Why ISIS are wrong.

[icehorse]

Icehorse, I cannot help but have mixed feelings about what you said.

Having roots from Sub-Saharan Africa I know for a fact that even Muslim majority countries below the Sahara are often treated as 2nd rate citizens, mostly because government and high positions are given to the Christian elite. Some of this is due to the lack of western education that the Islamic populace has, and some due to the balance of power Christians have in these countries. It's sad to see people from the same country being unfair to the others, but that seems to be the case for most of Sub-Saharan Africa.

Now, I can only speak Sub-Sahara, but I'm not sure if the same is for North Africa and the ME.

Wow Sega, such a thought provoking perspective, thanks! I guess it boils down to a couple of things:

- how long should people hold grudges?
- looking for moral equivalencies

As far as grudge-holding goes, every human alive is living on some earlier tribe's land. We all naturally hold grudges for a while, and then we slowly forget. As a silly example, these days Druids in England seldom protest against the English who invaded their land 2000 years ago. On the other hand, no one will soon forgive ISIS. So somehow there's an amount of time that passes, and we all get used to old insults.

As far as moral equivalencies go, I think we have to look at intentions and how wide-spread the behaviors are.

So I don't think it's useful to compare century-old colonialism to present-day genocide.

But perhaps you can give more details? I might not have understood your post exactly.

 

[icehorse]

Hi Smart_Guy,

Well remember the OP in this case is about ISIS. So, this particular thread is going to include politics

My understanding is that ISIS is demanding Jizya (really high amounts!) and doing far worse.

So I think the OP is about whether ISIS is following Islam or not - correct? So I can guess that you would say they are not - hooray!

But I'm still of the opinion that the way Islamic scripture is written, it's extremely easy for extremists to use the scripture to justify their violent actions. Lot's of Muslims on this forum have tried to explain to me that the scripture isn't violent or intolerant. I appreciate the efforts of peace-loving people everywhere. That said, I think the scripture really is a big problem.

I think that if you could debate an ISIS member about the Quran, he could make really, really strong arguments that ISIS is acting exactly as the Quran instructs.

_____________
defend net neutrality - "without love in the game, insanity's king"

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hi Smart_Guy,

Well remember the OP in this case is about ISIS. So, this particular thread is going to include politics

My understanding is that ISIS is demanding Jizya (really high amounts!) and doing far worse.

So I think the OP is about whether ISIS is following Islam or not - correct? So I can guess that you would say they are not - hooray!

But I'm still of the opinion that the way Islamic scripture is written, it's extremely easy for extremists to use the scripture to justify their violent actions. Lot's of Muslims on this forum have tried to explain to me that the scripture isn't violent or intolerant. I appreciate the efforts of peace-loving people everywhere. That said, I think the scripture really is a big problem.

I think that if you could debate an ISIS member about the Quran, he could make really, really strong arguments that ISIS is acting exactly as the Quran instructs.

_____________
defend net neutrality - "without love in the game, insanity's king"

Just a while back I confirmed that ISIS is nothing but a group managed by some low life thugs. Before, I was neutral about them just because I didn't know them well and never really was on their side, and I was accused more than once that I was in their favor. It is very well known that jizya is no where close to big amount. And no, ISIS is not following Islam.

Yes, they would argue that their methods are the right things to do. Anyone actually would do that.

Yes, Islam is a complicated law. That is why religious decisions are never to be made by one person or two, and not in a day and night. It should be heavily studied by a group of knowledgeable people and for a long time before applied. Prophet Muhammad warned about this and said the the faster a person to give religious advices, the closest they are to hell. I believe ISIS made their decisions in a minute or two.

Yes, I agree with the OP that ISIS is not a representative for Islam and that they don't follow the teachings of Islam.

I'd like to stop here. Believe it or not, I'm putting my life on the line in these posts for being the person where I am. Please understand.

 

[icehorse]

stay safe!

 

[TashaN]

I don't have lots of information about them. But there is a hadith saying: "There will be people in my Community whose mark is that they shave (their heads). They will recite Qur'an, but it will not go past their throats. They will pass through religion the way an arrow passes through its target. They are the worst of human beings and the worst of all creation."

I think that may be what we are talking about here.

They speak in the name of religion and in the name of Islam but they are far away from Islam. Not only far from Islam, but far away from anything has to be with being a human.

I totally agree.

 

[Godobeyer]

Iraq and Syrian military should helped to eliminate this group of terrorists

 

[metis]

Iraq and Syrian military should helped to eliminate this group of terrorists

... along with the terrorist group Hamas?

 

[Godobeyer]

... along with the terrorist group Hamas?

NO , inspite they done some errors.

since you considere Hamas group

I considere Israel is terrorist state .

Group vs State :beach:

 

[metis]

NO , inspite they done some errors.

since you considere Hamas group

I considere Israel is terrorist state .

Group vs State :beach:

A governing body whose stated purpose is the destruction of an entire country, who puts its own population in deep jeopardy, who ignores cease-fire agreements so as to kill more and have their own people killed, and the best you can call them is a "group"? I would suggest the Hamas has far more in common with ISIS than any civilized governing body.

