Why should I ignore myself?

[Draka]

Or rather my own experiences and personal spiritual revelations in favor of someone else's? Why should the religious opinions or stories in a book or of someone else who may or may not have lived long ago trump my own opinions and reasoning and revelations? Why should I even try to ignore myself in favor of you and your respective holy book? What possible reason would I have for doing so and why do you feel I should have to?

 

[Storm]

I'd like to know, myself!

 

[no-body]

To the contrary, you should examine yourself to the hilt if you want to know true spirituality. Every second of every moment in the NOW. Not a second before or after.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Or rather my own experiences and personal spiritual revelations in favor of someone else's? Why should the religious opinions or stories in a book or of someone else who may or may not have lived long ago trump my own opinions and reasoning and revelations? Why should I even try to ignore myself in favor of you and your respective holy book? What possible reason would I have for doing so and why do you feel I should have to?

You see...this is what happens when you give women-folk the freedom to get too uppity - they start thinking they can think for themselves. God done put men in charge for a reason.

 

[Draka]

You see...this is what happens when you give women-folk the freedom to get too uppity - they start thinking they can think for themselves. God done put men in charge for a reason.

I know a man who is going to be smacked with a tuna soon.



right




about




now :tuna::curtsy:

 

[Storm]

Because sometimes some people have a better grasp of things than you. At the same time, when you let others do the leg work, you can build off their experiences making deeper revelations come that much easier for you.

You would never possibly be able to invent the internal combustion engine all by yourself seeing as how you'd have to both invent math as well as cover hundreds of years of discoveries in chemistry and physics first. Why should you expect religion and spirituality to be any different?

It's one thing to learn from others while forming your own conclusions.

It's quite another to ignore your own experience in favor of blind faith in someone else, which is what Draka's talking about.

 

[Orias]

Or rather my own experiences and personal spiritual revelations in favor of someone else's? Why should the religious opinions or stories in a book or of someone else who may or may not have lived long ago trump my own opinions and reasoning and revelations? Why should I even try to ignore myself in favor of you and your respective holy book? What possible reason would I have for doing so and why do you feel I should have to?

:biglaugh:

I suspect you already know the answer to this.

 

[Draka]

Because sometimes some people have a better grasp of things than you. At the same time, when you let others do the leg work, you can build off their experiences making deeper revelations come that much easier for you.

You would never possibly be able to invent the internal combustion engine all by yourself seeing as how you'd have to both invent math as well as cover hundreds of years of discoveries in chemistry and physics first. Why should you expect religion and spirituality to be any different?

When it comes to spirituality, to religious knowledge, what makes anyone think they are anymore knowledgeable than anyone else enough to tell them what to believe though? How are they any "better"? It's one thing to find out what others believe and read up on theories and such and come to your own conclusions, but quite another when someone is outright telling you that all you have learned and experienced is wrong because their book says so.

 

[Oneatatime]

You may be wrong

 

[Storm]

You may be wrong

So may everyone else.

 

[Storm]

Your argument is weak. Sometimes wrong is wrong. Period. If your logical deduction says ostriches have no bones in their neck and a book says otherwise, who's in the right? There can only be one answer. It all boils down to trust. It is up to your personal experiences and deductions to figure out whether or not to trust that holy book.

Dude.... that's what she said.

 

[Oneatatime]

So may everyone else.

You may be wrong, they may be wrong, everybody may be wrong.

This leads onto the real problem for revelation which is that in order to determine which was is true, assuming we don't just kill everyone who disagrees with us or simple agree to disagree, we have to resort to relying on our own mental faculties to decide what is correct which we could have done from the start without revelation.

I suppose that you could argue that each individual revelation was intended to lead us to the conclusion reached rather than be treated as definitive statements in themselves but I don't see this being a popular view amongst those who see themselves as recipients of Gods wisdom.

