Why Rich and Materialism Cannot Win

[The Dreamer]

I was replying in another topic and I think my answer deserved a topic on its own so I am writing here.

After I told someone life is like a dream then he/she told me that life is more like a nightmare. This was my answer:

But it isn't so for many people. Like some people live really good lives right? I know for a majority of people and (including me considering my past) life seems like a nightmare but still there is also a majority who lives god damn good lives. But either good or bad it is all like a dream, in the end even if you are poor or rich it is all like a dream and it is empty. Like the Buddhists say "the form is emptiness". It doesn't matter really. When we are suffering it all seems so real and awful but really it is all a dream and in the end it doesn't matter.

(In addition to my above reply)

I mean imagine being born to a super rich and powerful family. If it was all a materialistic universe that was that. You have born to a rich family and you have it all. All the happiness, all the freedom and all the other good things in life. The world was made for you to enjoy and for the poor to suffer. But even then despite all the richness and power it still doesn't fit. There is actually something reserved for the poor besides for the suffering and it is the emptiness of the form. It is all a dream after all and even you are rich you cannot rule supreme because you cannot rule emptiness

If I find your replies boring or I am busy I may not reply to your replies. Basically don't tell me that rich and materialism cannot win because of literally god's glory or something. Also because of lack of motherly love or affection or something like that. If you want to debate give me something better. You are also welcome to discuss.

 

[ChurchofDeanne]

I was replying in another topic and I think my answer deserved a topic on its own so I am writing here.

After I told someone life is like a dream then he/she told me that life is more like a nightmare. This was my answer:





If I find your replies boring or I am busy I may not reply to your replies. Basically don't tell me that rich and materialism cannot win because of literally god's glory or something. Also because of lack of motherly love or affection or something like that. If you want to debate give me something better. You are also welcome to di

I was replying in another topic and I think my answer deserved a topic on its own so I am writing here.

After I told someone life is like a dream then he/she told me that life is more like a nightmare. This was my answer:





If I find your replies boring or I am busy I may not reply to your replies. Basically don't tell me that rich and materialism cannot win because of literally god's glory or something. Also because of lack of motherly love or affection or something like that. If you want to debate give me something better. You are also welcome to discuss.

It's amazing how often our attitudes dictate the events in our lives. I would suggest that humility is a quality that can be fostered by the rich and poor alike, and this quality draws people to us. On the other hand, if we are insulting and confrontational, we will push people away. None of this has anything to do with our available financial resources, so much as our available social resources. This is why it is important to raise children properly, and work to help our fellows who are less fortunate then ourselves. There are worse things than being poor; among them I count being rude and argumentative.

 

[SalixIncendium]

There is an allegory I once heard from Swami Sarvapriyananda. I'm paraphrasing here from memory, so please forgive any variations to his narrative:

There was wise sage who traveled throughout many kingdoms. As he visited a particular kingdom, the sage, who was known of and revered by many, was approached the king himself. The king bowed before him and said, "Oh wise sage, my kingdom is in turmoil! My minister of coin has made poor financial decisions leaving the kingdom in financial ruins, my subjects would just as soon kill me, the king to the north, knowing the state of my kingdom, is advancing troops to take over my kingdom, and my defenses are practically non-exisitent!" The sage placed his hand on the king's head said to him, "Worry not, my king, as this, too, shall pass." With that, the sage travelled on.​

​

Years later, the sage came through the kingdom once again. The king, excited to see the sage, approached him and bowed before him once again. "Oh wise sage, you were right! Soon after you left, I was visited by the king of the kingdom to the east, who offered support in defending my kingdom against king to the north. Together, we advanced on the northern kingdom and drove out the king that would have taken over my own kingdom. We split the kingdom and the riches, and I took on that king's minister of coin, who has made some excellent financial decisions and brought wealth once again to my kingdom and my subjects! My subjects love me, and my kingdom is safer and more secure than ever!" The sage smiled and placed his hand on the kings head and said, "My king, this, too, shall pass."​

As I see it, everything in this perceived reality is temporary. Attachment to material things is an exercise in futility, as these things are fleeting. True bliss lies in the realization of one's true nature...the witness...that immutable observer that is unaffected by riches or lack thereof or anything else that occurs in this reality. That thou art (tat tvam asi).

 

[Revoltingest]

It's not a competition for me.
Wealth & materialism are simply enjoyable.
I'll leave winning to those who feel the need.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Wealth & materialism are simply enjoyable.

Do you want to have a contest to see who can enjoy it more?

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you want to have a contest to see who can enjoy it more?

