Why is someone praying for someone else offensive

[Sgt. Pepper]

I think though, with respect, you need to put those behind you and understand that most modern Christians are not like that. I go to both Catholic and Anglican churches and have not come across this attitude. I don't know what kind of Christians you were with but they are not representative.

With all due respect and no offense intended, you don't know the depth of what someone has been through unless you walk a mile in their shoes. I think this is true even if this person shares a few stories of what they experienced. In my case, for example, I've barely scratched the surface of what I suffered and the personal hardships I've had because of the childhood abuse I endured. It isn't a matter of simply putting it behind you or understanding that not all Christians are the same. I'm well aware of this because my husband is a Christian who has spent the last 31 years of his life caring for me. His love and care for me, however, doesn't change the fact that I don't trust other Christians. I have a long lifetime (40+ years) of experience that undeniably proves to me that I need to be on my guard around them and not naively trust them because they're Christians. I grew up around Christians and spent the majority of my life surrounded by them as well. The truth is that I know very few of them who genuinely live up to what they profess as Christians. In fact, I consider them and my husband to be the exception rather than the rule. To be honest, if it weren't for them, I believe I'd be within my right to loathe all Christians.

 

[Rival]

With all due respect and no offense intended, you don't know the depth of what someone has been through unless you walk a mile in their shoes. I think this is true even if this person shares a few stories of what they experienced. In my case, for example, I've barely scratched the surface of what I suffered and the personal hardships I've had because of the childhood abuse I endured. It isn't a matter of simply putting it behind you or understanding that not all Christians are the same. I'm well aware of this because my husband is a Christian who has spent the last 31 years of his life caring for me. His love and care for me, however, doesn't change the fact that I don't trust other Christians. I have a long lifetime (40+ years) of experience that undeniably proves to me that I need to be on my guard around them and not naively trust them because they're Christians. I grew up around Christians and spent the majority of my life surrounded by them as well. The truth is that I know very few of them who genuinely live up to what they profess as Christians. In fact, I consider them and my husband to be the exception rather than the rule. To be honest, if it weren't for them, I believe I'd be within my right to loathe all Christians.

I would question your participation on a forum full of Christians if your trauma is deep. It doesn't seem helpful for one's mental state. I understand that some horrible things have happened to you and I hope you can recover from those things. To put that on others is unfair though, to say others can't have a prayer emoji or prayer in other ways because of your personal circumstances is overreaching. If your fears are guiding you here, I hope you can deal with those. I just don't understand why your personal issues should be everyone's issues.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I would question your participation on a forum full of Christians if your trauma is deep. It doesn't seem helpful for one's mental state. I understand that some horrible things have happened to you and I hope you can recover from those things. To put that on others is unfair though, to say others can't have a prayer emoji or prayer in other ways because of your personal circumstances is overreaching. If your fears are guiding you here, I hope you can deal with those. I just don't understand why your personal issues should be everyone's issues.

There's no need to question my participation in a forum with Christians because I've already explained why I'm on this forum and it has nothing to do with them. Yes, it has caused me some emotional strain, but I can deal with it. I deal with the conflict either by ignoring it or by leaving for a while, which I did a few weeks ago. My objection to the prayer frubal, as I've already explained in the other thread, was because of my concern that the Abrahamic theists that I mentioned would use it as a means to antagonize the nonbelievers who push back against the repeated efforts to preach and proselytize. It is a problem.

For example:

New Frubal?

I vote than we ban all frubals.

www.religiousforums.com

New Frubal?

I vote than we ban all frubals.

www.religiousforums.com

New Frubal?

I vote than we ban all frubals.

www.religiousforums.com

New Frubal?

This has never been my position here. I never said I was opposed to a secular one, though I can understand how this could be inferred given my challenges to those that want a secular one and oppose a religious one. My position based on the feedback in this thread is to have both a prayer...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Heyo]

Here's a controversy that I remember.
It functions much like prayer for non-believers.
Mormons baptizing dead Jews.
It has no effect. What's the harm, eh.
But oh, can people take offense at mere rituals.

Can I Get on the Mormon “Do Not Baptize” List?

Mormon Church leaders apologized Tuesday after the parents of the late Jewish rights advocate and Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal were baptized by proxy...

slate.com

You know they can perform an unbaptism ritual to counter that?

