Why should i be Catholic?

[Katzpur]

Let me start you off by saying that the Rosary is a Catholic devotion it is a matter of private revelation. This means that it is not a matter of doctrine or dogma. The Church approves of many private revelations and by approval it just means that the they are not contrary to scripture or the doctrines of the faith. So although the Rosary is an important part of the lives of many Catholics one does not have to pray it or believe in it at all. The sacraments and the communion of saints are matters of public revelation they must be believed by all faithful Catholics. So if the Rosary is a problem or a stumbling block for you, then toss it out the way and worry about it later. Relatively speaking it is not important. Don't take that to mean that I think the Rosary is useless or anything like that, I make Rosaries and I pray the Rosary. But matters of public revelation which one needs to accept take primacy over matters of private revelation which one does not need to accept.

I didn't know that! It's always nice to pick up some new information.

 

[KPereira]

Marian apparitions, as with the Rosary, are matters of private revelation, in fact if I am not mistaken the Rosary was given to St. Dominic during a Marian apparition. So as far as the apparitions go you don’t have to believe in them to be a good Catholic either (although again some Catholics will disagree with this but it is the truth, it is private revelation it is not necessary it is like an extra benefit.).

Granted some Catholics might take Marian devotion too far, but that doesn’t mean that Marian devotion is wrong or anything, it just reflects that some Catholics are very devoted to her. And I think you make a valid question there as well why no Jesus parade? Back in the day they used to parade around with the blessed sacrament where did that go? Anyway I will just try to focus on why we pray to Mary as well as the saints as reflected in your 3rd question because you already seem to recognize that Mary is worthy of respect and honor as she is the mother of God.



All prayers must go through Jesus to the Father. But let us first discuss types of prayer and worship. Only God is worthy of worship in the strict sense. No one should be worshiping Mary or the saints. When we honor God and thank Him and such, we ought to be praying to Him. But then there are prayers that ask for God’s help or assistance. We ask for someone to get over a sickness or we ask God to help us overcome a problem or whatever. Now my mom has been on the parish prayer chain for many years. If someone in the church needs prayers they call someone on the prayer chain and each person has a certain person they are to call and soon all these people are praying for the needs or intentions. Now think of Mary and the saints as a sort of Heavenly prayer chain. At the wedding feast of Canna, when they ran out of wine, Mary when to Jesus and told him that they where out of wine she went to him with a problem and Jesus fixed it, turned water into wine because Mary asked him to even though He said His time had not yet arrived. So when you pray for something might as well get her to ask Jesus too because Jesus seem to listen to his Mother. Same with the saints. Technically a saint is anyone in heaven. The official canonized saints are the ones who the Church is willing to come out and say we are very sure that this person is in heaven. The saints, being in heaven with God are in a position to have the ear of Jesus, to ask Him to take care of your intention, just like Mary. One should never worship Mary or the saints but we should honor them and look up to them as examples of how to be proper Christians. And they are great people to ask to pray to Jesus for you because they are close to him.

I hope that helps, it is kind of complicated I guess and there is a lot more going on there then I have spoke of, but maybe this will help clear things up a bit.

You are clearing things up. So, we've established the Rosary, Mary, and saints are not essential to the Catholic faith, although they should certainly be respected. I anticipate a similar answer for the Holy Spirit Cushion question. But...God answers all prayers, regardless of whether we pray through Jesus, Mary, or saints. Sometimes that answer is not one which we like...but our prayers are answered. For me...it is simpler to pray through Jesus...

 

[Runlikethewind]

4. Sacramentals. One fine day, I see my sister bring this cushion into every bedroom in the house. This cushion had a dove sewn on it and it looked really pretty and all. It was supposed to represent the Holy Spirit. I later found out that my mother paid a sum of $14.95 for the Holy Spirit to supposedly enter my bedroom. Ummm...a little sacreligious, no? Does that not assume the Holy Spirit is worth money? I have an itch with Holy Water, too. At my church, St. Anthony's, there was Holy Water being sold for $2.00 a bottle. Now, Holy Water is a sacramental, no? A sacramental is an object that is supposed to bring us closer to God. Be closer to God for the low price of $2.00? Have the Holy Spirit enter your home for $14.95? In my humble opinion, the Catholic faith is being lost in things like this. My question is...whats with all the God-paraphenalia?

