notice that Matthew 24;14 says that the Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in all the earth, for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
As far as men are concerned this preaching has been accomplished, but it is to God's satisfaction that we continue to preach. All indications are that we are living in the very last of the last days!!! If we want to have much more of a future, we must get to know God well and obey the Lord Jesus Christ, 2Thessalonians 1:6-9, Luke 21:34,35.

Nearly every verse of Mathew 24 debunks the idea of a first century fulfillment. Most of the books in today's bible were JUST WRITTEN by 70 AD, and about 6 of them written between 70-95 AD. So the verse you quoted, Mathew 24:14 debunks the idea that Mathew 24 was fulfilled in the first century since those NT books really had no time to be circulated, read, or understood, AND...the gospel is STILL being preached today!

People need to look at the grammar and text a bit closer because like I said earlier, there are THREE DIFFERENT WORDS for END and WORLD in Mathew 24! Getting the interpretation and TIMING of the chapter RIGHT requires looking at them.

I'd give you my study on this but already have complaints that my post are too long.

 

[kaoticprofit]

Nero's name is not only covered by 666 but also its variation.

Secondly, the wording is that those will know who is being referenced, which obviously means it had to be someone already around. I think one would be hard-pressed today to find any serious theologian that thinks it's anyone but Nero.

First of all just because somebody is a THEOLOGIAN doesn't mean they have everything RIGHT. I've found dozens of mistakes in many of them, including the "theologians" that have translated the KJV. My cousin is ONE. Theologians know and believe ONLY what they've accepted.as truth. I don't trust any of them because they come from the angle of the doctrines they've accepted. So I obviously disagree. Nero was done by 68 AD, and no Roman, whether Nero or anyone that followed ever authenticated themselves as "the abomination" and placed a statue in the temple, or imposed any kind of "mark of the beast." But many "theologians" have tried to say such a thing.

 

[kaoticprofit]

We know how the early church took Revelation, and they clearly though it pertained to their times. Even Paul believed as such since he told "the Way" that it was best not to marry, which would make no sense if the belief that Jesus would return in some distant-future.

What do you mean we know how the early church took Revelation? They had no clue about it! Read the Didache!

Second, it appears the the apostle John likely did not write the book even though he's mentioned in the beginning.

Doesn't matter WHO wrote the BOOK!

Thirdly, the importance of Revelation is not what would take place much later in time but what the basic message was about, and it was quite comforting, and it can be said this way: "You've already won even if you're killed, so keep the faith".

So that's what you walk away with by reading a 22 chapter book about prophecy that was written in 90-95 AD huh? I don't agree with one liners that people believe explain a 22 chapter book.

Finally, it's essentially a later book that uses flashback to the Nero period but which message resonated much passed that.

There's hardly no 'flashback' to the book. You may want to do more than post a few sentences to support what you're saying. Besides that. Revelation was written during the time of Domitian's reign.

 

[metis]

First of all just because somebody is a THEOLOGIAN doesn't mean they have everything RIGHT. I've found dozens of mistakes in many of them, including the "theologians" that have translated the KJV. My cousin is ONE. Theologians know and believe ONLY what they've accepted.as truth. I don't trust any of them because they come from the angle of the doctrines they've accepted. So I obviously disagree. Nero was done by 68 AD, and no Roman, whether Nero or anyone that followed ever authenticated themselves as "the abomination" and placed a statue in the temple, or imposed any kind of "mark of the beast." But many "theologians" have tried to say such a thing.

There was a coin used with Nero's picture on it, and such coins have been found in eretz Israel. Just prior to 70 c.e., two stone lion statues were placed by the Romans at the Temple, which started a riot that some historians believe ultimately led to the destruction of the Temple as the Romans cracked-down. Also, Nero claimed he would return after death.

 

[metis]

What do you mean we know how the early church took Revelation? They had no clue about it! Read the Didache!

Doesn't matter WHO wrote the BOOK!

So that's what you walk away with by reading a 22 chapter book about prophecy that was written in 90-95 AD huh? I don't agree with one liners that people believe explain a 22 chapter book.

There's hardly no 'flashback' to the book. You may want to do more than post a few sentences to support what you're saying. Besides that. Revelation was written during the time of Domitian's reign.