 

[idea]

I'd probably prefer they did something concrete to affect things rather than relying on some imaginary entity to do anything, even if praying didn't do any harm. But what is it doing for those who pray?

It seems like those who pray can pretend like they are doing something helpful, when they're not.

Prayers can be a form of unwanted or wrong advice, preaching rarely helps, prayers do not help, but those saying prayers can pretend that they are caring and selfless when they are not giving anything at all.

 

[SalixIncendium]

My objection to the prayer frubal, as I've already explained in the other thread, was because of my concern that the Abrahamic theists that I mentioned would use it as a means to antagonize the nonbelievers who push back against the repeated efforts to preach and proselytize. It is a problem.

It is what is expected of them through their scripture and through the teachings of their church.

While preaching and proselytizing is against the rules here, you should also understand that it is a part of their religion.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

It is what is expected of them through their scripture and through the teachings of their church.

While preaching and proselytizing is against the rules here, you should also understand that it is a part of their religion.

Yes, I understand that as a former evangelical Christian, former street preacher, and former leader of a highly active evangelism team.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

It seems like those who pray can pretend like they are doing something helpful, when they're not.

Prayers can be a form of unwanted or wrong advice, preaching rarely helps, prayers do not help, but those saying prayers can pretend that they are caring and selfless when they are not giving anything at all.

That has been my overall experience with prayer and others claiming to pray for me. It was like that when I was a Christian and after I left Christianity.

 

[danieldemol]

It is what is expected of them through their scripture and through the teachings of their church.

While preaching and proselytizing is against the rules here, you should also understand that it is a part of their religion.

Isn't saying a prayer for someone against their wishes a form of preaching?

Personally I'm shocked that the members of a religious forum have never heard a malicious prayer.

I have heard prayer used for;
Cursing,
Being condescending,
Preaching hate speech and/or adhominem.

To say that prayer is nothing more than the religious equivalent of well-wishes quite frankly strikes me as whitewashing prayer.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Personally I'm shocked that the members of a religious forum have never heard a malicious prayer.

Where was this stated or even implied?

I have heard prayer used for;
Cursing,
Being condescending,
Preaching hate speech and/or adhominem.

As have I. And I'm confident that those who would use it for such purposes would answer for it.

To say that prayer is nothing more than the religious equivalent of well-wishes quite frankly strikes me as whitewashing prayer.

Again, where was this stated or implied?

 

[Jainarayan]

I only have a problem if someone wants to pray for me because they disapprove of something about me and want me to turn to their God or beliefs. Too many times I've heard "Turn to Jesus" or "Give yourself to Jesus" when I've mentioned some trouble I experienced. Or worse, "I'll pray for you in Jesus's name". No, please don't. Unless of course I can do an archana to Krishna for you. So by and large I avoid offering prayers for others and prefer not to be prayed for. God knows what I need. Which brings me to the question "Why do I pray?" when God knows what I need? Oh, because the act of prayer is for me to work out what I'm going through. God is a sounding board, a patient shoulder to cry on.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Isn't saying a prayer for someone against their wishes a form of preaching?

In my opinion, it is a far greater testament to a person's devotion to their religious beliefs to respect and follow the rules of this forum rather than willfully disregard them in order to unsolicitedly preach and proselytize their beliefs while knowing it violates the rules. They know it violates the rules to preach, proselytize, and state their beliefs as if they were definitive facts. They also know it violates the rules to viciously belittle and bully other members who don't share their beliefs. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't believe it's an effective witness to their religious beliefs when they accuse nonbelievers of being sinners, of rebelling against the biblical God, or threaten nonbelievers with hellfire. Of course, this is just my opinion and others are free to disagree.

 

[danieldemol]

Where was this stated or even implied?


As have I. And I'm confident that those who would use it for such purposes would answer for it.


Again, where was this stated or implied?

Sorry, looks like I had the OP in mind who said, "Aren't they all just hoping the best for you?" I guess I was mis-responding to tell you that they are not all just hoping the best for you.

 

[The Hammer]

If someone prays for you and if it offends you, Why?
It doesn't cost you anything
It doesn't take away your time
It doesn't require your effort
It doesn't take away your birthday

So....
Bob says I will pray for you
Bill says good luck
Sally says I wish you the best
Betty says may fate be on your side
Steve says hope everything works out

Aren't they all just hoping the best for you?

