Why mankind?

[Skwim]

In another thread I posted the following

"Speaking from a point of view that acknowledges the Christian god, I would say that we wake up each morning to play god's grand game of life. He created us to satisfy some needed diversion within his existence. To express a rather trite analogy, we are but mere pawns in his game of chess."

​

This immediately got me thinking about what others, principally the religious, thought was god's reason for creating life, and in particular, us. And keep in mind the type of creatures we are, and the rules god has, according to your belief, set up for us.


Got any ideas?

 

[Nakosis]

In another thread I posted the following

"Speaking from a point of view that acknowledges the Christian god, I would say that we wake up each morning to play god's grand game of life. He created us to satisfy some needed diversion within his existence. To express a rather trite analogy, we are but mere pawns in his game of chess."

​

This immediately got me thinking about what others, principally the religious, thought was god's reason for creating life, and in particular, us. And keep in mind the type of creatures we are, and the rules god has, according to your belief, set up for us.


Got any ideas?

Deep down, I've always suspected it was for the entertainment value.

 

[miss interpret]

It may have been some kind of experiment.

 

[Quintessence]

Well, I don't exactly work with the Christian god or any other monotheistic god-concept. Asking for "reasons" why deities do things is... in many respects a human frivolity. Things are the way they are because that's the way they are. Life evolved out of the laws of nature/deities because of properties intrinsic to the fabric of reality/nature/deities. I'm not sure I would say there is really "reason" behind it. It is like asking what the "reason" is that gravity exists. It just does, and we wouldn't be here to think about any of these silly questions if it didn't.

The universe/nature/deity is.

 

[Skwim]

It may have been some kind of experiment.

Like god's lab rat project for heaven's science fair.

 

[Skwim]

Well, I don't exactly work with the Christian god or any other monotheistic god-concept. Asking for "reasons" why deities do things is... in many respects a human frivolity.

Like most speculation, but because the religious do assign specifics such as characteristics and reasons, along with a bit of history to their god, I think it would be interesting to see them carry their concept of god in this direction.

 

[connermt]

In another thread I posted the following

"Speaking from a point of view that acknowledges the Christian god, I would say that we wake up each morning to play god's grand game of life. He created us to satisfy some needed diversion within his existence. To express a rather trite analogy, we are but mere pawns in his game of chess."

​

This immediately got me thinking about what others, principally the religious, thought was god's reason for creating life, and in particular, us. And keep in mind the type of creatures we are, and the rules god has, according to your belief, set up for us.


Got any ideas?

Maybe god needed a good laugh...?
Seriously though, what I have heard from "elders" with (supposedly more wisdom and knowledge) was that god created everything and saw it was good, but wanted something to worship itself. Thus god created people.
To me, that doesn't sound like any supreme, perfect deity at all. But it made sense to them so they "stuck with it", like so many other god concepts they adhere to.
Looking around and knowing of the christian god what I know based on decades of experience, it seems like either:
1) god created us & got bored so it moved on to bigger & better things, &/or
2) god gets off on watching us suffer and beg for his help &/or
3) there is no god per the christian concept.

I picked #3 as a primary reason, followed by #2.

 

[idav]

Got any ideas?

I can only compare reasons we create things. Many reasons like creating something to use as a tool or perhaps just a work of art to express ourself. Humans were probably just created for the art factor as I doubt we would be particularly useful to an all powerful being.

 

[crocusj]

In another thread I posted the following

"Speaking from a point of view that acknowledges the Christian god, I would say that we wake up each morning to play god's grand game of life. He created us to satisfy some needed diversion within his existence. To express a rather trite analogy, we are but mere pawns in his game of chess."

​

This immediately got me thinking about what others, principally the religious, thought was god's reason for creating life, and in particular, us. And keep in mind the type of creatures we are, and the rules god has, according to your belief, set up for us.


Got any ideas?

To define itself.

 

[1137]

In another thread I posted the following

"Speaking from a point of view that acknowledges the Christian god, I would say that we wake up each morning to play god's grand game of life. He created us to satisfy some needed diversion within his existence. To express a rather trite analogy, we are but mere pawns in his game of chess."

​

This immediately got me thinking about what others, principally the religious, thought was god's reason for creating life, and in particular, us. And keep in mind the type of creatures we are, and the rules god has, according to your belief, set up for us.


Got any ideas?

Well, let us start by looking at what makes Spirit Spirit (or what makes God God to fit this thread better). God is infinite, all powerful, perfectly balanced (not all loving), all present, and all knowing. There are many things just in discussing the nature of god that may answer why this reality was created in the first place.

God is all-knowing. This means that there is no room for wisdom, understanding, or ignorance for that matter. God would know that these things are possible, but it could not understand them the way we do. God is perfectly balanced, so it can experience neither mercy nor justice, peace nor adversity, freedom or restriction, etc. God can neither be happy nor sad, tired nor awake, hungry nor full, etc etc etc. God is infinite, so it cannot experience limitation. God is all-powerful, so it cannot experience weakness. There are many more examples for each.

