Why not be selfish?

[Erebus]

This is largely aimed at people who either don't believe in an afterlife or at least don't believe in punishment/reward in the afterlife.
If you only get one shot at life, why care what people think of you when you're gone? Leaving a legacy of peace and kindness won't mean a jot to you if you cease to exist and will ultimately be forgotten by either the passage of time or the inevitable apocalyptic demise of our species.
Why not devote your life to yourself? Why not be utterly ruthless in the pursuit of power and wealth, look out only for yourself and your loved ones and let all others be damned? Why not strike a balance between self preservation and satisfying your desires and leave any concept of morality out of the equation?
Why care about any concept of honesty, honour or decency if it's ultimately futile? With no threat of punishment, no promise of reward and no material gain or loss after death, why not be selfish?

For those wondering, this isn't a smug "I'm a theist and thus morally superior" argument. I do my best to live the lifestyle I described. I just honestly don't understand why anybody would follow conventional notions of morality and decency when there is ultimately nothing to be gained from it. I don't get why people feel they should be "good".


Oh one more thing, I can completely understand staying within the law so as to avoid punishment and I'm not suggesting being obnoxious to everybody you meet (which in my opinion is actually counterproductive). This is more along the lines of if you could steal money and not be caught, why wouldn't you do it? If you could backstab a co-worker to get a raise what's stopping you?

 

[Reptillian]

This is largely aimed at people who either don't believe in an afterlife or at least don't believe in punishment/reward in the afterlife.
If you only get one shot at life, why care what people think of you when you're gone? Leaving a legacy of peace and kindness won't mean a jot to you if you cease to exist and will ultimately be forgotten by either the passage of time or the inevitable apocalyptic demise of our species.
Why not devote your life to yourself? Why not be utterly ruthless in the pursuit of power and wealth, look out only for yourself and your loved ones and let all others be damned? Why not strike a balance between self preservation and satisfying your desires and leave any concept of morality out of the equation?
Why care about any concept of honesty, honour or decency if it's ultimately futile? With no threat of punishment, no promise of reward and no material gain or loss after death, why not be selfish?

For those wondering, this isn't a smug "I'm a theist and thus morally superior" argument. I do my best to live the lifestyle I described. I just honestly don't understand why anybody would follow conventional notions of morality and decency when there is ultimately nothing to be gained from it. I don't get why people feel they should be "good".


Oh one more thing, I can completely understand staying within the law so as to avoid punishment and I'm not suggesting being obnoxious to everybody you meet (which in my opinion is actually counterproductive). This is more along the lines of if you could steal money and not be caught, why wouldn't you do it? If you could backstab a co-worker to get a raise what's stopping you?

I don't think good is something that only has benefits in the hereafter, good has benefits in the here and now. As Socrates argued, "Its better to suffer injustice than to cause it" Righteousness is its own reward.

 

[idav]

I try to be good because I'd like the same in return.

 

[Caladan]

I may not believe in the supernatural, or the afterlife. but I believe in Judaism's concept of essential humanity. just like compassion is instinctual to many people, so is integrity, honesty, standing up for your loved ones and friends, and also leaving a continuation of human dignity and even civilization behind you.

 

[Meow Mix]

This is largely aimed at people who either don't believe in an afterlife or at least don't believe in punishment/reward in the afterlife.
If you only get one shot at life, why care what people think of you when you're gone? Leaving a legacy of peace and kindness won't mean a jot to you if you cease to exist and will ultimately be forgotten by either the passage of time or the inevitable apocalyptic demise of our species.
Why not devote your life to yourself? Why not be utterly ruthless in the pursuit of power and wealth, look out only for yourself and your loved ones and let all others be damned? Why not strike a balance between self preservation and satisfying your desires and leave any concept of morality out of the equation?
Why care about any concept of honesty, honour or decency if it's ultimately futile? With no threat of punishment, no promise of reward and no material gain or loss after death, why not be selfish?

For those wondering, this isn't a smug "I'm a theist and thus morally superior" argument. I do my best to live the lifestyle I described. I just honestly don't understand why anybody would follow conventional notions of morality and decency when there is ultimately nothing to be gained from it. I don't get why people feel they should be "good".


Oh one more thing, I can completely understand staying within the law so as to avoid punishment and I'm not suggesting being obnoxious to everybody you meet (which in my opinion is actually counterproductive). This is more along the lines of if you could steal money and not be caught, why wouldn't you do it? If you could backstab a co-worker to get a raise what's stopping you?

I do good because I desire to do good. Why do I desire to do that? I don't know -- why do I like the color green? I think there are biological imperatives for altruism involved, I think the negativeness associated with guilt (which is uncontrollable) is involved, I think the pleasure of knowing I have done the right thing is involved, but most of all I just feel inclined to do the right thing rather than the thing that increases suffering.

