Why should a Christian even look into Islam as a Possible true Faith?

[Link]

How?

It would be easier for the whole world to accept the truth if all scriptures were safeguarded. You first said they were, now, you are making excuses as to why they not all are and trying to special plead the Bible.

The only book that needs to be safeguarded is the Gospel not the whole Bible per your standards now. And to large extent it was and its interpretation problem.

The Quran says to believe in the book revealed before it, which is the Gospels. It didn't say all the books revealed claimed to be revealed from Musa and onwards.

 

[Link]

Where is Yahya's (a) book? The book attributed to him shows the world is created by an evil being and that God is not the creator of the universe. It's the basis of Gnosticism. Do you believe that book is safeguarded?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It would be easier for the whole world to accept the truth if all scriptures were safeguarded. You first said they were, now, you are making excuses as to why they not all are and trying to special plead the Bible.

The only book that needs to be safeguarded is the Gospel not the whole Bible per your standards now. And to large extent it was and its interpretation problem.

The Quran says to believe in the book revealed before it, which is the Gospels. It didn't say all the books revealed claimed to be revealed from Musa and onwards.

You did not read my whole post. That is not what I said.

 

[Link]

You did not read my whole post. That is not what I said.

So Ibrahim's (a) book needed to be safeguarded till Musa (a). So why couldn't Isa (a) book only be safeguarded till appearance of Mohammad (s) if for every period there is a book?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Where is Yahya's (a) book? The book attributed to him shows the world is created by an evil being and that God is not the creator of the universe. It's the basis of Gnosticism. Do you believe that book is safeguarded?

To each Age is a Book revealed (Quran 13:38)

For the Period between Moses and Jesus, it was Torah.

For the Peiod between Jesus and Mouhammad, it is the Gospel.

For the period between Muhammad and the Qaim, Quran.

 

[Link]

What about scripture of Dawood (a)? He was revealed scripture per Quran. It seems there is more then one book per time.

 

[Dao Hao Now]

As an outsider, are you looking from outside your perspective?

Where you say “as an outsider”….what do you mean?

are you looking from outside your perspective? Why is your perspective any more relevant than mine?

I make it a habit to look at things from as many perspectives as possible.
Whether your or my perspective is any more relevant would be dependent on the subject being discussed.
You apparently missed the point.
The OP suggested viewing things from a perspective other than that which you generally view things.
a.k.a. “the outsiders test of faith”

I did not sat that they are false. I said I believe they are not fully accurate.

Semantics

I don't post them because I think they are influential. I only post them to convey what I believe.
Why do Christians and Muslims post their scriptures?

Are your own words not sufficient?
As to others posting scriptures…..
That’s kind of my point.
It appears they are often posted as authoritative references which can’t be refuted……
Do they have that effect on you?
They certainly don’t on me.
I see them as a dependency to prevent individual thought.

There is no objective evidence that proves that any religion is true.

Nor is there objective evidence that so much as indicates that they may be be true, let alone prove.

I save what I write in Word documents if I think I will use it later.

That explains the deja vu.

I did not choose to ignore that, it just was not pertinent to what I was talking about when contrasting objective and subjective evidence.
There is more than one definition of objective evidence so my definition was valid.

This is a textbook example of confirmation bias.
Since you have obviously not come to recognize yours since we had the conversation you pulled it from, I see no point in re-hashing it further.

 

[Nakosis]

Islam is one thing, and Quran another thing. This thread is about, "how to get from the Bibe to Quran". It is about the proper understanding rather than just blindly imitating. There is a difference if one accepts Quran, just because they were born in a Muslim family, than, if the person actually investigated and has come to a fair conclusion for himself "unbiased"

So, their belief about scripture is wrong and your belief is right.
Folks should all listen to you so you can teach them the proper understanding, that is what this thread is about?

Well, I've heard it dozens of times before from folks all certain that they have the correct understanding of scripture.
I'm sure it all now makes sense to you but it all made sense to them as well. That is how the brain works. It'll find a way to fit all of the pieces together for you.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So Ibrahim's (a) book needed to be safeguarded till Musa (a). So why couldn't Isa (a) book only be safeguarded till appearance of Mohammad (s) if for every period there is a book?

Book of Abraham needed to be safeguarded upto the time, Ummah of Abraham existed, so, the followers of Abraham were able to be guided to Moses, through Abraham's Prophecies.

One cannot say, for example, Jesus Book is enough to be survived uptil Muhammad for two reasons:

1. For as long as there are Christians, the Bible in needed, so, they can be guided to the Quran.

2. I quote Baha'u'llah:

"Can a man who believeth in a book, and deemeth it to be inspired by God, mutilate it? Moreover, the Pentateuch had been spread over the surface of the earth, and was not confined to Mecca and Medina, so that they could privily corrupt and pervert its text." Iqan


Notice that, by the time Muhammad came, the Bible of Christians and Jews were spread over the surface of earth already. It was not only few limited copies that anyone can go and change those few. No one could have changed all of them, and make all of them the same, in every city and country around the world.

 

[Link]

Book of Abraham needed to be safeguarded upto the time, Ummah of Abraham existed, so, the followers of Abraham were able to be guided to Moses, through Abraham's Prophecies.

One cannot say, for example, Jesus Book is enough to be survived uptil Muhammad for two reasons:

1. For as long as there are Christians, the Bible in needed, so, they can be guided to the Quran.

2. I quote Baha'u'llah:

"Can a man who believeth in a book, and deemeth it to be inspired by God, mutilate it? Moreover, the Pentateuch had been spread over the surface of the earth, and was not confined to Mecca and Medina, so that they could privily corrupt and pervert its text." Iqan


Notice that, by the time Muhammad came, the Bible of Christians and Jews were spread over the surface of earth already. It was not only few limit copies that anyone can go and change all of them, and make all of them the same, in every city and country around the world.

