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Why NOT Religion

joe1776

Well-Known Member
You are starting a few hundred thousand years too late. You need to go back to the dawn of man and start your history there.

No cities, no towns, just fragmented populations of small groups. This is the starting point.
Why? How would that affect the points I made about the benefits of cooperation?

Humans are violent and so our past is violent. Large scale wars require a degree of unity beyond the small groups we evolved to live in though....Religions were essential in getting us to the point where we could have large scale wars, as they were essential in building large scale societies.
The cooperative groups we call 'nations' included Christians who fought on one side and killed Christians who fought on the other in two world wars.

A few religions is a lot less divided than millions of little tribes and kinship groups.
However, within a nation of many tribes, religion was simply one more way to divide people.

And the reality is there is no such thing as humanity. Just diverse groups and people with differing and often conflicting interests.
Those conflicting interests are merely perceptions which can change but the fact that we humans are involved in a cooperative endeavor whether we like it or not is not merely a perception. It's the harsh reality.

The idea we are actually one singular group is a concept borrowed from monotheism. It was not something that was common in most traditional societies.
I can't imagine how you came up with that claim. It seems to me that's a basic notion that anyone with a philosophical outlook might come up with on their own.

If Tribe A and Tribe B had been fighting each other for generations they didn't think 'those Tribe B chaps are our brothers, we are the same species after all'. People share a 'common humanity' because they were created by the same God.
That sounds like one of the 3,254 ways they might have had the same thought.

Many people have so thoroughly internalised this concept of Humanity that they think it is self-evident and natural. There's nothing natural about it though, it's a product of man-made religion (in the West, generally Christianity).
You are making up your facts to support the conclusion you want.

Many people who think they have moved passed the irrationalities of religions get completely suckered into believing this fantasy. It is most irrational to be an atheist and believe that Humanity actually exists in any meaningful sense
The perception of Humanity has zero to do with religion. It relies purely on the observation that we humans are more alike than we are different and that our futures and our children's futures are connected. The world is not nearly as big as our forebears thought it was.
 
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QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Maybe it was for the reasons you stated that Mao Zedong, Mussolini, Joseph Stalin, et al did what they did.

It reminds me of another atheist, serial killerJeffrey Dahmer sentenced to 900 years in prison, who said “if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”.

“if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”.

I'm curious... do you agree with this quote? Is a fear of being accountable to a God the only reason you modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Wow.

Just... wow.

Here's my list of "why NOT religion" that certainly isn't a satire of the nonsense of the OP (and equally true):

  • Religion might cause you to ask questions about the meaning of your life, the universe and everything. It is ill-suited for anyone who is unprepared to use reason, logic, critical thinking, creativity, and emotion in their day to day lives.
  • Nearly all religions have nuanced and differing views on sex and sexuality. Therefore, if you are challenged by diversity of opinion, you should avoid actually studying religion at all costs.
  • Humans die all the time. In fact, all humans die. If you don't like thinking about death and dying, avoid religion. It will make you think about it and find positive ways of coping with the inevitable demise of yourself and everything you love.
  • Humans engage in body modification for a wide variety of reasons. If you are uncomfortable with this, you'd better avoid all religion entirely in spite of the fact that very few religious traditions actually practice this these days compared to the number of folks getting boob jobs and tummy tucks.
  • If you are already a devout worshiper of Science!™you need to avoid religion like the plague. The non-scientific interpretations of various phenomena that other cultures find meaningful and useful will have no such benefit for you.
  • If you are afraid of engaging in fellowship with people on the basis of shared culture, you should avoid having any culture (including religion) as much as possible. This will require you to live in total isolation from other humans.
  • If you are uncomfortable with sex education or using sex in religious ritual, definitely avoid religion. You can't chance running into one of the many religions that do this sort of thing, yeah?
  • If you are uncomfortable with women being powerful and respected, stay away from religion. There's just too many of them that worship goddesses, revere motherhood, and respect women's right to choose.
  • If you hate art, religion is art hardcore. Creative expression has been grounded in religion throughout human history and arguably was the initial impetus behind the entire field. Even if it wasn't, art is everywhere in religion. Art haters beware!
  • If you hate fiction and stories in general, avoid religion. And probably all human culture just in general. There's a chance you might be offended by a certain story, even if there's at least an equal chance of finding ones you love. Better to jsut avoid it all.
  • If you can't stand receiving help after suffering from a natural disaster, avoid religion. A lot of those dumb religious people help those who have been impacted by these, and they should all just shut up and leave you alone in your misery.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
You said that if you stopped believing in God, you'd go back to abortion on demand. Doesn't that mean your belief in God is the only factor currently preventing you from supporting abortion on demand? If you had any other reasons, loosing faith in God alone wouldn't shift your position.

