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Why racism won't go away

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Most people in modern society agree that racism and racial discrimination are harmful and desire their elimination, although there is significant disagreement on how this is best achieved.

One tenet common in modern progressive politics relates to privileging certain identity markers above all others, key among these is the idea of race. Such a view has become so entrenched that even professing a desire to have a 'raceless' society is seen as offensive and racist.

I've heard this idea floated out there, that the prevailing wisdom these days is to oppose the idea of a colorblind, raceless society. This seems diametrically opposed to the idea of judging people "not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." It appears that many self-proclaimed anti-racists have done a complete 180° turn from what was popularly supported during the peak of the Civil Rights era. The entire movement and narrative shifted over the past decades.

One argument against identity politics is that by fetishising exclusive identity markers (race, gender, sexuality) above all others, you create divisions which act counter to the intent of a more inclusive society. Instead one should look for inclusive markers of identity that do not depend on an accident of birth.

The following article provides some support for this idea. The more race is used as a marker of identity (and thus form a basis for in/out groups) the more racism increases.

I think it's common sense. Our society still uses the same basic classifications related to these identity markers, and there are those who ostensibly have an interest in maintaining these classifications and the divisions they bring about.

I don't think anyone denies what has happened in this world, and in America in particular, racism was a significant part of our own underlying "identity" as a nation. Most people today recognize it as a monstrous and terrible wrong, a crime against humanity, and an atrocity which can never be forgotten. As you say, most people in modern society would like to see it eliminated.

But I also think that we should have a more objective and clear idea of where racism actually comes from and how it has manifested and continues to manifest itself in the present day. A lot of people seem to think that it's merely a matter of attacking the symbols, getting rid of Confederate flags and statues, and canceling anyone who says or does anything offensive or out of line - even if it means digging out decades-old high school yearbooks to find some public figure once dressed up in blackface. The idea is that they search far and wide to find anyone and everyone who might have said or done something racist, and then isolate them, expose them, shun them from polite society - and then, hopefully everything will turn out okay eventually.

I'm not sure if that approach has really been working. Nobody wants to be labeled a "racist," so it's not something that someone would consciously choose, would they? Do racists actually want to be racists, or have they been conditioned and brought up to think in such terms? Or is it something more sub-conscious? Or, if someone dresses up in blackface back in a time when they didn't think they were causing any real harm, does that put them in the same category as the KKK or the Nazi Party? Does that mean they're an evil person, completely irredeemable, and in a "basket of deplorables"?

There's a certain recklessness in that way of thinking that people should pause to consider.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Of course I would be spiritually wise enough to not place it on the child. Any initial disappointment would be towards my child and not my grandchild. Spirituality is my FIRST goal in life not my sane ethnic pride.
I hope so. I've been through this before with my mom's dad rejecting me. Oh, not explicitly but never placing a picture of me with all the other pictures of my (white) cousins on the mantle, never inviting us to family reunions or activities, treating me much worse than my cousins, who were destroying property and breaking into places, etc. all made his views of me quite clear. I was a shameful secret. I didn't even meet any extended relatives until I was at his funeral. Sad, because they seemed like nice people (whom I'll never see again).

No reason for such "disappointment". They're still just as genetically related to you.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I hope so. I've been through this before with my mom's dad rejecting me. Oh, not explicitly but never placing a picture of me with all the other pictures of my (white) cousins on the mantle, never inviting us to family reunions or activities, treating me much worse than my cousins, who were destroying property and breaking into places, etc. all made his views of me quite clear. I was a shameful secret. I didn't even meet any extended relatives until I was at his funeral. Sad, because they seemed like nice people (whom I'll never see again).

No reason for such "disappointment". They're still just as genetically related to you.
It would be a test of how big a person I was. I can only speculate that I would act in the most spiritual way towards the situation.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think Morgan is on the right track. People overly obsessed by race issues in twenty-first century America are only increasing racial tension.
How many times so far I quoted Morgan Freeman...

Nobody listens to God. Until now. :0]
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
I find it somewhat distressing that people are still blaming issues of racism on the victims of racism who bring it up in public discourse, and not on the people doing racist things day in, day out, as if mistreating and discriminating people based on the color of their skin was the most normal thing thinkable.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I find it somewhat distressing that people are still blaming issues of racism on the victims of racism who bring it up in public discourse, and not on the people doing racist things day in, day out, as if mistreating and discriminating people based on the color of their skin was the most normal thing thinkable.

I think there are many people who blame the individuals who do racist things day in and day out. But the key thing is that they blame the individuals for specific actions, as opposed to widening the blame to others who may not do those things. That's where it becomes problematic.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
I think there are many people who blame the individuals who do racist things day in and day out. But the key thing is that they blame the individuals for specific actions, as opposed to widening the blame to others who may not do those things. That's where it becomes problematic.
I'm not sure I'm parsing your argument correctly. Are you suggesting we blame racism on people who aren't racist?
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I don't know if racism will ever go away but I have recognised the changes over the decades, where as a youth I fell out with my father for his casual use of the n-word even though it might just have been quite common then for many (especially amongst one's workmates) - this in London when there were many immigrants to the UK from the West Indies, India, and Pakistan for example. Perhaps I noticed it more since in my group of friends was a dark-skinned boy from Aruba in South America, and who we all saw as one of us. Things have definitely improved since those days.

But it often seems to me that racism is now used as a trump card in many arguments - the recent Meghan and Harry interview comes to mind. :oops:
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
Modern 'anti-racist' ideology often posits that everyone is racist (or at least every white person), race is a key factor in every interaction, etc.
I've never heard of the term "anti-racist ideology" before except as an attempt to attack people speaking out against racist practices and discriminatio, nor have I heard or read anybody seriously advance the claim that "race is a key factor in every interaction" or that "everyone is racist" or even "every white person is racist".

Are you sure you're not simply argueing against a strawman?
 
I've never heard of the term "anti-racist ideology" before except as an attempt to attack people speaking out against racist practices and discriminatio, nor have I heard or read anybody seriously advance the claim that "race is a key factor in every interaction" or that "everyone is racist" or even "every white person is racist".

Ok, then maybe you are not that familiar with contemporary critical race theory (which is not a criticism, it's not really a valuable contribution to human culture that is worth your time :D)

Are you sure you're not simply argueing against a strawman?

Yes
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
Ok, then maybe you are not that familiar with contemporary critical race theory (which is not a criticism, it's not really a valuable contribution to human culture that is worth your time :D)
Could you perhaps cite any of the claims you made from a relevant contemporary work on critical race theory, or at least make a semi-reasonable argument for your reading being an accurate description of the theory's predominant analytical frameworks?
 
Could you perhaps cite any of the claims you made from a relevant contemporary work on critical race theory, or at least make a semi-reasonable argument for your reading being an accurate description of the theory's predominant analytical frameworks?

Kendi
DiAngelo

You can do the rest, or you can choose not to believe me. Either is fine with me.
 
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