I don’t think that a picture of a dove in a pillow really contains the Holy Spirit. Having statues and pictures and crosses and other Catholic ‘stuff’ just helps us to remind ourselves to focus on God. I have pictures and crucifixes all over my room. When I look at Jesus up there it reminds me of how much He loved me. This is all well and good, and some of these things do cost money, so I guess there is a right way and a wrong way to go about this. If done without the proper reverence and respect it could very well be sacrilege.

For example, I pray to God that this $2 bottle of Holy Water is part of some kind of fund raiser, or it is the bottle that they are charging for (that sort of thing does cost a little bit of money to get) because you’re really not supposed to sell Holy Water I don’t think. The whole Idea just rubs me the wrong way. Every church I have ever been to would allow you to just go in with a bottle or a jar and fill it up with holy water and take it home for free as it should be. There had better be a very good reason for why this church of St Anthony’s is charging $2 a bottle, that is just plain wrong.

All this God-paraphernalia, as you call it, can be beneficial and assist in one’s spiritual development. But you are right, it can be easy to get lost in this sort of thing. In the end one should not judge the faith of the church so much on some of the practices of the faithful. If this sort of thing is a problem for you (and I can see how it can be $2 for holy water give me a break!) then try to see past it and look to the teachings of the faith because that is what is really important. It kind of goes back to your last question about Mary, don't judge devotion to Mary as wrong because some might be overly devoted to her, judge the merits of Marian devotion on their own terms. And if you feel courageous enough challenge someone about selling $2 holy water, be tactful about it, but ask someone in a position at the church what is up with selling something that should be free, maybe they have a good reason maybe not.

 

[Runlikethewind]

You are clearing things up. So, we've established the Rosary, Mary, and saints are not essential to the Catholic faith, although they should certainly be respected. I anticipate a similar answer for the Holy Spirit Cushion question. But...God answers all prayers, regardless of whether we pray through Jesus, Mary, or saints. Sometimes that answer is not one which we like...but our prayers are answered. For me...it is simpler to pray through Jesus...

Good I am glad to be of assistance! But don't get me wrong, I don't want to say that all these things are not important, but if you are having trouble with the faith the best thing to do is to boil it down to the bare essentials, those things that are most important and deal with those. All the other stuff will sort itself out one you establish a firm foundation on what is important.

 

[KPereira]

Good I am glad to be of assistance! But don't get me wrong, I don't want to say that all these things are not important, but if you are having trouble with the faith the best thing to do is to boil it down to the bare essentials, those things that are most important and deal with those. All the other stuff will sort itself out one you establish a firm foundation on what is important.

Well, you see...there is more to it than these 6 questions. These are just some of the main points. I have a couple questions about the solas...but I'll save those for another time.

 

[Runlikethewind]

5. Infant Baptism. Reading earlier in the thread, I saw something about 'the sooner one gets Baptised, the better.' Something along those lines. Now, that's all fine and dandy. BUT! As being a Catholic myself and baptised as an infant. Hell, as soon as I popped out of the womb, I was rushed to the nearest Catholic church. I grew up and went through all the sacraments. Didn't know why I was doing it. Well, my parents made me...and there is little you can do. Confirmation is supposed to be the sacrament where you confirm your beliefs. However, I felt as if I was FORCED to be part of the Catholic faith. I once joked around with my mother the possibility of me becoming a Protestant. Her reaction? 'YOU WERE BORN ROMAN CATHOLIC! YOU WILL STAY ROMAN CATHOLIC!' If that's not forcing someone to be a Catholic, I don't know what is! If I told my mother that I didn't want to go through Confirmation...what do you think her reaction would be? Well, there would be a lot of yelling and I would end up being Confirmed anyway. I think a lot of Catholic parents put tremendous amounts of pressure on their children to stay Catholic. I think it is a lot better to let your kid to grow up and find God on his own (with some parental guidance, of course..but not outright forcing). Why is it necessary that an infant has to be baptised?