They're not related to simply believing in the existence of a god but to a specific religion. Someone could believe in God but not those commandments. Someone could also choose to follow them as personal principles without any reference to God.

No, theism is a position of faith. Religion is a set of beliefs and practices, which may or may not include the existence of one or more gods.

Again, the OP is asking about specific religious opinions and ideas, not the belief in the existence of a god.
I think we are loosing the thread we were talking about.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
“if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”.

I'm curious... do you agree with this quote? Is a fear of being accountable to a God the only reason you modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?
That was an atheistic statement.

I modified my behavior because His Holy Spirit changed me.
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
Since the question "why religion" has been asked, I think it not inappropriate to begin a thread of my own, suggesting some (perhaps many, who knows how long I'll continue) some of the reasons that I sincerely do not like religion, and give others the chance to say why they do not.

Please feel free to tell me when you think I'm dead wrong, but ONLY if you are prepared to back up your criticism with a fact-based argument.

So, here are a few of my arguments, just to get things going:

  • The discouragement of rational, critical thought. Christianity in particular discourages critical thinking. In essence, it makes people less intelligent by telling them that faith is just as good, or better, than arriving at a conclusion through deductive reasoning and evidence
  • Nearly all religions treat homosexuality, a natural variation in orientation, as sinful and anathema, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide … I can give evidence of all of these
  • People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality, and also dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help. Other deaths have been caused by people being choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
  • Genital mutilation of babies or (worse) youths (male and female) for nothing but religious reasons
  • Genuine psychological conditions not being properly treated, because they're blamed on "demons," resulting in avoidance of proper medical care
  • Otherwise good people disowning their own families, or disfellowshipping or shunning members of their own communities over differences in religious opinion.
  • Insistence on “Abstinence-only” sex education, which cause far more STDs and unwed pregnancies than necessary...and often resulting in soul-destroying shot-gun marriages
  • Forcing women into life-threatening abortions by refusing to allow therapeutic abortions when they are genuinely appropriate, and the best solution in the circumstances
  • Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings
  • The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, e.g. Bamiyan Buddha's
  • Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion
  • Natural disasters and other tragedies being used to claim God is displeased with something or other, thus encouraging people to seek out that "something or other" and whack it (see Pat Robertson on Hurricane Katrina)
That will do to be going on with. I've lots and lots more, but I'll bet others can contribute to the list.
I don't like religion because it doesn't encourage people to seek deeper meanings of spirituality,through other methods like meditating,yoga,astral projection,automatic writing and divination and etc.feeding people with the fact it's of the devils workings.why wouldn't you have a open mind to these things if it's a way to communicate with the spiritual realm and the Divine and can bring someone peace and happiness and enjoyment of life?
I don't like religion because they expect you to do and act according to certain rules of that denomination,and if you don't you are considered as sinning,or coming short of the glory of God.
I ;don't like religion because of the dogmas they teach and preach on.
I don't like religion because most of the time that denomination feels it is the one that is right, and they talk bad about other religions that do not believe as they do.
I don't like religion because they believe the bible is written in stone and the only way to heaven it to follow it,worship it,obey it, and if you don't you will not make it to heaven.when they can't give you proof of what it says is even true.
I don't like religion because they teach we are born in sin, and we are not perfect we are flawed because of sin.
I don't like religion because we are taught to fear God"our Creator' and that God punishes people who do wrong or not work in the path that is being taught. That he puts you through trails and tribulations to prove he is God when you come out of them.
I don't like religion because they judge people who don't agree with them or life differently then they do.
I don't like religion because some teach that homosexuals are going straight to hell,or people who commit suicide will go to hell God.
I don't like religion because they teach certain things God will not forgive.That they scare you so you feel if you mess up you are such a bad person and not worthy of God's love.
I don't like religion because they make you feel like you have to give something like" tithes" or "seed offering" to receive your blessings here on earth.
some religions worship the pastor as if he's God.
I don't like religions because it's a form of controlling individuals,some even brainwashed.
I don't like religions because they teach that there is something wrong with you that you need to be baptized and saved in order to be connected to God,or make it to Heaven,or receive blessings in life.
I don't like religion because they feel God is high and you are beneath him,that you and God are not equal.
I don't like religion because they consider religions such as Hinduism and Judaism,Wicca,Muslims and etc. are all wrong in what they believe in and worship when they don't really understand or try to study and learn what it's all about before judging them.
That you should not mingle and associate with people of different walks of life,because you are a Christian.(to good for non worshipers)
that all worldly acts are sinful in nature, like going to a club,drinking beers,smoking cigarettes,dancing,listening to some music,sex without being married and etc.
hope I repeat myself, I apologize if I did.
 