It could've been the true Gospels were spread, but after Islam, they were lost. There's nothing to suggest otherwise. You don't know enough about how books become popular or safeguarded or what texts become common place due to empires and which books are less popular. You are not expert in these things and I don't care for your opinion on it. Something to note is Quran confirms the baby talking of Isa (a) which is only found in infancy Gospels, not in the common Gospels accepted by Christians today.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It could've been the true Gospels were spread, but after Islam, they were lost.

This idea has no scholarly basis. It is as if someone claims that, now, somehow, in our time, the true Quran becomes lost, and instead a false or distorted version comes. Impossible.

There's nothing to suggest otherwise. You don't know enough about how books become popular or safeguarded or what texts become common place due to empires and which books are less popular. You are not expert in these things and I don't care for your opinion on it. Something to note is Quran confirms the baby talking of Isa (a) which is only found in infancy Gospels, not in the common Gospels accepted by Christians today.

Upto you. Keep your beliefs then.

I answed you questions. But you did not answer my questions I asked in the first place.
How could God, who cared so much about Quran, and had said, He would kill Muhammad, if He adds anything to Quran, allow the verses of the Bible that were to guide Christians and Jewe to Quran to be distorted, so much that, now, it is very very difficult for them to be guided to the Quran.
Was God incapable? Was God careless?

Why you dont want to say that, God in the same way that in Quran prophecied about 12 Imams, and that Qaim comes, yet the Sunnis, do not see it, likewise, the Bible prophecied about Muhammad, but Jews and Christians do not see it.
I know why. Because then you will have to admit that Bahai faith is right. It is very much against your feeling

 

[Link]

I know why. Because then you will have to admit that Bahai faith is right. It is very much against your feeling

How would that prove your faith right? Say it's true.

The Quran says Mohammad is the final Prophet, and your Prophet says it means he is the future final Prophet in the same way he is Adam (a). This going to somehow prove what your Prophet says is correct about that verse?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How would that prove your faith right? Say it's true.

The Quran says Mohammad is the final Prophet, and your Prophet says it means he is the future final Prophet in the same way he is Adam (a). This going to somehow prove what your Prophet says is correct about that verse?

Using a Metephor this can be explained.

When leaving primary school my grade 6 teacher is last teacher for an age of primary school learning.

When the age of higher learning commences, there are new teachers.

All the Messengers up to and Including Muhammad could only offer primary school lessons. The Holy Books support this and religious traditions also support this.

"Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) said: “Knowledge and learning are twenty seven letters, and everything that the prophets have brought is only two letters; so, now, the people are unaware (of these letters) except (juz’an) these two. When our Qa’im rises up, he will bring out the other twenty five letters, spreading and extending them among the people. He will also attach the two letters and a total of twenty seven letters will be distributed among the people.” (Khara’ij, vol. 2, p. 841; Mukhtasar Basa’ir ad-Darajat, p. 117; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 52, p. 326.)

Baha'u'lah quotes this tradition in reference to the Station of the Bab.

Regards Tony

 

[muhammad_isa]

All the Messengers up to and Including Muhammad could only offer primary school lessons..

Oh come on !
Why would G-d not want to educate those before the Bahai messenger(s) ?

It's almost as if you are in an alternate universe.

 

[Ebionite]

The Quran says Mohammad is the final Prophet

No, that's your interpretation of what the seal of the prophets is. Seal can also mean a proof of authenticity.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Oh come on !
Why would G-d not want to educate those before the Bahai messenger(s) ?

It's almost as if you are in an alternate universe.

The tradition quoted makes logical sense. Basically humanity was not ready to think globally, and let's face it, many are still not ready to progess to global acceptance.

We can ask ourselves why everything changed in the 1800's? The Islamic tradition can be considered, as can Biblical verses.

The Bible offers that a time will come when Knowledge is Increased, Jesus said I have much more to say and a time would come when we will be guided unto all truth.

There are many graphs available on the net showing the same trend.

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, that's your interpretation of what the seal of the prophets is. Seal can also mean a proof of authenticity.

That is exactly what the seals were used for.

Regards Tony

 

[Dao Hao Now]

Science is based on the assumption that there objective observers exist, so it can't accept that experiments exist that show that consciousness can directly affect physical systems.

https://www.esalq.usp.br/lepse/imgs/conteudo_thumb/Consciousness-and-the-double-slit-interference-pattern-Six-experiments.pdf

I asked you a very simple question, which you didn’t answer.
I’ve prompted you twice since for that answer.
You have yet to answer.
Are you incapable or simply unwilling to answer a simple question?

The “study” you link to here has nothing to do with whether or not a qm “observer” is “conscious” or not …..
it attempts to determine if “consciousness” can alter the results of the double slit experiment.
Not whether the “observer” involved in the experiment is subjective.
Care to try again?

 

[Ebionite]

That is exactly what the seals were used for.

Regards Tony

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which [men] deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it [is] sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isaiah 29:11-12

An Angel came to him and asked him to read. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "I do not know how to read." The Prophet (ﷺ) added, "Then the Angel held me (forcibly) and pressed me so hard that I felt distressed. Then he released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he held me again and pressed me for the second time till I felt distressed. He then released me and asked me to read, but again I replied. 'I do not know how to read.'

Sahih al-Bukhari 4953 - Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh)) - كتاب التفسير - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

 

[Ebionite]

Are you incapable or simply unwilling to answer a simple question?

What matters is whether or not objectivity is real.