I think I’ll just focus on why we baptize infants for now although you do raise some very interesting and good point in the rest of this question. Perhaps by focusing on that it might help with the rest.

The Catholic Church sees baptism as not primarily being for the purpose of forgiving actual sins committed, although that is a benefit of it if one is baptized as an adult. In any event, baptism does several things. First it washes away the stain of original sin which we are all born with. So even newborns have original sin so baptizing them is important. Another thing that baptism does is it leaves an indelible mark on the soul and unites on with the mystical body of Christ that is the Church. So when one is baptized, one is baptized into the Church. So in a sense your mom was right you where baptized a Catholic and you will always be a Catholic even if you stop practicing once your baptized that is it, you can’t do it again and you can’t take it away, once a Catholic always a Catholic. As for forcing one forcing their children to follow their religion...I have mixed opinions and it is getting late so I’ll just leave that can of worms closed. Hope that helps you to understand why infants are baptized, its primarily because all people are born into original sin and baptism washes that away.

 

[Runlikethewind]

Well, you see...there is more to it than these 6 questions. These are just some of the main points. I have a couple questions about the solas...but I'll save those for another time.

That is great I am more than happy to try and answer your questions. Knowledge is key to making an informed decision so don't just take my word for it on these questions, look around and try to learn more about Catholicism before you decide to abandon it. I would recommend reading both sides of the issues if you think you are up to it and if you are not prone to being mislead. Don't just rely on one source I might be able to recommend some good Catholic books or websites for you later to help you investigate. Here is one for you to check out its a good Catholic site
http://www.newadvent.com/
And if you think that you are intelligent enough to properly weigh the issues check out some protestant material too and learn for yourself so you can decide for your self. Just don't make a hasty decision, take your time. I am certain that God will not fault you if you truly search with an open heart to try and find His truth, and if you pray for His guidance and trust in Him, He will lead you to it.

 

[Runlikethewind]

So KPereira your last question on papal infallibility is an important one and I want to give it my full attention and a proper answer because it really gets to the heart of Catholic thought and Catholic faith. Unfortunately I have to call it a night (and leave you in suspense). I'll try and answer it sometime tomorrow. In the meantime gmelrod did make some good points about it.

Peace

 

[lombas]

Sin, babies, sin - this is all a bit bloated if you tell me.

 

[KPereira]

I think I’ll just focus on why we baptize infants for now although you do raise some very interesting and good point in the rest of this question. Perhaps by focusing on that it might help with the rest.

The Catholic Church sees baptism as not primarily being for the purpose of forgiving actual sins committed, although that is a benefit of it if one is baptized as an adult. In any event, baptism does several things. First it washes away the stain of original sin which we are all born with. So even newborns have original sin so baptizing them is important. Another thing that baptism does is it leaves an indelible mark on the soul and unites on with the mystical body of Christ that is the Church. So when one is baptized, one is baptized into the Church. So in a sense your mom was right you where baptized a Catholic and you will always be a Catholic even if you stop practicing once your baptized that is it, you can’t do it again and you can’t take it away, once a Catholic always a Catholic. As for forcing one forcing their children to follow their religion...I have mixed opinions and it is getting late so I’ll just leave that can of worms closed. Hope that helps you to understand why infants are baptized, its primarily because all people are born into original sin and baptism washes that away.

I understand what Baptism does...but I just feel a child should be able to choose what church he/she is part of at the right moment in their life. I grew up and am always around hardcore Catholics who kind of, in a sense, forced Catholicism on me. When I was younger, I didn't particularly care about church, and I'm sure most kids didn't either. I wasnt intelligent enough nor was I interested in searching for God at the time I was baptised. If you truly search, you will find God. But I think one should start that journey when they are informed and intelligent...not when they are fresh out of the womb. Not being incorporated into the Catholic church and then asking questions later. I think infant baptism is the cause of a few problems in the Catholic church. I mean..the majority of Catholics I have encountered in my existence on Earth blindly followed their faith...didn't even know what it was about. They were uninformed in nearly every aspect. Either that, or they were unwilling to find out more. And then, later, those people are the same people who force their children to stay Catholic. It is just a vicious cycle. I would rather be baptised when I discover God on my own than be baptised as a child and completely uninformed and uninterested in God.