Why? How would that affect the points I made about the benefits of cooperation?

Large groups only work with sufficient technological advancement.

can't imagine how you came up with that claim. It seems to me that's a basic notion that anyone with a philosophical outlook might come up with on their own.

Yet it was very rare. Same with many things you have internalised as "obvious" because of your cultural conditioning.

However, within a nation of many tribes, religion was simply one more way to divide people.

You really haven't thought this through have you?

Like I said start at the beginning when we lived in small groups like chimps do today.

This is an ultra divided species. Now plot a course to the modern day.

At what point does religion start dividing more than this initial point? (hint: never)
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Wow.

Just... wow.

Here's my list of "why NOT religion" that certainly isn't a satire of the nonsense of the OP (and equally true):

  • Religion might cause you to ask questions about the meaning of your life, the universe and everything. It is ill-suited for anyone who is unprepared to use reason, logic, critical thinking, creativity, and emotion in their day to day lives.
  • Nearly all religions have nuanced and differing views on sex and sexuality. Therefore, if you are challenged by diversity of opinion, you should avoid actually studying religion at all costs.
  • Humans die all the time. In fact, all humans die. If you don't like thinking about death and dying, avoid religion. It will make you think about it and find positive ways of coping with the inevitable demise of yourself and everything you love.
  • Humans engage in body modification for a wide variety of reasons. If you are uncomfortable with this, you'd better avoid all religion entirely in spite of the fact that very few religious traditions actually practice this these days compared to the number of folks getting boob jobs and tummy tucks.
  • If you are already a devout worshiper of Science!™you need to avoid religion like the plague. The non-scientific interpretations of various phenomena that other cultures find meaningful and useful will have no such benefit for you.
  • If you are afraid of engaging in fellowship with people on the basis of shared culture, you should avoid having any culture (including religion) as much as possible. This will require you to live in total isolation from other humans.
  • If you are uncomfortable with sex education or using sex in religious ritual, definitely avoid religion. You can't chance running into one of the many religions that do this sort of thing, yeah?
  • If you are uncomfortable with women being powerful and respected, stay away from religion. There's just too many of them that worship goddesses, revere motherhood, and respect women's right to choose.
  • If you hate art, religion is art hardcore. Creative expression has been grounded in religion throughout human history and arguably was the initial impetus behind the entire field. Even if it wasn't, art is everywhere in religion. Art haters beware!
  • If you hate fiction and stories in general, avoid religion. And probably all human culture just in general. There's a chance you might be offended by a certain story, even if there's at least an equal chance of finding ones you love. Better to jsut avoid it all.
  • If you can't stand receiving help after suffering from a natural disaster, avoid religion. A lot of those dumb religious people help those who have been impacted by these, and they should all just shut up and leave you alone in your misery.
WOW! Well done!
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
That was an atheistic statement.

I modified my behavior because His Holy Spirit changed me.

Eh, it may have been a statement that was made by an atheist, but it certainly isn't an atheistic statement. In fact it's a statement that I have heard numerous Christians make.

So, prior to this Holy Spirit changing you, you made no effort in your life to modify your behavior to act within acceptable ranges? Were you like permanently grounded as a child and then in and out of prison after that?
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
...At what point does religion start dividing more than this initial point? (hint: never)
Let's of back to the beginning and label one small group the Irish and their neighbor we'll label the English.

Now, let's also divide them into Catholic and Protestant groups. Now we can have wars between Irish Protestant and Irish Catholics, The English Protestants against the English Catholics, or we can pit Irish and English Catholics against Irish and English Protestants or we can have a war between the Irish and English not involving religion.