First of all, I read the Didache many years ago but I don't recall anything being said in it about the book of Revelation.

Yes, Revelation was written late, so how does that in any way negate that Nero was being referred to, especially in light of how traditional Jewish literature was constructed? Also, when I said "early church", I'm talking in this case about the 2nd century church whereas there's more documentation on what eventually would become the canon.

Finally, I can't figure out why the temper, so if this is all bothering you for some reason, then I'll just beg off having any more discussion. I have no irons in this fire as none of this really pertains to me or where I'm coming from.

 

[kaoticprofit]

There was a coin used with Nero's picture on it, and such coins have been found in eretz Israel. Just prior to 70 c.e., two stone lion statues were placed by the Romans at the Temple, which started a riot that some historians believe ultimately led to the destruction of the Temple as the Romans cracked-down.

Lion statues mean nothing. The man of sin and his sidekick false prophet will fulfill dozens of prophecies that no man, let alone a Roman, has ever done. Nero didn't die of or by a fatal head wound. He died by assisted suicide. Some people still believe JFK is the anti-Christ just because he was shot in the head. Besides that the man of sin is an Assyrian who is likened to Lucifer in Isaiah 14.

Also, Nero claimed he would return after death

Nero didn't return then, and he won't return in the future. He's a Roman, and a Roman IS NOT who is prophesied to return as any kind of beast. That's why I always ask people to show me where an Italian, Roman, or European is prophesied in scripture. I've never seen ONE VERSE OF PROPHECY implicate Rome in any way in the end. Yet people continue to believe in some sort of Revived or Revised Roman Empire anyway.

 

[kaoticprofit]

First of all, I read the Didache many years ago but I don't recall anything being said in it about the book of Revelation.

That's my point. People try to tell me that the early church understood the book of Revelation, which means the book was being fulfilled before, during, or just after it was written. That makes the prophecy about the end of the world in Mathew 24 meaningless. If Revelation or Mathew 24 were understood as "passing" in 'that generation', then I would think there would be some mention of these fulfilled prophecies SOMEWHERE since there are dozens of them. The Didache is the teachings of the first century apostles, if Revelation were understood by 'that generation' as a first century fulfillment, then we would have some really good documentation of it somewhere, and the Didache would probably be the place to have some mention of these fulfilled prophecies.

Yes, Revelation was written late, so how does that in any way negate that Nero was being referred to, especially in light of how traditional Jewish literature was constructed? Also, when I said "early church", I'm talking in this case about the 2nd century church whereas there's more documentation on what eventually would become the canon.

Because a true prophet CANNOT prophesy about a beast rising who has risen decades before!

Finally, I can't figure out why the temper, so if this is all bothering you for some reason, then I'll just beg off having any more discussion. I have no irons in this fire as none of this really pertains to me or where I'm coming from

Why the temper? I'm not happy with Christianity. It's losing ground in the US and EU and has become a self-destructive religion. Islam is doing much better than Christianity today. Christianity is now perceived by many as, "just another religion." Why would anybody want to convert to Christ when all they see is a self-righteous people and divided church that can't agree on anything who often condemns those who disagree with them. The kicker is that most prophecy experts tell us that Christians are involved in the apostasy of 2 Thes. 2, and that the man of sin will come from within the church! We are a self-destructive, self-demonizing people! SEE MY POINT!

 

[metis]

Lion statues mean nothing...

By writing that, it clearly indicates that you have little to know knowledge of traditional Judaism or Roman history because these statues would be considered graven images under halacha (Jewish Law), plus Jerusalem was and is the most sacred place, which would make these statues doubly insulting.

Also, let me recommend you look up what "Babylon the Great" actually stood for back 2000 years ago, and also why Paul talks about being released from "the lion's mouth".

And you totally miss the point about Nero, so maybe do more studying and far less ranting.

 

[metis]

The Didache is the teachings of the first century apostles, if Revelation were understood by 'that generation' as a first century fulfillment, then we would have some really good documentation of it somewhere, and the Didache would probably be the place to have some mention of these fulfilled prophecies.

First of ll, it is not at all clear who wrote the Didache, and secondly it is not a theological treatise on scripture but is a guide as to how one is to conduct themselves in the diasporah.