 

[Runlikethewind]

You are clearing things up. So, we've established the Rosary, Mary, and saints are not essential to the Catholic faith, although they should certainly be respected.

I want to address this specific statement one more time and hope to tie it all together. If you are having difficulty with Catholic teachings you should sort out that which is unessential and build a foundation on what is essential. The essentials of the faith can be summed up in the creeds, the Nicene creed, the one we say at Mass every Sunday, and the Apostles creed (as well as others but those are the most importatn). The creeds sum up the essential of the faith. So in regard to Mary and the Saints and their essentialness to Catholic faith, there are certain aspects of them which are not essential, certain Marian or saintly devotions for example. But the Creed does say that Jesus “was born of the virgin Mary” and so it is essential to the Faith to believe in Mary’s virginity. It has also been defined that Mary was immaculately conceived (conceived without original sin, baptized at conception) and that she was assumed body and soul into heaven after she died. These are essential aspects of Mary. Marian apparitions at Fatima, Lourds, Medjugorje, etc are not essential and you don’t have to believe that. The apostles creed also says that we believe in the communion of saints. (Here is a link for further information on the communion of saints http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04171a.htm) So although it is not necessarily essential to the faith to pray to the saints it is essential to recognize the relationship between the Church glorified (the saints in heaven), the Church suffering (the souls in purgatory) and the Church militant ( we here on earth). Although it is not essential to pray to the saints a Catholic must recognize that intercessory prayer through the saints is a reality of our faith and that it is good and can be beneficial. So Mary and the Saints are essential to the Catholic faith but certain aspects of them are not and so one needs to sort through what is essential about them and what can be discarded.

Now I would also point to what is among the most important parts of the creed for Catholics. “We believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic Church”. All that the Church teaches rests on this statement, rests on the belief that the Catholic Church is the Church established by Jesus to continue His mission of spreading the gospel to all people on earth. And it ties into your last question on infallibility.

6. Infallibility. The Pope: leader of the Roman Catholic church. Now, that much I can cope with...but infallibility? For the love of God, the Pope is human like me or you! The Pope makes mistakes as well. To say the Pope is infallible is to say that the Pope is basically God on Earth, not making any mistakes, not being wrong, and is all good and holy. And that is a little contradictory to 'Have no other Gods before Me', I think. Maybe I'm misinformed here. Besides, I'm half on a rant lol. Are there any Bible verses supporting the infallibility of the Pope?

The infallibility of the Pope is an extension of the infallibility of the Church since the Pope is the vicar of Christ and in a sense a stand-in for God on earth (which does not mean that the pope is god on earth), it is the Church that is infallible. Christ established the Church when he commanded the apostles to go forth and baptize and to preach. In John chpt 16 Christ speaks to his apostles about His death and about how He will send the Holy Spirit to guide them after he is gone. Verse 13 says “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth.” And along the same lines in Chapter 14 Christ says in verse 26"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” (Other passages to this effect are Acts 15:28, Matt 28:20, 1 Tim 3:15, and remember to read these verses in the context of the entire chapter they are in) This is essential to the Catholic faith. Catholics put there faith in the Church, we believe that Christ established our Church and that the Holy Spirit guides our Church and protects it from error. This is essentially what infallibility is, the belief that the Holy Spirit guides and protects the Church in all that she teaches in an official capacity. We can put our faith in, and accept what the Church teaches, even if we cannot believe it, even if it is difficult to grasp, we can still accept it because it comes from the Church because our faith is in the Church and in the belief that the Church was established by Jesus and is protected by the Holy Spirit.