It depends on the implications behind the "prayer".

If I tell someone I'm having a rough go of things, and ife has been handing me ****ty cards: and someone says I'll pray for you. Thanks, I appreciate it.

But if I'm having a conversation, and I mention something like "I'm Pagan", or anything else that goes against the perceived Abrahamic norm, and someone says: "I'll praye for you". I'm gonna be annoyed, because they meant it pedantically.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If someone prays for you and if it offends you, Why?
It doesn't cost you anything
It doesn't take away your time
It doesn't require your effort
It doesn't take away your birthday

So....
Bob says I will pray for you
Bill says good luck
Sally says I wish you the best
Betty says may fate be on your side
Steve says hope everything works out

Aren't they all just hoping the best for you?

It doesn't necessarily offend me, although it might depend on the actual context.
For example if I find myself in a dire situation and am desperate for outside help and the outside just says "I'll pray for you", as if that's praise worthy, instead of actually helping then I wouldn't welcome such an empty comment at all.

 

[☆Dreamwind☆]

If it is done in the spirit of contempt, arrogance or belligerence then yes it is very rude.

E.G I'll pray that you abandon your evil thoughts and find your way to (insert deity here)

If done in genuine kindness and compassion, it's as harmless a gesture as well wishing or good luck.

E.G. I heard that you're not feeling good. I'll pray that you get well soon.

 

[JIMMY12345]

If someone prays for you and if it offends you, Why?
It doesn't cost you anything
It doesn't take away your time
It doesn't require your effort
It doesn't take away your birthday

So....
Bob says I will pray for you
Bill says good luck
Sally says I wish you the best
Betty says may fate be on your side
Steve says hope everything works out

Aren't they all just hoping the best for you?

its not.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If it is done in the spirit of contempt, arrogance or belligerence then yes it is very rude.

E.G I'll pray that you abandon your evil thoughts and find your way to (insert deity here)

If done in genuine kindness and compassion, it's as harmless a gesture as well wishing or good luck.

E.G. I heard that you're not feeling good. I'll pray that you get well soon.

I think a lot of people get taught this idea that there's a social expectation to offer prayers when someone is going through hard times, so I'll usually chalk up "I'll pray for you" to be a shorthand response by someone with a limited ability to say something that would actually help or be thoughtful.

If it's done by someone who seems to have put some thought into it, "I'll pray for you" can have some pretty weird implications. Depending on the specifics, it could be:

"I recognize you're in need right now, but rather than do anything to actually help, I'll perform a little ritual that will make me feel better."

"I want to shift the focus of this moment from you and your suffering to me and my religion."

"I think I can command - or at least influence - God. I'll use this power to help you out." (... which raises all sorts of questions about all the situations where the prayer doesn't use this influence they think they have)

 

[☆Dreamwind☆]

I think a lot of people get taught this idea that there's a social expectation to offer prayers when someone is going through hard times, so I'll usually chalk up "I'll pray for you" to be a shorthand response by someone with a limited ability to say something that would actually help or be thoughtful.

If it's done by someone who seems to have put some thought into it, "I'll pray for you" can have some pretty weird implications. Depending on the specifics, it could be:

"I recognize you're in need right now, but rather than do anything to actually help, I'll perform a little ritual that will make me feel better."

"I want to shift the focus of this moment from you and your suffering to me and my religion."

"I think I can command - or at least influence - God. I'll use this power to help you out." (... which raises all sorts of questions about all the situations where the prayer doesn't use this influence they think they have)

Exactly! Although you hafta remember, sometimes well wishing is all you can do. You may not have money to help a family member out at that moment in time. Or you may live very far away from a friend when something bad happens. Just examples.

 

[Soandso]

I think some people are misunderstanding people saying they'll pray for them as some kind of backhanded offence. It is really not meant that way. One wonders if the recipient's ideology is projecting onto the person offering the prayer.

Eh... Depends on the situation. "Bless your heart" can be endearing or a backhanded insult as well. I've definitely seen "I'll pray for you" used in a condescending way

That said, I personally don't take offense to people praying for me as I know their heart is in the right place. Sentiments are what's important to me