 

[kaoticprofit]

By writing that, it clearly indicates that you have little to know knowledge of traditional Judaism or Roman history because these statues would be considered graven images under halacha (Jewish Law), plus Jerusalem was and is the most sacred place, which would make these statues doubly insulting.

Also, let me recommend you look up what "Babylon the Great" actually stood for back 2000 years ago, and also why Paul talks about being released from "the lion's mouth".

I don't question the graven image thing or the lion statues. I want to know where that's found in any end-time prophecy. There are certain events and conditions that the beholder of 666 must fulfill and Nero just doesn't fit the bill. And just so you know, this "sacred place" you're talking about is now occupied by a mosque.

I know what Babylon the Great was perceived like 2,000 years ago, and most of those perceptions were wrong. Babylon is not Rome, the EU, or the US. Babylon is Babylon and that geographical area and that's it. Prophecy was meant to fool us, but it didn't fool everybody back then. People for a very long time believed that the anti-Christ would come from the geographical area of Assyria. That area today is a mess,....and that's BABYLON!

And you totally miss the point about Nero, so maybe do more studying and far less ranting

I didn't miss anything about Nero. He has nothing to do with end-time prophecy, 666, or the man of sin, or the abomination.of desolation.

 

[kaoticprofit]

First of ll, it is not at all clear who wrote the Didache, and secondly it is not a theological treatise on scripture but is a guide as to how one is to conduct themselves in the diasporah.

The Didache was written in the first century by the last remaining prophets and apostles who outlined the direction the early church should go. It covers both doctrine, rituals, and office holders. One thing for sure is that it was written early and hardly matters who wrote it for we know it was the leaders of the early church who were still called prophets and apostles.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

It's a difficult thing to do since the scroll IS NOT yet opened.

How would you know? Does God give you a checklist of everything He's done so far since before you were born?

The first seal is "HOLY WAR!"

And none of those have ever happened prior to your birth?

and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions

So we're waiting for Muslim (I guess no other religion uses bombs) suicide bombers to get lion-headed horses?

So the verse you quoted, Mathew 24:14 debunks the idea that Mathew 24 was fulfilled in the first century since those NT books really had no time to be circulated, read, or understood, AND...the gospel is STILL being preached today!

But if they started out orally, that gives lots more time to spread the news ...

AND...the gospel is STILL being preached today!

Mostly by people who only quote mine and don't have a strong handle on the depths and subtleties contained therein.

Theologians know and believe ONLY what they've accepted.as truth. I don't trust any of them because they come from the angle of the doctrines they've accepted.

And that's different from what you're doing ... how?

So that's what you walk away with by reading a 22 chapter book about prophecy that was written in 90-95 AD huh? I don't agree with one liners that people believe explain a 22 chapter book.

I take it as revenge porn by a high-as-a-kite individual who is bitter he landed in prison (Jesus was the Great Role Model: if you are about to be killed ... run until you can't run anymore. Peter and Paul were also big fans of avoiding or escaping jail. So much for dying for your beliefs, huh?) and wants to write a long story about how all the people who ticked him off are going to burn in hell for all eternity.

I think that took more than one line ...

There's hardly no 'flashback' to the book. You may want to do more than post a few sentences to support what you're saying. Besides that. Revelation was written during the time of Domitian's reign.

Yes, and even pagan Romans feared a rumor that Nero was going to return because they believed the fat little drama queen may have faked the suicide story.

Nero didn't return then, and he won't return in the future.

Like Jesus

Why the temper? I'm not happy with Christianity. It's losing ground in the US and EU and has become a self-destructive religion. Islam is doing much better than Christianity today. Christianity is now perceived by many as, "just another religion." Why would anybody want to convert to Christ when all they see is a self-righteous people and divided church that can't agree on anything who often condemns those who disagree with them. The kicker is that most prophecy experts tell us that Christians are involved in the apostasy of 2 Thes. 2, and that the man of sin will come from within the church! We are a self-destructive, self-demonizing people! SEE MY POINT!

I agree, though focusing on some dude's ancient revenge porn makes Christianity look just as bad.

Babylon is Babylon and that geographical area and that's it.