 

[Godobeyer]

A governing body whose stated purpose is the destruction of an entire country, who puts its own population in deep jeopardy, who ignores cease-fire agreements so as to kill more and have their own people killed, and the best you can call them is a "group"? I would suggest the Hamas has far more in common with ISIS than any civilized governing body.

You (in previous post ) called them "group " so , you retire your word ?

Israel is worst than ISIS, why ?

ISIS don't have aircrafts ,don't have tanks or nuclear weapons ...etc

Both (ISIS and Israel regime) are racist and terroist, they justify for their crimes .

 

[Godobeyer]

sorry but , why this thread take wrong direction to politic !!!

 

[icehorse]

Hi Godobeyer,

We could go on endlessly about Israel (as we can see in other forums), but I will say this much. If you look at Israel's population in uncontested territories you see that Israel is in fact the most inclusive state in the ME. How many Muslims live peacefully in Israel. How many Christians? Name other states in the ME that treat their non-Muslim populations as well.

Comparing Israel to ISIS is ridiculous.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hey guys, I'm gonna unsubscribe from this thread so I won't be notified for any replies to my posts. Sorry if any tension took place between us. In the end we only state our opinions that does not affect the normal respect dignified and honorable good people have for each other by default.

If you need anything from me, please don't hesitate to contact me via the available ways found in my profile.

I hope we meet again in other discussions

 

[oldbadger]

ISIS don't have aircrafts ,don't have tanks or nuclear weapons ...etc

Thank goodness for that.
If ISIS did have Aircraft and nuclear weapons, I just hate to think of what they would do with them. Then we would see a marked difference between ISIS and Israel!

 

[Godobeyer]

Hi Godobeyer,

We could go on endlessly about Israel (as we can see in other forums), but I will say this much. If you look at Israel's population in uncontested territories you see that Israel is in fact the most inclusive state in the ME. How many Muslims live peacefully in Israel. How many Christians? Name other states in the ME that treat their non-Muslim populations as well.

Comparing Israel to ISIS is ridiculous.

Hi dear icehorse

Yes , they lived peacefully in racist regime, some of them abused and some of them their homes destructed , or taken by force .

there is abuse against the muslims Holly Mosque in Israel , "Alaqsa" , which always the police let the extremist jews to get enter to provoke the muslims inside it .

there are much jews agree here in RF , know that the Muslims and Arabs suffered by racist and distinction in Israel .

I posted many videos made by JEWS lived in Israel , i am just curious if you interesting to watch them , I can say, if you watched them , you would not ask me these questions ?

it's not only ME who said Israel had racist problem with non-jews citizens , The Israeli-jews them selfs admit that .

Hamas should edit their charter , and Israel regime should change it's treatement to Muslims and Arabs .

It's not ridiculus to compare Satan to Devil .
because it's the same lable to bad doers .

I am feel that i am fair enough .

 

[icehorse]

Hey guys, I'm gonna unsubscribe from this thread so I won't be notified for any replies to my posts. Sorry if any tension took place between us. In the end we only state our opinions that does not affect the normal respect dignified and honorable good people have for each other by default.

If you need anything from me, please don't hesitate to contact me via the available ways found in my profile.

I hope we meet again in other discussions

Thank you for your thoughtful conversation Smart_Guy.

 

[icehorse]

Godobeyer,

I suspect that the news you see and read is very different than the news I see and read. I also suspect that if there is such a thing as "the truth" it's in the middle - somewhere between what your news sources tell you and what mine tell me.

For everyone's sake, it would be fantastic if there was a news source we could really rely on.

 

[Godobeyer]

Thank goodness for that.
If ISIS did have Aircraft and nuclear weapons, I just hate to think of what they would do with them. Then we would see a marked difference between ISIS and Israel!

there is little difference ,ISIS killing only Arabs (muslims and christians ) and kurds inncents right now , Israel targeted only the Arabs. so ,there is one different (Kurds)


IF ISIS would had Aircraft they will do crimes, as Israel did in Gaza .


Israel ministre said " He wish to bomb Gaza by atomic bomb"

so
"They want but they can't"

 

[Godobeyer]

Godobeyer,

I suspect that the news you see and read is very different than the news I see and read. I also suspect that if there is such a thing as "the truth" it's in the middle - somewhere between what your news sources tell you and what mine tell me.

For everyone's sake, it would be fantastic if there was a news source we could really rely on.

Yes , kind like that , different sources , made different opinions

I believe The media are diffusing opinion among the news , so could be the truth is other side , but the media show it as wrong .

the truth is corrupted to serve other wrong , i believe that the media and people are lie sometimes to make them selfs right , include my sources of media .

+ I know some jews are almost agree with me , and some others almost disagree with me .

honestly for my experience (maybe you notice that) that sometimes , when i faced a member by what I believe the truth , sometimes they skipp to reply or stop reply .

the truth could not be defeated , and no one is perfect here .

 

[columbus]

Iraqis under ISIS control say their lives have gotten better

Just felt like bumping this up.

Tom