The most popular idea of God these days is Christian in nature. This is where the majority of problems arise from trying to understand why. It says that God is good where Satan is evil, that God is love and Satan is hate, that God is vindicator and Satan is accuser, that God is Light and Satan is Darkness. All of this is silly though. God is both Dark and Light, good and evil, love and hate, vindicator and accuser. Look back into the mythology of Judaism, which is the very religion Christianity came out of. The angel Samael (you could say the original concept of Satan) is seen by men as evil. He is the angel of death, the adversary, etc. However, Samael is still an Angel, and he is the Left-Hand of God. This means that Samael is still doing the work of God. If there is going to be mercy and love, there must also be an opposer who restricts that flow of mercy and love, otherwise there would be chaos. God is balanced, not chaotic. Samael is actually the keeper of balance, keeping the nature of God from entering chaos. He, the adversary, is the most important aspect of the Divine.

Anyways, I do not think that God created us for entertainment. I think God created the natural, material world to fill it with "pieces" of itself (souls / energy) in order to experience things it could not. You have to realize that our reality here is dualistic, there is matter and Spirit. But, where pure Spirit is, there is Spiritual Monism.

 

[Skwim]

God is all-knowing. This means that there is no room for wisdom, understanding, or ignorance for that matter. God would know that these things are possible, but it could not understand them the way we do.

Okay.

God is perfectly balanced, so it can experience neither mercy nor justice, peace nor adversity, freedom or restriction, etc. God can neither be happy nor sad, tired nor awake, hungry nor full, etc etc etc. God is infinite, so it cannot experience limitation. God is all-powerful, so it cannot experience weakness. There are many more examples for each.

Okay.

The most popular idea of God these days is Christian in nature. This is where the majority of problems arise from trying to understand why. It says that God is good where Satan is evil, that God is love and Satan is hate, that God is vindicator and Satan is accuser, that God is Light and Satan is Darkness. All of this is silly though. God is both Dark and Light, good and evil, love and hate, vindicator and accuser. Look back into the mythology of Judaism, which is the very religion Christianity came out of. The angel Samael (you could say the original concept of Satan) is seen by men as evil. He is the angel of death, the adversary, etc. However, Samael is still an Angel, and he is the Left-Hand of God. This means that Samael is still doing the work of God. If there is going to be mercy and love, there must also be an opposer who restricts that flow of mercy and love, otherwise there would be chaos. God is balanced, not chaotic. Samael is actually the keeper of balance, keeping the nature of God from entering chaos. He, the adversary, is the most important aspect of the Divine.

Okay.

Anyways, I do not think that God created us for entertainment. I think God created the natural, material world to fill it with "pieces" of itself (souls / energy) in order to experience things it could not.

So obviously god was missing something. He needed to experience what; hate, bigotry, lust, anger, vengeance, discord, fear, anguish, sorrow, pity, etc. etc.? Nice of him to burden thinking, feeling, and rational creatures with these travails just so he could experience them. Certainly isn't coming across as something worthy of worship, but that's just my opinion.

 

[1137]

So obviously god was missing something. He needed to experience what; hate, bigotry, lust, anger, vengeance, discord, fear, anguish, sorrow, pity, etc. etc.?

Don't forget that only with those things can you have love, acceptance, chastity, calm, mercy, agreement, courage, peace, happiness, etc, etc, etc.

Nice of him to burden thinking, feeling, and rational creatures with these travails just so he could experience them.

Well, we wouldn't exist without God, if God created us. That is a flaw in your reasoning. We are one with the Divine. We exists through it, it experiences through us. Be thankful for both your misery and happiness, they are unique experiences that nobody else gets to experience. Don't be happy about them, be thankful. Without suffering and ignorance you would not have the ability to learn or experience happiness.

Certainly isn't coming across as something worthy of worship, but that's just my opinion.

I don't remember saying to worship God. Worshiping is utter nonsense. First of all, part of me will never let go of the feelings of hate towards God, God is cruel to make me have experienced all I have. But, I also feel love because those surgeries, addictions, losses, etc formed who I am, and I am proud of who I am. Don't worship God, respect it.

 

[1137]

God is ignorant of our reality, we are ignorant of God's reality. By understanding one, we understand the other, the two become One. As above, so below.

 

[crocusj]

Don't forget that only with those things can you have love, acceptance, chastity, calm, mercy, agreement, courage, peace, happiness, etc, etc, etc.

How is this so? Opposites are neither causal nor influential. I can both experience and recognise love without any definition of hate, any parent can. These emotions exist on their own. If I know anger and I know peace they are not interdependant, they are states that exist dependant on circumstance. If a god had to "experience" why not just experience (create) that which is pleasureable? Why subject his medium (us) to that which is not just for his own edification?