Have you mistaken me for someone who is not lazy?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Have you mistake me for someone who is not lazy?

My old advisor told me that laziness is the mother of invention.

 

[Revoltingest]

My old advisor told me that laziness is the mother of invention.

My old adviser could never muster the energy to tell me anything.

 

[The Dreamer]

It's not a competition for me.
Wealth & materialism are simply enjoyable.
I'll leave winning to those who feel the need.

You may seem to enjoy it but you are creating karma for yourself by getting lost deeper into the illusion. This will cause suffering. Karma isn't like sin so you aren't getting punished. It is more like the result of an error. You are unable to see the Glory of the God. Again God here isn't an angry man in the sky like the layman's interpretation of Abrahamic religions. The God is the consciousness.

 

[osgart]

Win at the expense of who or what?

What does it mean to win?

There's the worker and his overseers. The overseers get wealthier, and the workers get workier. People are not widgets; they are not economic units. They are not parts in a machine.

Neverending growth will destroy us all.

So the poor increase and fall behind in the rat race. Complexity kills as well. Competition without rules and a proper place kills as well.

Who's big picture wins out?

 

[Revoltingest]

You may seem to enjoy it but you are creating karma for yourself by getting lost deeper into the illusion.

Why do you say it's an illusion?
How is karma not an illusion?

This will cause suffering.

Everyone causes some suffering.
So it's moot claim.

Karma isn't like sin so you aren't getting punished.

I expect no punishment.

It is more like the result of an error. You are unable to see the Glory of the God. Again God here isn't an angry man in the sky like the layman's interpretation of Abrahamic religions. The God is the consciousness.

Are you able to see the glory of Santa Claus?

 

[libre]

In my view, a philosophically materialist perspective has made me more concerned with the relationships between people and things and much less interested with accumulation and those things in themselves.

I don't think one needs a spiritual viewpoint to find meaning outside of the gathering of possessions and accumulation of capital or influence.

 

[Secret Chief]

My old advisor told me that laziness is the mother of invention.

Laziness is just the word jealous people use for efficiency

 

[Revoltingest]

Laziness is just the word jealous people use for efficiency

Laziness inspires me to create efficiency,
all without jealousy.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Laziness is just the word jealous people use for efficiency

I know. Those people are just jealous of my efficiency.

 

[Secret Chief]

Laziness inspires me to create efficiency,
all without jealousy.

You tell yourself that.

 

[Revoltingest]

You tell yourself that.

No, I told you that.

For example, when moving machinery, it's much
work to take equipment out of Mr Van. Now I've
arranged things to enable carrying more of it on
Mr Trailer. Laziness --> Innovation

 

[The Dreamer]

Why do you say it's an illusion?
How is karma not an illusion?

Everyone causes some suffering.
So it's moot claim.

I expect no punishment.

Are you able to see the glory of Santa Claus?

It is illusion because the existence is a dream that is created by the God=Consciousness=Source. Again I am not talking about an angry man in the sky. God isn't an external thing like Santa Claus. It is your consciousness so it is you.

God created man in his own image

We are creating/dreaming the universe within our consciousness but we have forgotten our true nature and now we are suffering (the Original Sin). In a way we got trapped in our own monstrous creation away from the God's glory.

I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me

Now things may be going well in one's life and when that happens one tends to think itself as strong and as some kind of genius but think about dying and getting reincarnated as a disabled person.

Indeed, those who have denied Our signs—We will roast them in a fire. Every time their skins are roasted through, We will replace them with other skins so that they may(continue to) taste the punishment.

So in order to end suffering we have to connect with the source again. Although on the surface enjoying the material world is considered "healthy" if you got lost in the illusion you will get devoured by it.

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned

 

[Samael_Khan]

Wealth a

I was replying in another topic and I think my answer deserved a topic on its own so I am writing here.

After I told someone life is like a dream then he/she told me that life is more like a nightmare. This was my answer:





If I find your replies boring or I am busy I may not reply to your replies. Basically don't tell me that rich and materialism cannot win because of literally god's glory or something. Also because of lack of motherly love or affection or something like that. If you want to debate give me something better. You are also welcome to

Wealth and materialism cannot win because wealth is gained by stepping over others and being apathetic to the poor who suffer. Eventually those at the bottoms grievances will explode like a powder keg and they will strip you of your wealth and potentially your life. And then the cycle will continue with them on top and karma kicking them in the butt. We are the pigs of animal farm.

I think the Tao te Ching lays foundation for a balanced life though. But it isnt materialistic.

 

[PureX]

These are questions that only people who already have what they need to live can entertain.

Only hypocrisy can result.