So, you're saying that religion hasn't been a divisive force?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Eh, it may have been a statement that was made by an atheist, but it certainly isn't an atheistic statement. In fact it's a statement that I have heard numerous Christians make.
It is a very logical position for if there is no God then man makes the parameters. So it stands. We may not like his position or agree with the lines that he made, but he became his own god and determined for himself what was right and what was wrong

So, prior to this Holy Spirit changing you, you made no effort in your life to modify your behavior to act within acceptable ranges? Were you like permanently grounded as a child and then in and out of prison after that?

Some things are so out there and far away from what was said, what was declared, that no answer is necessary. You could answer these questions yourself by going to the answer above.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
It is a very logical position for if there is no God then man makes the parameters. So it stands. We may not like his position or agree with the lines that he made, but he became his own god and determined for himself what was right and what was wrong



Some things are so out there and far away from what was said, what was declared, that no answer is necessary. You could answer these questions yourself by going to the answer above.

It is a very logical position for if there is no God then man makes the parameters. So it stands. We may not like his position or agree with the lines that he made, but he became his own god and determined for himself what was right and what was wrong

Yes, human being do make the parameters. And for the most part we are quite capable of creating a sound system of morals without the intervention of some imaginary God. In fact, human beings appear to be able to establish a far more moral society than the one that God advocates for in the bible.

Some things are so out there and far away from what was said, what was declared, that no answer is necessary. You could answer these questions yourself by going to the answer above.

Is there some reason why you can't provide a simple yes or no answer to basic questions? Sadly the 'answer above' does NOTHING to answer the question of whether or not you spent your childhood grounded or parts of your adult life in jail. It shouldn't be that difficult to do.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
It is a very logical position for if there is no God then man makes the parameters. So it stands. We may not like his position or agree with the lines that he made, but he became his own god and determined for himself what was right and what was wrong

Yes, human being do make the parameters. And for the most part we are quite capable of creating a sound system of morals without the intervention of some imaginary God. In fact, human beings appear to be able to establish a far more moral society than the one that God advocates for in the bible.

Yes, they can create a system. Flawed but a system. Whether moral (such as abortion), it will always be debatable whether it is or isn't.

Some things are so out there and far away from what was said, what was declared, that no answer is necessary. You could answer these questions yourself by going to the answer above.

Is there some reason why you can't provide a simple yes or no answer to basic questions? Sadly the 'answer above' does NOTHING to answer the question of whether or not you spent your childhood grounded or parts of your adult life in jail. It shouldn't be that difficult to do.

When you ask a good question, I'll be happy to spend some time.

"So, prior to this Holy Spirit changing you, you made no effort in your life to modify your behavior to act within acceptable ranges? Were you like permanently grounded as a child and then in and out of prison after that?"

Are hardly good questions.

And just "what" is "acceptable"?
 
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QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Yes, they can create a system. Flawed but a system. Whether moral (such as abortion), it will always be debatable whether it is or isn't.



When you ask a good question, I'll be happy to spend some time.

"So, prior to this Holy Spirit changing you, you made no effort in your life to modify your behavior to act within acceptable ranges? Were you like permanently grounded as a child and then in and out of prison after that?"

Are hardly good questions.

Yes, they can create a system. Flawed but a system. Whether moral (such as abortion), it will always be debatable whether it is or isn't.

True, we have yet to devise a perfectly moral system... though it's FAR more moral that the system depicted in the bible. The bible says nothing about abortion being immoral, though it does condone slavery, a horrible immoral practice that as a secular society we soundly reject.

When you ask a good question, I'll be happy to spend some time.

It's a perfectly logical question to ask. IF as you claim the only reason that you modified your behavior so that you behaved within acceptable ranges, that suggests that PRIOR to your experience with the holy spirit that you did NOT modify your behavior so that you behaved acceptably. Someone who refuses to modify their behavior so that it is acceptable USUALLY end up always in trouble (grounded) as a child and often spends time in jail as adults.

Seems like a perfectly 'good' question to me, one that you should be able to answer with ease. Yet for some reason you keep avoiding it and acting as if it's an absurd thing to ask. Seems rather bizarre to me.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Here's my list of "why NOT religion" that certainly isn't a satire of the nonsense of the OP (and equally true):
  • Religion might cause you to ask questions about the meaning of your life, the universe and everything. It is ill-suited for anyone who is unprepared to use reason, logic, critical thinking, creativity, and emotion in their day to day lives.
Simple curiosity, or an intellectual desire to know and understand new things can lead to those very same questions, and in fact, do far more often than religion, which always assumes it already knows the answers. And let's be honest here, when you already know all the answers, what need is there for reason, logic, critical thinking, creativity, etc.?