 

[1137]

How is this so? Opposites are neither causal nor influential. I can both experience and recognise love without any definition of hate, any parent can. These emotions exist on their own. If I know anger and I know peace they are not interdependant, they are states that exist dependant on circumstance.

Well, there are different kinds of love, such as Agape - Selfless Love. Anyways, one does not exist without the other. Say you are sitting in a pitch black room, your bedroom let's say. There is NO light. In fact, light does not even exist. You have never seen light, heard of this thing called light, etc. Therefore, you are not going to say you are sitting in darkness, as the existence of darkness is not recognized without light. Being in pitch black would simply be, it is the natural state. If hate did not exist, neither would love. Only balance would exist. A state of complete neutrality.

If a god had to "experience" why not just experience (create) that which is pleasureable? Why subject his medium (us) to that which is not just for his own edification?

What would be the point of that? As pointed out before, once you leave the balanced position and attain pleasure, suffering is created also. Not to mention Free Will, we have the ability to create unbalance and suffering / happiness as well as become balanced again and become One with God.

 

[Quagmire]

He wanted someone to argue with.

 

[Reptillian]

If the universe is a purposeful creation, then men are flecks of paint on a non-essential part.

 

[Skwim]

Don't forget that only with those things can you have love, acceptance, chastity, calm, mercy, agreement, courage, peace, happiness, etc, etc, etc.

Balderdash and poppy crock.

Well, we wouldn't exist without God, if God created us. That is a flaw in your reasoning. We are one with the Divine. We exists through it, it experiences through us. Be thankful for both your misery and happiness, they are unique experiences that nobody else gets to experience. Don't be happy about them, be thankful. Without suffering and ignorance you would not have the ability to learn or experience happiness.

What flaw? Even if everything you say here is correct (and I don't buy it for a minute) it still wouldn't change the fact that under your claim he burdened thinking, feeling, and rational creatures with these travails just so he could experience them.

 

[crocusj]

Well, there are different kinds of love, such as Agape - Selfless Love. Anyways, one does not exist without the other. Say you are sitting in a pitch black room, your bedroom let's say. There is NO light. In fact, light does not even exist. You have never seen light, heard of this thing called light, etc. Therefore, you are not going to say you are sitting in darkness, as the existence of darkness is not recognized without light. Being in pitch black would simply be, it is the natural state. If hate did not exist, neither would love. Only balance would exist. A state of complete neutrality.

But the darkness would still exist without the light, it would merely be nameless. In what way does this explain how love cannot exist without hate. By pedantry? Love exists without hate and without deference to some sort of mythical balancing act. We put words to our emotions, we do not feel to fulfill a definition.

What would be the point of that? As pointed out before, once you leave the balanced position and attain pleasure, suffering is created also. Not to mention Free Will, we have the ability to create unbalance and suffering / happiness as well as become balanced again and become One with God.

I am not arguing that humans do not cause suffering as well as happiness but your idea that a god created us in order that it might feel what it cannot through us does assume that the god can feel no pleasure. That a god cannot experience peace. Well, that would be a leap into the head of a god for both of us but from your point of view it would also indicate a need within the mind or heart of that god. How does need equate to balance?

 

[1137]

What flaw? Even if everything you say here is correct (and I don't buy it for a minute) it still wouldn't change the fact that under your claim he burdened thinking, feeling, and rational creatures with these travails just so he could experience them.

Actually, the ability to think, feel, and rationalize (aka think (again)) would not exist in this theory I am presenting. If Spirit is all-knowing, it does not think. It does not feel, nor rationalize either. We have these abilities because our "soul" is a piece of the whole. Spirit would not have known how much suffering would have sucked, it had never experienced it. Some religions / philosophies think that after a certain amount of time in this reality, souls / spiritual energy longs to reconnect with Spirit because this reality sucks.

But the darkness would still exist without the light, it would merely be nameless. In what way does this explain how love cannot exist without hate. By pedantry? Love exists without hate and without deference to some sort of mythical balancing act. We put words to our emotions, we do not feel to fulfill a definition.

Ok, so it is incorrect to say that love cannot exist without hate. Love cannot be recognized without hate is the same difference to me anyways. If you do not recognize it then it does not exist in the same respect.

Btw, it's a mystical balancing act, mot mythical

I am not arguing that humans do not cause suffering as well as happiness but your idea that a god created us in order that it might feel what it cannot through us does assume that the god can feel no pleasure. That a god cannot experience peace. Well, that would be a leap into the head of a god for both of us but from your point of view it would also indicate a need within the mind or heart of that god. How does need equate to balance?

Spirit, itself, would not be able to feel pleasure, no. Nor can it experience peace, at least the concept of peace we hold. Simply balance and perfection. You are not understanding God as I am explaining it though, which is why I have begun calling it Spirit. I tried to specify that "God" is a concept, not the anthropomorphic theistic deity of modern religions. Spirit did not "need" to do this, it chose to. That is a take on it at least. I doubt we could understand Spirit to a full extent, we barely understand ourselves.