 

[Sunstone]

Or rather my own experiences and personal spiritual revelations in favor of someone else's? Why should the religious opinions or stories in a book or of someone else who may or may not have lived long ago trump my own opinions and reasoning and revelations? Why should I even try to ignore myself in favor of you and your respective holy book? What possible reason would I have for doing so and why do you feel I should have to?

Communist. Why do you hate America, Draka?

 

[Cain]

Or rather my own experiences and personal spiritual revelations in favor of someone else's? Why should the religious opinions or stories in a book or of someone else who may or may not have lived long ago trump my own opinions and reasoning and revelations? Why should I even try to ignore myself in favor of you and your respective holy book? What possible reason would I have for doing so and why do you feel I should have to?

Because, if you are one of the Sheeple, then you will Need to believe in something greater than YourSelf, to put the blame on all things contrary to your Sheepleness in the hands of another figment of your imagination, to justify delusion and to condone Evil & violent acts against your fellow Man. :help:

 

[Willamena]

You may be wrong

About this topic, she's the only one who can't be wrong.

 

[Draka]

Your argument is weak. Sometimes wrong is wrong. Period. If your logical deduction says ostriches have no bones in their neck and a book says otherwise, who's in the right? There can only be one answer.

You think my argument is weak, yet yours is outright wrong. In matters of religion and spirituality there need not necessarily be one answer. There may be many. There may be none. There may only be guesses. That being the case, what makes one stance or belief any better than another just by some claim of default?

It all boils down to trust. It is up to your personal experiences and deductions to figure out whether or not to trust that holy book.

I do believe this was my point to begin with, or did you not understand it at all? It very much IS up to my own personal experiences and deductions to figure out what I believe. So why should I be expected to fore-go my own reasoning and logic and forget my experiences and just take what someone else believes as fact? How can I be expected to chuck all I personally know out the window and blindly accept something which goes against everything I've reasoned out for myself? Better yet, why blindly accept any holy book about Divine nature/deity when I can just access that information directly for myself? Why is an intermediary even assumed to be required? And why should I trust that intermediary?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

You think my argument is weak, yet yours is outright wrong. In matters of religion and spirituality there need not necessarily be one answer. There may be many. There may be none. There may only be guesses. That being the case, what makes one stance or belief any better than another just by some claim of default?

I do believe this was my point to begin with, or did you not understand it at all? It very much IS up to my own personal experiences and deductions to figure out what I believe. So why should I be expected to fore-go my own reasoning and logic and forget my experiences and just take what someone else believes as fact? How can I be expected to chuck all I personally know out the window and blindly accept something which goes against everything I've reasoned out for myself? Better yet, why blindly accept any holy book about Divine nature/deity when I can just access that information directly for myself? Why is an intermediary even assumed to be required? And why should I trust that intermediary?

You shouldn't have to ignore yourself, but you shouldn't ignore others' beliefs as well. Not saying you should accept them, but you should understand them and make sense of them. Not saying you don't but just noting.

 

[Draka]

You shouldn't have to ignore yourself, but you shouldn't ignore others' beliefs as well. Not saying you should accept them, but you should understand them and make sense of them. Not saying you don't but just noting.

Not saying to ignore others' beliefs. In fact, I believe I said that learning what others believe and other views in the world can help you discern what you believe. It's when others expect you to drop everything you know or believe in favor of their beliefs that there is a problem.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Not saying to ignore others' beliefs. In fact, I believe I said that learning what others believe and other views in the world can help you discern what you believe. It's when others expect you to drop everything you know or believe in favor of their beliefs that there is a problem.

Hmm, I never really had too much experience with that problem... I have seen it on sites like Yahoo Answers, but has it been going on in the forum?

 

[CaptainBritain]

I am un-spiritual for the most part, but I look at it like this, if a prayer reaches God without need for outiside human assistance the then God or whatever spirit, pantheon you follow will message you back in same manner,

Books are man made and they dont claim to be otherwise even by the authors, the phrase "inspired by God" gets used, God never held the pen

If you are inspired by God/gods/spirit/pantheon then your view is just as valid as any of those authors.

People can believe otherwise but it has no basis.