Nearly all religions have nuanced and differing views on sex and sexuality. Therefore, if you are challenged by diversity of opinion, you should avoid actually studying religion at all costs.
But what do the "nuanced and differing views on sex and sexuality" held by "nearly all religions" have to do with anything? Sex and sexuality are not religious expressions. Almost never done in church any more, so I understand.
Humans die all the time. In fact, all humans die. If you don't like thinking about death and dying, avoid religion. It will make you think about it and find positive ways of coping with the inevitable demise of yourself and everything you love.
And do you suspect that those without religion are unaware that we all die, or that we don't think about it? Trust me, we do, but the difference is that, rather than carry on doing whatever we're doing now while hoping for something better after, we understand dying to mean an end, and that leads us to think about NOW, and about LIFE, and about how it should be LIVED when it's all you've got.
Humans engage in body modification for a wide variety of reasons. If you are uncomfortable with this, you'd better avoid all religion entirely in spite of the fact that very few religious traditions actually practice this these days compared to the number of folks getting boob jobs and tummy tucks.
The point, however, is that no religion proposes body art and tummy tucks, but ever since Abraham (then Moses, with a little help from the wife) redesigned his own manhood as a "sign of the covenant," several religions, comprising a very large portion of humanity, have been doing it. And some have gone on to suppose if it's good enough for the boys, then why not the girls. Barbarism is as barbarism does.
If you are already a devout worshiper of Science!™you need to avoid religion like the plague. The non-scientific interpretations of various phenomena that other cultures find meaningful and useful will have no such benefit for you.
A challenge for you: tell me one "non-scientific interpretation" of an actual phenomenon that is more generally useful...and correct...than a scientific one. I do not mean, of course, some supposed miracle or other which has never been demonstrated to have happened, and cannot be reproduced, because that cannot accurately be considered an "actual phenomenon."
If you are afraid of engaging in fellowship with people on the basis of shared culture, you should avoid having any culture (including religion) as much as possible. This will require you to live in total isolation from other humans.
Even you must see that this is ridiculous. Culture consists of a great deal more than shared religious belief, though of course that's a part of it. Culture, in a very gross oversimplification, is the stories we tell ourselves that allow us to see ourselves as connected. And there are a great many stories that don't require magic and nonsense that can do the job.
If you are uncomfortable with sex education or using sex in religious ritual, definitely avoid religion. You can't chance running into one of the many religions that do this sort of thing, yeah?
Nor can you easily avoid the religions that try to make sex (and sex education) into some great and potentially evil mystery that would probably be better avoided anyway (see Saul of Tarsus aka Paul).
If you are uncomfortable with women being powerful and respected, stay away from religion. There's just too many of them that worship goddesses, revere motherhood, and respect women's right to choose.
Name one, existing today, that does all of that. Provide evidence. And ask @Ken, who cheered your post, if he agrees on a woman’s right to choose.
If you hate art, religion is art hardcore. Creative expression has been grounded in religion throughout human history and arguably was the initial impetus behind the entire field. Even if it wasn't, art is everywhere in religion. Art haters beware!
Total rubbish! I spend a great deal of my life in art galleries, in theatres, in museums and concert halls. I revere art, which, as I pointed out earlier, is just a part of how we shape the stories that unite us. And while there is admittedly a great deal of art with religious themes, there is also a great deal without. And as religion is being more and more questioned, the latter is catching up. The only reason that there's so bloody much religious are is because in a religious age, that's all the church (which had a big say, and paid for a lot of it) would accept.
If you hate fiction and stories in general, avoid religion. And probably all human culture just in general. There's a chance you might be offended by a certain story, even if there's at least an equal chance of finding ones you love. Better to jsut avoid it all.
Yes, we've been through this. I might mention that there are a great manyh stories and fiction that do not concern themselves with religion. Although, if you're not much of a reader, you may never have noticed.
If you can't stand receiving help after suffering from a natural disaster, avoid religion. A lot of those dumb religious people help those who have been impacted by these, and they should all just shut up and leave you alone in your misery.

