Why Paul but not Smith?

[Reverend Rick]

Do you think it has something to do with a warning by Jesus that there will be no more prophets after him?

Why would Paul ask us to wish for gifts from God and most of all Prophecy? 1 Corinthians 14-5 For greater is he that prophesieth.

But again, if that was true then Paul would be a false prophet, and if Jesus didn't make such a statement then why to put limit on God and let him only speak to those people in the past but not now? Did God disappear or something "God forbid"? or maybe there are no human being who are *good enough* to hold the message of God?

Who really decide that, and how do we know whether someone who claim to be a prophet--like Smith--is a true prophet or a false one?

I would say the test would be if the prophecy came true AND nothing went against what has already been taught to us.

 

[jonny]

Why do most of non-LDS Christians acknowledge Paul as someone who saw Jesus and have been ordered to spread the word of God but they don't accept Joseph Smith?

Probably because they don't agree with what Joseph Smith taught.

 

[TashaN]

Until now, i have no reason to believe that there is any difference between Paul and Smith. I still don't get it.

I was wondering why alot of people say that LDS are not Christians because they followed Smith but yet, those who say so turned their back for what Jesus taught and favored Paul's teachings over Jesus's just because they believe Jesus made some "corrections" through Paul. If he made this further revelation to Paul, so why not to Smith?

 

[joeboonda]

How can we answer this question without offending Mormons? I could give reasons why I believe Paul and not Smith, but it would only offend. So, I cannot help you here. You could Google it if you really want to research it.

 

[sojourner]

It has to do with acceptance of higher doctrines of salvation, which Joseph Smith has established, through revelations given to him by Jesus Christ.

Paul appeals to the most basic of Chistians, while Joseph Smith appeals to those who want more of Chist's teachings and doctrines of salvation...

There are different levels of Christianity...

This seems a little pompous. There are plenty of higher-thinking Christians who do not espouse Smithian theology. Smith is different, but not "higher" than other theologians.

 

[SoyLeche]

How can we answer this question without offending Mormons? I could give reasons why I believe Paul and not Smith, but it would only offend. So, I cannot help you here. You could Google it if you really want to research it.

If you can't explain what you want to say without being offensive then the problem is probably in your style. Give it a shot.

 

[sojourner]

Until now, i have no reason to believe that there is any difference between Paul and Smith. I still don't get it.

I was wondering why alot of people say that LDS are not Christians because they followed Smith but yet, those who say so turned their back for what Jesus taught and favored Paul's teachings over Jesus's just because they believe Jesus made some "corrections" through Paul. If he made this further revelation to Paul, so why not to Smith?

Paul was not a prophet. He was an apostle. Smith claimed to be a prophet.

Paul was clearly considered authoritative by the other apostles, and his writings have been canonized by the historic church. In Smith's case, that authority is not so clearly evident, and his writings have not been incorporated into the canon.

Additionally, Paul's teachings supported earlier and current teaching about Jesus. Smith's teachings, on the other hand, opposed earlier and current teaching.

 

[SoyLeche]

Paul was not a prophet. He was an apostle. Smith claimed to be a prophet.

Paul was clearly considered authoritative by the other apostles, and his writings have been canonized by the historic church. In Smith's case, that authority is not so clearly evident, and his writings have not been incorporated into the canon.

Additionally, Paul's teachings supported earlier and current teaching about Jesus. Smith's teachings, on the other hand, opposed earlier and current teaching.

See - not offensive. I guess it is possible at least

 

[sojourner]

That's not to say that Smith's writings are to be disregarded by Mormons. I'm not Mormon, so I draw the canonical line differently than y'all do. But I maintain that Mormons are Christian, if that's their claim.

I think, for me, the line that I draw is based upon the case I made above. Apostolic approval is extremely important for me. I just don't see that in Smith's case.

 

[TashaN]

Paul was not a prophet. He was an apostle. Smith claimed to be a prophet.

Paul was clearly considered authoritative by the other apostles, and his writings have been canonized by the historic church. In Smith's case, that authority is not so clearly evident, and his writings have not been incorporated into the canon.

Additionally, Paul's teachings supported earlier and current teaching about Jesus. Smith's teachings, on the other hand, opposed earlier and current teaching.

So it doesn't matter whether his book was divine or not as it matter whether people accepted him as an authorised or not by the church?

 

[joeboonda]

See - not offensive. I guess it is possible at least

Okay, what he said then.

 

[sojourner]

So it doesn't matter whether his book was divine or not as it matter whether people accepted him as an authorised or not by the church?

Correct, because, since he rejected the apostolic teaching as apostate, his word became the only true earthly authority, so what he said was sacred was...sacred.

 

[Polaris]

Correct, because, since he rejected the apostolic teaching as apostate, his word became the only true earthly authority, so what he said was sacred was...sacred.

You've peaked my curiosity now. What apostolic teachings did Joseph Smith reject as apostate?

 

[Quiddity]

You've peaked my curiosity now. What apostolic teachings did Joseph Smith reject as apostate?

-Trinity
-Doctrines concerning Mary

...the list goes on. But really, you only think it's apostate solely on the claims of JS.

This thread seems to be moving in the direction of debate. If it continues, we may just have to move it.

 

[Polaris]

Hi Victor.

-Trinity
-Doctrines concerning Mary

If this were a debate forum... I would argue that neither of those are Apostolic teachings. We don't believe that Apostolic teachings are apostate as was suggested in the post I responded to. We believe that the post-Apostolic church became apostate. There is a significant difference.

 

[madhatter85]

The LDS church does not rely on any man made statements regarding the Diety.

The Nicene Creed was written by the Nicene council shortly after emperor Constantine converted to christianity. He saw the Divisiveness among the clergy and in an attempt to unite them in beliefs. in the year 325. Each eminent divine stated his views and when a definition could not be reached a compromise was made. Hence the Nicene Creed, and it's basic elements are most of the christian faithful.

to date there are more than 20 Different versions of the Nicene Creed, more than 10 english translations, and more in different languages, with different meanings.

The LDS church does not aknowledge the Nicene creed as scripture and we do not use it in our beliefs because it was written by man as a compromise.

Every belief the LDS church has is backed by scripture, or divine revelation through God's prophet, Joseph Smith, and other prophets that followed.

It has been proven using computer technology and sections of the book of mormon and sections from the doctrine and covenants, that the sections where God is speaking, has a completely different structure than when Joseph Smith is speaking, or even when christ is speaking.

also in the book of mormon, they have been able to identify something close to 70 different writing patterns and styles. proving multiple authors

it was concluded that it was impossible for Joseph smith to have written the book of mormon himself.

The problem with other churches accepting this fact that the Book of Mormon is true scripture, is that it would make all other churches false. and no denomination wants to do that.

on a side note i thought was pretty interesting -
The LDS church is the wealthiest church on the planet per-capita. It is the most prosperous over the last 150 years, and it was promised to the righteous that
"And he hath said that: Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land; but inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall be cut off from my presence." - 2nd Nephi 1:20