Why literal creationists are abusing scripture

[AllanV]

And God said " let the earth bring forth the living creature each after their own kind"
Sometimes it works to take a dictionary to find alternate meanings.
Over time actual animate life forms appeared on the earth and seperated into different species.

Another "the life of the flesh is in the blood" Modern medicine tests the blood to determine health and some science can determine physical attributes of the subject. Some people have had a noticeable tempory personality change after a blood transfusion.

 

[Willamena]

Of rock? Yes of course...but as you said, once you begin to take the context, intent, etc......the primary meaning changes.

Idioms do something similar. The primary meaning is just something known by the people reading it. The primary meaning of "needle in a haystack" is something hard to find.

Oh! I see what you mean. But no, the "literal" is the most shallow interpretation of the image provided by the spoken word(s), that is the one that looks only at the image, nothing deeper. For instance, as a stage comedian recently pointed out, if swear words were to be "taken literally" some of them would actually be complimentary.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

Thoughts?

I think that this guy just does what any person does when he is not willing to abandon his religion in the face of reality ... he speaks about his religious book belonging to a special "genre" that must be "understood" properly.
Of course he now (today) can say that creationists are wrong, knowing what he now knows... Of course he now can say that it has to "interpreted", something i doubt he would have said 2000 years ago.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The irony of this notion of creationism is that it not only involves many scientific errors, but is also the result of a bad theological mistake. When we read any kind of deep literature, if we are to give it the respect that it deserves we must make sure we understand the genre of what is written. Mistaking poetry for prose can lead to false conclusions. When Robert Burns tell us his love “is like a red, red rose”, we know that we are not meant to think that his girlfriend has green leaves and prickles. Reading Genesis 1 as if it were a divinely dictated scientific text, intended to save us the trouble of actually doing science, is to make a similar kind of error.

And reading the prickly passages of Genesis as if they were intended as metaphor is wishful thinking at best.

The phenomenon is almost touching: as our scientific understanding expands more and more of the Torah is gratefully 'discovered' to be metaphorical. But how is this reverse engineering not fundamentally disrespectful of the efforts of a people to understand their God, their universe, and their place and purpose? Must we really be so ashamed of their worldview?

 

[Renji]

The story of Adam and Eve or creation is just a symbol that shows God's (or god's) power. I don't know why some Christians take it literally (maybe because they don't want to believe that humans evolved from lower forms of life).

 

[Father Heathen]

(maybe because they don't want to believe that humans evolved from lower forms of life).

Is bible says we were made from dirt, so how is that any better?

 

[Renji]

Is bible says we were made from dirt, so how is that any better?

Exactly. And sometimes they use (abuse) the story of creation to disprove some theories like the evolution. Literalists should not be afraid of whatever the science say about things like our origin for no one had seen the creation and if you look at it, it does not contradict any passage in the Bible esp. the story of creation because the story is just symbolical.

 

[Willamena]

Is bible says we were made from dirt...

Good example of the literal, looking only at the image. :yes:

 

[Evolution_Not]

"Literal creationism", the somewhat absurd (at least, to me - no offense intended) idea that G-d created the entire Universe in seven literal days as we now measure them, I think is a bad misinterpretation of what the account of creation in Parashah 1 (B're/Gen 1:1-6:8) is attempting to stress.

If the 7 days (Time reference) is not to be taken literaly then what is the point of including it? If one suggest that it is metaphoric then what is the metaphore? If it is symbolic then what is it symbolic of?

 

[Father Heathen]

If the 7 days (Time reference) is not to be taken literaly then what is the point of including it? If one suggest that it is metaphoric then what is the metaphore? If it is symbolic then what is it symbolic of?

As parables and allegories is the only light in which the book has any redeemable value.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

If the 7 days (Time reference) is not to be taken literaly then what is the point of including it? If one suggest that it is metaphoric then what is the metaphore? If it is symbolic then what is it symbolic of?

Very good question ... easy answer .. there is would be no point and no metaphor, at least none that you could conclusively reason for.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As parables and allegories is the only light in which the book has any redeemable value.

What arrogant rubbish!

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

What arrogant rubbish!

I don't think that this is arrogance. Objectively seen it is a valid and reasonable assumption.
But i think it is very easy and often convenient to accuse others of arrogance.

 

[Father Heathen]

What arrogant rubbish!

I thought I was being rather generous.

 

[Evolution_Not]

Well I have a theory: Since God knows history in advance and knows every thought
and every uterance of every one that has or will live then it would not be unconceivable that it is a response to those who would claim billions of years. And did it before science was even established.
Further stating that things reproduce after their kind i.e. elephants produce elephants. Where as in Macro evolution it is suggested that birds came from dinosaurs or people from apes, a change of one kind to another. Again pre-empting
the evolutionist.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

Well I have a theory: Since God knows history in advance and knows every thought
and every uterance of every one that has or will live then it would not be unconceivable that it is a response to those who would claim billions of years. And did it before science was even established.
Further stating that things reproduce after their kind i.e. elephants produce elephants. Where as in Macro evolution it is suggested that birds came from dinosaurs or people from apes, a change of one kind to another. Again pre-empting
the evolutionist.

I am not sure I understood what you said.
Do you mean God knew that man would err and once believe in evolution and the bible states what is true in order to make people once realize the error and come to believe in it again ?

 

[Evolution_Not]

I am not sure I understood what you said.
Do you mean God knew that man would err and once believe in evolution and the bible states what is true in order to make people once realize the error and come to believe in it again ?

When we read the account we are looking back and God is projecting down through
time giving an answer to critics. I think it's quite clever. I doubt that this would sway anyone who has already decided what they believe. I do think it just further
confirms the true God versus the spinoffs. Some will actually investigate the claims
from both sides before making up their minds, no easy task. These I respect regardless of what they decide. There is a lot of crap on all sides to discard.

 

[AllanV]

The story of Adam and Eve or creation is just a symbol that shows God's (or god's) power. I don't know why some Christians take it literally (maybe because they don't want to believe that humans evolved from lower forms of life).

Adam was a son of god who rebelled. By taking on the knowlege of Good and evil all mankind now either inadvertently or purposely has to experience both to be balanced. The bad has to be experienced to know what good is. It comes out of their inner makeup. To stop man being immortal a spirit was put in place where all humans are subconsciously connected to play out all the drama that is seen. Do others get into your head and how do you deal with it? Personal power is different for every one. How does it work? Is it low level witch craft? The bible gives insights into this. Science is exploring aging and are making descoveries that could be confirming that living longer or even for ever should be possible.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

When we read the account we are looking back and God is projecting down through
time giving an answer to critics. I think it's quite clever. I doubt that this would sway anyone who has already decided what they believe. I do think it just further
confirms the true God versus the spinoffs. Some will actually investigate the claims
from both sides before making up their minds, no easy task. These I respect regardless of what they decide. There is a lot of crap on all sides to discard.

I am sorry, i still do not understand it.
I do see what you write but i don't see your position.
Is it to be taken literally in the sense that it was 7 days or not ?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I don't think that this is arrogance. Objectively seen it is a valid and reasonable assumption.

Rubbish. It is the most shallow and bigoted deprecation of a people's effort to understand and define themselves and their environment in relationship to their God.

But i think it is very easy and often convenient to accuse others of arrogance.

In the case of some positions it is, indeed, far too easy.