It hardly seems moral to me to do the right thing in order to reap reward and to avoid punishment. Morality, to me, is to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. In the same way that you must be rational only if your goal is to be a rational being, I must be moral because one of my goals is to be a moral being. I don't know why I have that goal any more than I know why I have the goal of being a rational being, but I'm going to fulfill it as consistently as I can. Somehow I suspect this isn't any different from moral theists, either.

 

[Meow Mix]

I may not believe in the supernatural, or the afterlife. but I believe in Judaism's concept of essential humanity. just like compassion is instinctual to many people, so is integrity, honesty, standing up for your loved ones and friends, and also leaving a continuation of human dignity and even civilization behind you.

This, too.

I have never understood worldviews that treat humanity as inherently beastial, violent, selfish, and generally abhorrent. These traits exist, but it seems to me that humans are also inherently the things Caladan mentions. Given the ability to grow, these good things preclude the bad.

 

[Reptillian]

This, too.

I have never understood worldviews that treat humanity as inherently beastial, violent, selfish, and generally abhorrent. These traits exist, but it seems to me that humans are also inherently the things Caladan mentions. Given the ability to grow, these good things preclude the bad.

I've always liked Pascal's view that men are both beasts and angels. An infinite nothing and an infinite something. A reed, but a thinking reed. The pride and refuse of the universe!

 

[Erebus]

I do good because I desire to do good. Why do I desire to do that? I don't know -- why do I like the color green? I think there are biological imperatives for altruism involved

This makes sense to me, I've briefly read about the evolutionary benefits of altruism in the past. I also understand that as a result of this it can feel good to be pleasant with others. Making people laugh for example makes me laugh in turn, though I consider that to be A. a reward in itself with no cost and B. likely to make yourself seem more trustworthy which can itself pay off in the future.
Simply put I understand the appeal in this:

do the right thing in order to reap reward and to avoid punishment.

I can't get my head round this:

Morality, to me, is to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do

 

[Meow Mix]

This makes sense to me, I've briefly read about the evolutionary benefits of altruism in the past. I also understand that as a result of this it can feel good to be pleasant with others. Making people laugh for example makes me laugh in turn, though I consider that to be A. a reward in itself with no cost and B. likely to make yourself seem more trustworthy which can itself pay off in the future.
Simply put I understand the appeal in this:

I can't get my head round this:

It makes sense to me, I don't know how to share that sensation though. I don't see anything wrong with doing the right thing to reap reward and avoid punishment, and there's probably never an instance where doing good doesn't involve that; but I just know that when I do the right thing (by abstaining from the wrong thing or by actively doing something positive) I'm usually not concerned with rewards and punishments. Perhaps only the reward of feeling consistent with my goals of doing the right thing -- the hypothetical imperative fulfilled.

 

[Quintessence]

I think I'm going to keep my answer to this simple: do what is in accordance with your will/desire and be what you want to see in the world. Devoting your life to yourself doesn't have to carry the sort of narcissism, egoism, and hubris suggested in the OP.

 

[connermt]

This is largely aimed at people who either don't believe in an afterlife or at least don't believe in punishment/reward in the afterlife.
If you only get one shot at life, why care what people think of you when you're gone? Leaving a legacy of peace and kindness won't mean a jot to you if you cease to exist and will ultimately be forgotten by either the passage of time or the inevitable apocalyptic demise of our species.

Why would you equate an afterlife with people caring about what others think of them when they're gone? Where's the connection there?

 

[Erebus]

Why would you equate an afterlife with people caring about what others think of them when they're gone? Where's the connection there?

Simply put, if you cease to exist what does it matter if you're thought of as Hitler or a Saint? You won't be around to care either way.

 

[Meow Mix]

Simply put, if you cease to exist what does it matter if you're thought of as Hitler or a Saint? You won't be around to care either way.

I don't care about my reputation or my legacy, but it matters to me while I'm still alive that I leave the next generation the tools and habitat they need to enjoy the same experiences I was able to.

 

[connermt]

Simply put, if you cease to exist what does it matter if you're thought of as Hitler or a Saint? You won't be around to care either way.

Caring what people say/think about you while you're here is just about as pointless as after you're gone. Which is why I asked the question originally.
That's not to say it's an easy thing to do though..

 

[CarlinKnew]

This is largely aimed at people who either don't believe in an afterlife or at least don't believe in punishment/reward in the afterlife.
If you only get one shot at life, why care what people think of you when you're gone? Leaving a legacy of peace and kindness won't mean a jot to you if you cease to exist and will ultimately be forgotten by either the passage of time or the inevitable apocalyptic demise of our species.
Why not devote your life to yourself? Why not be utterly ruthless in the pursuit of power and wealth, look out only for yourself and your loved ones and let all others be damned? Why not strike a balance between self preservation and satisfying your desires and leave any concept of morality out of the equation?
Why care about any concept of honesty, honour or decency if it's ultimately futile? With no threat of punishment, no promise of reward and no material gain or loss after death, why not be selfish?

For those wondering, this isn't a smug "I'm a theist and thus morally superior" argument. I do my best to live the lifestyle I described. I just honestly don't understand why anybody would follow conventional notions of morality and decency when there is ultimately nothing to be gained from it. I don't get why people feel they should be "good".