I understand what Baptism does...but I just feel a child should be able to choose what church he/she is part of at the right moment in their life. I grew up and am always around hardcore Catholics who kind of, in a sense, forced Catholicism on me. When I was younger, I didn't particularly care about church, and I'm sure most kids didn't either. I wasnt intelligent enough nor was I interested in searching for God at the time I was baptised. If you truly search, you will find God. But I think one should start that journey when they are informed and intelligent...not when they are fresh out of the womb. Not being incorporated into the Catholic church and then asking questions later. I think infant baptism is the cause of a few problems in the Catholic church.

Think of baptism and confirmation not as entry into the religion per se but as inoculation for the soul, spiritual booster shots. Its about preparing and strengthening one’s spirit. They are sacraments of initiation, doorways into the kingdom of God on earth, the mystical body of Christ They strengthen our soul by uniting us to Christ on a spiritual level. And contrary to popular belief, the sacrament of confirmation is not like some coming of age sacrament that you are supposed to choose, it is much more like baptism which is passive on the part of the recipient. It is up to you to decide if you want to live in that kingdom, to be a fruitful member of the body once you have been baptized and confirmed into it. You should try and make the distinction between the reception of these sacraments and the forcing of religion onto you by your parents. I agree with you that religion should not be forced on children by their parents. I speak from experience when I say this. My father was forceful in the practice of Catholicism and the result is that out of 5 children I am the only practicing Catholic. I think you are right when you say “But I think one should start that journey when they are informed and intelligent...not when they are fresh out of the womb” one cannot start the journey of faith until one is intelligent and informed. However, baptism and confirmation are not the beginnings of the journey as much as they are preparation for the journey is like your parents packing your bags so that you will have the tools needed to make the journey.

God does not want anyone to be forced into believing, that is no faith at all. God does not want blind obedience, I can see that you understand this. God wants us to follow Him and be obedient to Him because we love Him not because we feel we have to. God wants us to use the intellect and intelligence that He gave us to think with the Church.

You are so right when you say:

I mean..the majority of Catholics I have encountered in my existence on Earth blindly followed their faith...didn't even know what it was about. They were uninformed in nearly every aspect. Either that, or they were unwilling to find out more. And then, later, those people are the same people who force their children to stay Catholic. It is just a vicious cycle. I would rather be baptised when I discover God on my own than be baptised as a child and completely uninformed and uninterested in God.

The only thing is that baptism help prepare you to discover God and gives you the grace to find Him and to know Him and fall in love with Him. That is the first step. Once you have received the grace of baptism and confirmation the next step is to understand and to learn enough about your faith so that you can make an informed and intelligent decision on it so that you can fall in love with God through his Church. Those Catholics that you speak of who blindly follow the faith without learning about it, and who never even trying to inform themselves of it, have not fallen in love with God. I am not sure how old you are but I feel as though you are searching and that you are honest and intelligent enough to not follow a faith that makes on sense to you. This is great I have been there myself, I am still there in a sense. You need to keep learning and keep searching so that you can honestly make the choice for yourself because that is what God wants. I am not going to try and force Catholicism on anyone because I believe the truth of the faith stands on its own merits.

 

[Runlikethewind]

What I would suggest to you is to investigate the claim of the Catholic Church that it is the Church established by Christ and protected and guided by the Holy Spirit “one holy Catholic apostolic Church”. Everything that the Church teaches rests on this claim, if you cannot accept this claim then Catholicism has no authority to teach in the name of Christ. One big difference between Protestants and Catholics is that Catholics believe in the Church and the Church came before the bible, Protestants believe in the bible. Catholics, therefore, place the authority to teach in the name of Christ in the Church while Protestants, in general, place their authority to teach in the bible. In any event this is the foundation upon which all that the Catholic Church teaches rests. Without this the Church is nothing. So that is where I would suggest you begin your search, to lay your foundations of faith on the Church as the bride of Christ. Here is a good web article to get you started: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm

Good luck in your journey and if you have more questions I will do my best to try and help. I know I don’t communicate my understanding very well but I hope that you can use what I say as a springboard to send you off on the right path.

God Bless.