The NT (as the OT before it was) is filled with code words and images. If your religion is on the DL, you have to be able to talk without being comprehensible to outsiders who are out to kill you.

 

[metis]

Here's for those who are more interested in some serious biblical analysis:

Finally, while “Nero” in Greek totaled 1,005, the reader of John’s letter familiar with the Hebrew language could recognize that the Greek spelling of “Nero Caesar” transliterated into Hebrew equals 666. Moreover, the presence in some ancient manuscripts of a variation in which 666 is rendered 616 lends further credence to Nero as the intended referent. The Hebrew transliteration of the Latin spelling of “Nero Caesar” totals 616, just as the Hebrew transliteration of the Greek, which includes an additional letter (Greek: “n”=50, English transliteration: “n”=50), renders 666. Thus, two seemingly unrelated numbers lead you to the same doorstep—that of a beast named Nero Caesar. Twenty-first-century believers, like their first-century counterparts, can be absolutely certain that 666 is the number of Nero’s name and that Nero is the beast who ravaged the bride of Christ in a historical milieu that included three and a half years of persecution. In the end, Peter and Paul themselves were persecuted and put to death at the hands of this Beast. Indeed this was the only epoch in human history in which the Beast could directly assail the foundation of the Christian Church of which Christ himself was the cornerstone. -- http://www.equip.org/bible_answers/what-is-the-meaning-of-666/

 

[kaoticprofit]

kaoticprofit said:

"It's a difficult thing to do since the scroll IS NOT yet opened."

How would you know? Does God give you a checklist of everything He's done so far since before you were born?

I don't know what you're getting at. The comment was made that something made more sense understanding Revelation in a historical context than "trying to match Revelation to current events."
It is a difficult thing to match current events to end-time prophecy. But since I believe the book is a chronological sequence of events, I believe it will be easier to follow the events as they pass after the seals have passed and the scroll is opened.

kaoticprofit said: ↑
The first seal is "HOLY WAR!"

And none of those have ever happened prior to your birth?

I have no idea what you're getting at. Explain yourself a bit more would you instead of a constant stream of ambiguous one liners.

kaoticprofit said:
and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions

So we're waiting for Muslim (I guess no other religion uses bombs) suicide bombers to get lion-headed horses?

I didn't say that. Revelation 9 does. We aren't waiting for Islamic suicide bombers. They're already here.

Lion headed horses, and the locust prove Revelation 9 is all about Babylon, suicide bombers, the Arabs and that region, Islam, and the demons who torment its followers. Maybe you can give me your list of NON ISLAMIC suicide bombers lately. Revelation 9 is one of the most extensive and difficult chapters in Revelation to understand and correctly interpret. Lions represent Babylon, locust represent the Arabs. Babylon the Great is Islam. Nero and Rome are NON EXISTENT in bible prophecy.

kaoticprofit said: ↑
So the verse you quoted, Mathew 24:14 debunks the idea that Mathew 24 was fulfilled in the first century since those NT books really had no time to be circulated, read, or understood, AND...the gospel is STILL being preached today!

But if they started out orally, that gives lots more time to spread the news ...

Oral tradition is how things get corrupted most. I still can't figure out where your coming from on this issue.

kaoticprofit said: ↑
Theologians know and believe ONLY what they've accepted.as truth. I don't trust any of them because they come from the angle of the doctrines they've accepted.

And that's different from what you're doing ... how?

I don't have any reason to be biased in any way. I wasn't corrupted by any university or seminary. I don't have any church doctrine to adhere to. I research and discover things on my own and I decide WHAT to believe in. I show people HOW I arrive at my conclusions, and I also have a hermeneutic that I stick to.

kaoticprofit said: ↑
So that's what you walk away with by reading a 22 chapter book about prophecy that was written in 90-95 AD huh? I don't agree with one liners that people believe explain a 22 chapter book.

I take it as revenge porn by a high-as-a-kite individual who is bitter he landed in prison (Jesus was the Great Role Model: if you are about to be killed ... run until you can't run anymore. Peter and Paul were also big fans of avoiding or escaping jail. So much for dying for your beliefs, huh?) and wants to write a long story about how all the people who ticked him off are going to burn in hell for all eternity.

Where in the world are you coming from???

I think that took more than one line ...