Oh one more thing, I can completely understand staying within the law so as to avoid punishment and I'm not suggesting being obnoxious to everybody you meet (which in my opinion is actually counterproductive). This is more along the lines of if you could steal money and not be caught, why wouldn't you do it? If you could backstab a co-worker to get a raise what's stopping you?

It feels good to be good. It just so happens that my brain is evolutionarily designed to make me feel fulfilled when I behave in ways that were beneficial to my survival and reproduction 100,000+ years ago, which includes acting in ways that I believe to be moral.

 

[839311]

This is largely aimed at people who either don't believe in an afterlife or at least don't believe in punishment/reward in the afterlife.
If you only get one shot at life, why care what people think of you when you're gone? Leaving a legacy of peace and kindness won't mean a jot to you if you cease to exist and will ultimately be forgotten by either the passage of time or the inevitable apocalyptic demise of our species.
Why not devote your life to yourself? Why not be utterly ruthless in the pursuit of power and wealth, look out only for yourself and your loved ones and let all others be damned? Why not strike a balance between self preservation and satisfying your desires and leave any concept of morality out of the equation?
Why care about any concept of honesty, honour or decency if it's ultimately futile? With no threat of punishment, no promise of reward and no material gain or loss after death, why not be selfish?

For those wondering, this isn't a smug "I'm a theist and thus morally superior" argument. I do my best to live the lifestyle I described. I just honestly don't understand why anybody would follow conventional notions of morality and decency when there is ultimately nothing to be gained from it. I don't get why people feel they should be "good".


Oh one more thing, I can completely understand staying within the law so as to avoid punishment and I'm not suggesting being obnoxious to everybody you meet (which in my opinion is actually counterproductive). This is more along the lines of if you could steal money and not be caught, why wouldn't you do it? If you could backstab a co-worker to get a raise what's stopping you?

Living an ethical life is important to me. If I would steal money, I would feel badly about it, and give it back. I've actually done this before. I was given the wrong change, took it anyways, then went back the next day and gave back the money saying I was doing it because I just felt like doing something good, I didnt actually admit I 'stole' it. But they got it back, thats what matters.

Doing evil has a corrupting effect on me. The thought of becoming an evil person is a repulsive notion. Its people more or less with the kind of ideas you propose in the OP that are the ones that defraud stockholders, set up ponzi schemes, and all kinds of other evil activities that end up harming a lot of people just so they can be selfish and benefit from it. This kind of ideology needs to be opposed.

You say you don't get why people feel they have to be good. Don't you have a conscience? Don't you know what its like to be wronged, that feeling you get of being screwed one way or another that makes you feel like ****? Well, if you feel bad when it happens to you, why would you want to inflict this kind of pain on others?

 

[9Westy9]

I get pleasure from not acting selfishly. So I'm selfless for partially selfish desires

 

[Gjallarhorn]

This is largely aimed at people who either don't believe in an afterlife or at least don't believe in punishment/reward in the afterlife.
If you only get one shot at life, why care what people think of you when you're gone? Leaving a legacy of peace and kindness won't mean a jot to you if you cease to exist and will ultimately be forgotten by either the passage of time or the inevitable apocalyptic demise of our species.
Why not devote your life to yourself? Why not be utterly ruthless in the pursuit of power and wealth, look out only for yourself and your loved ones and let all others be damned? Why not strike a balance between self preservation and satisfying your desires and leave any concept of morality out of the equation?
Why care about any concept of honesty, honour or decency if it's ultimately futile? With no threat of punishment, no promise of reward and no material gain or loss after death, why not be selfish?

How can anyone devote their life to anything but themselves? All willed actions are selfish. If being cruel made me happier than being kind, I would do it. Obviously this is not (entirely) the case.

For those wondering, this isn't a smug "I'm a theist and thus morally superior" argument. I do my best to live the lifestyle I described. I just honestly don't understand why anybody would follow conventional notions of morality and decency when there is ultimately nothing to be gained from it. I don't get why people feel they should be "good".

Endorphins, generally.

Oh one more thing, I can completely understand staying within the law so as to avoid punishment and I'm not suggesting being obnoxious to everybody you meet (which in my opinion is actually counterproductive). This is more along the lines of if you could steal money and not be caught, why wouldn't you do it? If you could backstab a co-worker to get a raise what's stopping you?

See above.

 

[Sunstone]

Selfishness in some cases can be self-defeating because we are social animals and we can and do sanction others for displaying great or inordinate selfishness. Thus, someone who takes selfishness to an extreme is somewhat likely to find themselves sanctioned.

 

[839311]

If being cruel made me happier than being kind, I would do it.

You can't be serious. So, regardless of the moral dimensions of your actions and thoughts, its actually your own happiness that is more important an indicator of whether or not you'll think and act a certain way? Sigh.

Obviously this is not (entirely) the case.

Not entirely?