Now you are just being silly. May I remind you that Doctors Without Borders carry no sacred texts with them as they do their thankless work all around the word. May I also mention that Mother Teresa and the Sisters of Charity refused pain medication or even actual treatment for dying people, because they thought their suffering to be a "gift to God." You want suffering and misery, they gave it to you wholesale. And don't even get me started on all the missionaries who went around the world and decimated (in what can only be considered genocide in some places) whole cultures, all in the name of bringing them a "god" who never actually thought of coming to them himself! Is there anything more wicked than that, I wonder?
 

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
Since the question "why religion" has been asked, I think it not inappropriate to begin a thread of my own, suggesting some (perhaps many, who knows how long I'll continue) some of the reasons that I sincerely do not like religion, and give others the chance to say why they do not.

Please feel free to tell me when you think I'm dead wrong, but ONLY if you are prepared to back up your criticism with a fact-based argument.

So, here are a few of my arguments, just to get things going:

  • The discouragement of rational, critical thought. Christianity in particular discourages critical thinking. In essence, it makes people less intelligent by telling them that faith is just as good, or better, than arriving at a conclusion through deductive reasoning and evidence
  • Nearly all religions treat homosexuality, a natural variation in orientation, as sinful and anathema, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide … I can give evidence of all of these
  • People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality, and also dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help. Other deaths have been caused by people being choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
  • Genital mutilation of babies or (worse) youths (male and female) for nothing but religious reasons
  • Genuine psychological conditions not being properly treated, because they're blamed on "demons," resulting in avoidance of proper medical care
  • Otherwise good people disowning their own families, or disfellowshipping or shunning members of their own communities over differences in religious opinion.
  • Insistence on “Abstinence-only” sex education, which cause far more STDs and unwed pregnancies than necessary...and often resulting in soul-destroying shot-gun marriages
  • Forcing women into life-threatening abortions by refusing to allow therapeutic abortions when they are genuinely appropriate, and the best solution in the circumstances
  • Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings
  • The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, e.g. Bamiyan Buddha's
  • Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion
  • Natural disasters and other tragedies being used to claim God is displeased with something or other, thus encouraging people to seek out that "something or other" and whack it (see Pat Robertson on Hurricane Katrina)
That will do to be going on with. I've lots and lots more, but I'll bet others can contribute to the list.



On Atheism-

1. Abiogenesis is true.
2. Pre-Biotic Evolution is true.
3. It's fine to murder babies.
4. Morality does not exist.
5. Nothing should stop gays from marrying their boy lovers.

Therefore, these feel that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything, and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself into self-replicating bits which then magically came to life.

Therefore, we are merely concomitant nimieties of the natural world having developed fairly recently on a minute speck left high and dry somewhere in a dreary and meaningless universe, doomed to oblivion one by one and certainly collectively in a relatively not too distant future.

As a world-famous proponent of this philosophy candidly expressed-
"The greatest obstacle to my freedom, the greatest block and limitation to it, consists in the insupportable ‘value judgment’ that I was bound to respect the rights of others. I asked myself, who were these ‘others’? Other human beings, with human rights? Why is it more wrong to kill a human animal than any other animal, a pig or a sheep or a steer? Is your life more to you than a hog’s life to a hog? Why should I be willing to sacrifice my pleasure more for the one than for the other?

Surely, you would not, in this age of scientific enlightenment, declare that God or nature has marked some pleasures as ‘moral’ or ‘good’ and others as ‘immoral’ or ‘bad’? In any case, let me assure you, my dear young lady, that there is absolutely no comparison between the pleasure I might take in eating ham and the pleasure I anticipate in raping and murdering you. That is the honest conclusion to which my education has led me—after the most conscientious examination of my spontaneous and uninhibited self.”"
-Ted Bundy, paraphrased and rewritten by Harry V. Jaffa, Homosexuality and the National Law (Claremont Institute of the Study of Statesmanship and Political Philosophy, 1990), 3–4

As such, Atheism is a threat to all who love life and choose to live morally.

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Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Maybe it was for the reasons you stated that Mao Zedong, Mussolini, Joseph Stalin, et al did what they did.

It reminds me of another atheist, serial killerJeffrey Dahmer sentenced to 900 years in prison, who said “if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”.

Yeah, Damher should be your go-to for rational thought...........
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Sex and sexuality are not religious expressions.
Actually that is a massive lie, and I presume you know better than to say that.
Well, if it is, then you're going to have to admit two things:

1. Nearly every animal on this earth has religion, and
2. People without religion can't be having sex, or sexuality. Ask around, see we're doing...:rolleyes:
 
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