Thank God for that.
kaoticprofit said: ↑
There's hardly no 'flashback' to the book. You may want to do more than post a few sentences to support what you're saying. Besides that. Revelation was written during the time of Domitian's reign.

Yes, and even pagan Romans feared a rumor that Nero was going to return because they believed the fat little drama queen may have faked the suicide story.

What does that prove? Absolutely nothing. He didn't suffer from a fatal head wound...which is associated with the 7 headed 10 horned beast anyway! NOT the 666 beast. You're confusing the two.

 

[kaoticprofit]

Here's for those who are more interested in some serious biblical analysis:

Finally, while “Nero” in Greek totaled 1,005, the reader of John’s letter familiar with the Hebrew language could recognize that the Greek spelling of “Nero Caesar” transliterated into Hebrew equals 666. Moreover, the presence in some ancient manuscripts of a variation in which 666 is rendered 616 lends further credence to Nero as the intended referent. The Hebrew transliteration of the Latin spelling of “Nero Caesar” totals 616, just as the Hebrew transliteration of the Greek, which includes an additional letter (Greek: “n”=50, English transliteration: “n”=50), renders 666. Thus, two seemingly unrelated numbers lead you to the same doorstep—that of a beast named Nero Caesar. Twenty-first-century believers, like their first-century counterparts, can be absolutely certain that 666 is the number of Nero’s name and that Nero is the beast who ravaged the bride of Christ in a historical milieu that included three and a half years of persecution. In the end, Peter and Paul themselves were persecuted and put to death at the hands of this Beast. Indeed this was the only epoch in human history in which the Beast could directly assail the foundation of the Christian Church of which Christ himself was the cornerstone. -- http://www.equip.org/bible_answers/what-is-the-meaning-of-666/

You might just as well post Hank Hanegraaff's page on the subject.

This is my response...

It's a given that Hank would call Nero the biblical anti-Christ because he's a Preterist. Hanks only plausible argument calling Nero the man of sin is through the mark 666. There are a few problems with that. 1. Nero wasn't a religious figure, he was a Roman emperor. 2. 666 is attributed to this religious figure described as having 'two horns' "LIKE A LAMB." Like a lamb implies "similar to Christianity." At that time, Rome didn't have a religion 'similar to' Christianity. Islam is implied here as it has two sects with a false book, a false prophet, a false god,...bent on dominating the planet through demographics and terrorism.

The MAJOR problem associating Nero with these prophecies is that John, Jesus, Paul, and the others, would be prophesying about a man already in existence which constitutes them as false prophets. That alone debunks Nero as the bearrer of the man associated with 666. You need more than just a 666 connection to identify this man, and he's not a first century character.
This is all the stuff you say is attributed to Nero...

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
How do two horns represent Nero? I say the two horns represent the Sunni and Shia sects of Islam.

And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Who is the 7 headed 10 horned beast that Nero also has the same demonic power.

And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

When did Nero do that? This is a literal event and NOT figurative of anything else.

And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

I have never seen anyone explain that in a first century context that makes any sense.

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Explain to me the mark Nero imposed on that scale that was in their right hand or forehead!

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Explain what this 666 mark is, and how Nero imposed it.

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Did you know....

The right hand and forehead has religious significance in Islam. The right hand is your 'clean hand.'
Their method of worship and goal of world domination through jihad and demographics is also perfectly describe in Habakkuk and Revelation. Habakkuk says God would raise up the Babylonians in the last days. Not the Romans. That would be Islam today. Habakkuk said....

They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, and they shall gather the captivity as the sand.

Terrorism, their method of worship. and goal of world domination all in one verse.
What is anti-Christ??? I'm sure you know...

Around the octagonal structure of the Dome of the Rock is a long classical Arabic inscription that says that God has no begotten son, thus denying that Jesus is the Son of God.

Coincidentally...

The number of the verses in the Koran according to the scholars:
Ibn-i Abbas (ra): 6616,
Nafi (ra): 6217,

Shayba (ra): 6214,
Scholars of Egypt (ra): 6226,
Zamahshari (ra)
(the genius Eloquence Scholar of the Arabic language and literature);
6666.
Bediuzzaman, mujaddid (the reformer) of the13.century, also has the opinion of
6666 verses.